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Alex Mercer vs. Natsumi

How in-character is it for Natsumi to use BFR and Transmutation?
 
She always leads with Transmutation? Then I think this is a stomp.
 
Basically, she can also use her BFR to send Mercer to the mirror world at distance because both abilities works by the same weapon.
 
Hmm... The only reason it's a stomp is because Alex's gas won't reach her by the time he's transmuted. Considering Natsumi's range is 2km because of SBA, Alex can't do anything (as his range is MUCH less than that). How about establishing a starting distance?
 
Crap. I just remembered this isn't Prototype 2 Alex so he doesn't lead with gassing.

Put them at around 10 meters. Alex should be able to retort with his abilities at that distance.
 
Alright. Now Alex has win-cons due to being in range (probably has more): Absorption, His devastators, Whipfist, Shockwaves, etc.

However, I believe in quality over quantity. And Natsumi's win-cons are in greater quality, as it should be easier to Transmutate due to it being thought-based, while Alex's are action-based (some are pretty instantaneous despite being action-based though). Alex can't resist Transmutation, and Natsumi leads with it (but it's not passive).

I'll be voting for Natsumi.
 
Migue79 said:
Crap. I just remembered this isn't Prototype 2 Alex so he doesn't lead with gassing.

Put them at around 10 meters. Alex should be able to retort with his abilities at that distance.
Click to expand...
Mercer actually leads with gassing in his Low-7C key. I've explained this with Pen, so I will explain this to you now:

"...arguments involving Mercer's Low 7-C key not liable for gassing. While it is otherwise pretty logical, I have to say this:

Alex Mercer's Low 7-C is in fact still liable for gassing.

"Prototype 1 end-game" can range from the end of the Prototype of game to the Prototype comics or even the time when Mercer started the infection (which takes place before the beginning of the Prototype 2 game). Though would still classify as "Prototype 1 end-game" as that takes place when Prototype 1 game ends and before the beginning of Prototype 2.

Plus, we don't know how strong Mercer got in Prototype 2, and his 7-C key was estimated from consuming several Evolved. Mid-game Heller being comparable or superior to an Evolved would still put him at Low 7-C (which is only superior to baseline Low 7-C), and Pre-Evolved Mercer stomping mid-game Heller would put him at somewhere beyond baseline Low 7-C. It probably still wouldn't solidly be 7-C key until we get to Mercer consuming 8 Evolved and the scaling from that.

So yeah, Mercer's Low 7-C key should still like to gas a lot like his 7-C key. It's only his 8-A (his Prototype 1 early-game) key that he isn't liable to gas."

Anyways, I've just woke up and are going to prepare to go to my school next. I'm going to wait for more input on this thread and get back to this soon enough.
 
actually it mid game heller is around 7C via consumeing at least 5 evolved and a goliath so yeah

im still work on the exact ap so be tuned for that it'll be out soon im just going through P1 to check out all the consumtions to make it a defenetive list of absorptions

also potential high 7C heller and mercer coming up
 
Ionliosite said:
Is Mercer's gas thought-based, because Natusmi's transmutation is.
Click to expand...
Depends on what you mean by "thought-based". It is thought-based in the sense that it can be unleashed out of his body once he wills such due to how his powers and physiology works (but we only have one scene of him gassing on-screen, so we're not entirely sure of the method of how he does it, but we can scale his method of gassing to his ability to control all traces of his targets in existence down to the molecular level, which presumably works at a distance and via thought), but it isn't thought-based in the sense that the effect is already achieved once the thought occurs (more like in the sense sense that the attack is unleashed rather than already achieving the result).

Speaking of thought-based abilities, how long does Natsumi's transmutation take effect once she uses it? Does it take a few seconds to transmute? Does it take a minute? Etc.
 
Sir sun man said:
actually it mid game heller is around 7C via consumeing at least 5 evolved and a goliath so yeah

im still work on the exact ap so be tuned for that it'll be out soon im just going through P1 to check out all the consumtions to make it a defenetive list of absorptions

also potential high 7C heller and mercer coming up
Click to expand...
Well, I'm looking forward to that. But I don't think we should put this thread on hold yet until you've published that soon-to-be CRT at least.
 
Ionliosite said:
It takes no time, she thinks and boom, transmutated.
Click to expand...
Yeah, then I'm not sure how she would go.

Would she be able to deal with the incoming viral gasses that is left over once she transmutes him? Because from what I can tell from Natsumi's profile, her Transmutation undoes itself once she loses concentration or is unconscious, however in this case she would be converted into a mindless infected or is dead once she gets infected by the viral gasses.
 
Ionliosite said:
She can transmutate attacks too iirc.
Click to expand...
So, has she shown to transmute gaseous matter too? It would be nice to know if she has showings of being able to do that (because gasses can be very wide and amorphous, and could also separate from each other, so I'm not sure if she would just transmute parts of the gasses or if she does it to the entire thing).

While Mercer probably wouldn't be able to gas once he is stuck being transmuted into something else, he could at least unleash his gasses before or right when the transmutation occurs (which should be in—character for him to do as gassing is pretty much his leading move against non-infected enemies).
 
<Natsumi Transmuting instantly

What

Also Highly doubt that Mercer, a being who can manipulate the entirety of his being down to a molecular level, can't manipulate his body back to a normal state afterwards
 
Even if it was, Mercer can probably manipulate his biology to fix that depending on how it works.
 
Schnee One said:
<Natsumi Transmuting instantly

What

Also Highly doubt that Mercer, a being who can manipulate the entirety of his being down to a molecular level, can't manipulate his body back to a normal state afterwards
Click to expand...
Oh yeah, I've basically forgot about the fact that Mercer's molecular control applies to his body as well as long as he doesn't get atomised (or destroyed/broken down to a smaller scale than that).

...So does Natsumi have any scans of having her Transmutation operating at a atomic level or over?
 
Feats of manipulating their biology back to a normal form? Because that's normal.

Transmuting something into say, a Cake, would help against someone that can't manipulate their biology in any way, issue is Alex can manipulate his body from Blacklight perfectly fine, especially with infectious gasses spreading through the air.

Lastly, Natsumi using a spirit on a normal looking dude in a hoody who looks literally nothing like a spirit seems incredibly off.
 
Infectious blacklight going through the air can help but yeah, I won't stretch it to that extent.

Granted, Natsumi using it immediately on a normal human seems odd.
 
EmperorDoom25 said:
Huh? You do know that Mercer would lose his normal biology once he turns into a candy or a vegetable, right?
Click to expand...
The problem is, we don't know the exact scale of Natsumi's Transmutation. Blacklight did real fine operating at the molecular level (which Mercer has control over, and he is Blacklight itself), and controlling all the molecules of the targets it infects in existence.

So Natsumi's Transmutation scale on being atomic scale (or over) or not is important here.
 
Schnee One said:
Lastly, Natsumi using a spirit on a normal looking dude in a hoody who looks literally nothing like a spirit seems incredibly off.
Click to expand...
Not going to argue much on this thread but this sentence is extremely false. Firstly, Spirit or not, it was her starting move whatever the opponent, even against robots or human, secondly, it's her unique ability (yeah power mimicry is a part of this ability) or you want to argue about BFR that hasn't being used in fight? so using her usual power against an opponent seem indeed good.
 
X.

Let's see, why Natsumi wouldn't use her transmutation in Mercer? She has used it on AST members, so she has used it on humans.

Also, how is Mercer returning from becoming into an object? He won't have his normal biology. How is Mercer going to think while transmutated?
 
EmperorDoom25 said:
Does Mercer have feats of overcoming Transmutation? Thats the real question here
Click to expand...
Not unless you count beings similar to Blacklight trying to consume Mercer from the inside and out like the Supreme Hunter (which Mercer later resists, and beings of Blacklight or similar were shown to absorb even inanimate objects, which the Supreme Hunter is as it's designed from Alex Mercer's own DNA), Greene attempting to control Mercer (which Mercer resists, and Greene's Redlight virus has feats of infecting and taking control over inanimate objects such as entire buildings), and some other extreme Biological Manipulation stuff. While those aren't exactly "Transmutation", those feats are pretty much a form of Matter Manipulation anyways which is similar enough.

And it is pretty much shown that Mercer has control over Blacklight (and what Blacklight makes contact with) at the Molecular scale anyways.
 
EmperorDoom25 said:
Thats all just Biological/Matter Manip
Click to expand...
I mean, Petrification is considered to be able to get resisted by having resistance to Matter Manipulation, so I don't see how the same doesn't apply to Transmutation as well as long as the Transmutation is matter-based (rather than doing stuff like transmuting matter into pure energy). If Natsumi hasn't shown to transmute matter into pure energy, I don't see how the resistances shouldn't scale.

Plus, the Biological/Matter Manipulation stuff does sort of include Transmutation as well, seeing as how Greene was able to convert entire buildings into infected bulbous hives (and being able to make a building wall crumble into basically dust with her power) anyways and Mercer just straight up resisted her influence.
 
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