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Alduin Upgrade

NORFie

NORFie

56
3
Yo, I was looking through the pages of the Elder Scrolls and noticed something. Alduin(and the Last Dragonborn) are both capped out at Universe+ while the Daedra are at "Low Complex Multiversal, likely higher" and I'm not sure exactly why. Not only did Alduin literally create the Daedric Prince known as Mehrunes Dagon from a leaper demon(implying he'd hold power or higher status higher than the Daedra. He also devours the entire Aurbis, containing Aetherius, the outer realms, oblivion(the realm of the daedra), etc. He also even has a line in Skyrim if you combat him while wearing Daedric Armor, where he states "even the daedra fear me".

Overall, I feel that if you're not going to give him an adequate level of strength, you could at least rank him above the Daedra based on the multiple accounts I referenced.
 
I really don't see any reason to assume Alduin devours the entire Aurbis, considering the entire point of how Kalpas work is that linear time is destroyed at the end of each one and everyone returns to the Dawn Era - linear time itself is exclusive to the Mundus, with the Dawn being the mythic state of existence in which everything outside of it exists in.

Alduin also didn't create the Daedric Prince Mehrunes Dagon, no. He transformed the Leaper Demon King into Dagon the Destroyer, but what turned him into a Daedric Prince were the most likely the Magne-Ge.
 
Alduin literally states in Skyrim if you battle him while wearing Daedric Armlr, "Even the Daedric fear me". It's also stated that he devours all of the gods(which are apart of the Aurbis).
 
That's a single vague statement that doesn't translate to him devouring the entire Aurbis, and it isn't too far-fetched considering Alduin is stronger than most Daedra anyways.

Do you have a source for that?
 
They'd have a reason to fear him considering that they are also devoured along with Oblivion lol. There's supporting evidence towards all of the gods being devoured along with the kalpa and changed in the next. For instance, 36 Lessons of Vivec, he references Molag Bal as the Daedric Prince of the Dreugh in what is seemingy a previous Kalpa: "When the dreughs ruled the world, the Daedroth Prince Molag Bal had been their chief. He took a different shape then, spiny and armored and made for the sea. " Same in the Song of Pelinal, Umaril's father was referenced to have been a god in a previous kalpa: "and he listed his bloodline in the Ayleidoon and spoke of his father, a god of the [previous kalpa's] World-River and taking great delight in the heavy-breathing of Pelinal who had finally bled..."

This would imply the changing of roles for gods between Kalpas due to them being devoured.
 
Molag Bal most likely ascended to Godhood through some unknown means, rather than him being a Dreugh-King existing as some inherent characteristic of the previous Kalpa, especially since Michael Kirkbride implies it (or what is left of it) is still around as an adjacent universe for some reason.

The 2nd Second Guide to the Empire also implies the Daedric Princes are very much constant throughout the Kalpas. So, yeah, you're gonna need more evidence than that.
 
Well, I mean I guess. Finding scans for Elder Scrolls isn't exactly easy due to the extent at which the lore goes. I just find it illogical that as a part of the Aka-Tusk, Alduin would be so weak by comparison to Auri-el and Akatosh. Again, I'm positive in seeing a text stating that Alduin devours all of the gods but probably couldn't find it if I attempted.

Hasn't Alduin literally fought Lorkhan/Shor on two separate occasions? How would that be possible if he didn't scale to him to any extent.
 
No? Shor is also dead same as Lorkhan because he is merely how Nords view Lorkhan. Lol
 
So many things wrong with this thread.

First of all the Alduin and Dagon shit happened before Dagon became an actual Daedric Prince. If you look at the Mythic Dawn's commentaries, it states that the Magna ge are responsible for Dagon becoming a prince. Alduin simply banished him to Oblivion.

Second of all, it is never even implied Alduin is affecting the aurbis. He was stated to be devouring Nirn and resetting the Kalpa. The Kalpa is localized to Mundus and doesn't reach any further, leaving the planes of Oblivion and Aetherius untouched. Plus the fact it has to do with mainly linear time, which of course The Princes and The Divines transcend.

"Even the Daedra fear me" is a very vague statement because, Daedra doesn't apply only to the princes. They can also apply to Demi-Princes and the Dremora, which are much weaker than an actual Prince.

Shor is merely a Nordic aspect of Lorkhan. The real Lorkhan had his heart cut out, and his body was turned into Masser and Secunda.
 
Okay, so if Mundus is created by a collaboration of basically boundless and eternal spirits, some of which giving entire parts of themselves to its creation, becoming the platonic concepts, and others becoming the laws of nature in the realm. Why isn't the realm of Mundus considered an Outerversal realm? Then Alduin devours Mundus, or its timeline, why is that just Universal+?
 
Mundus' time is linear, that's the whole point of the Kalpa. It makes time linear, and dragon breaks can cause a non linear interruption in the timeline. Devouring linear time does not make you outerversal.
 
Large Size (At least Type 2 normally. At least Type 5 when eating the World)

Which would imply that he's devouring Mundus as a whole and not 'just' its time.
 
NORFie said:
Large Size (At least Type 2 normally. At least Type 5 when eating the World)
Which would imply that he's devouring Mundus as a whole and not 'just' its time.
Click to expand...
Type 5 is Planetary Size. Nirn is a planetary construct. Mundus is a multiverse much larger than Nirn which contains other planets and stars.
 
EmperorRorepme said:
Don't really get that. Nirn is comsidered to be at least a 4th dimensional realm here so why does he have Type 5 from consuming the entirety?
Click to expand...
Nirn physically is a planetary construct. However it contains it's own timeline. Theres a cosmology thread i'm sure that explains the metaphysics of the verse in greater detail. Lemme go find it.
 
This topic has been brought up a hundred times I feel like. Why not just add a note with something along the lines of

"Do not try to upgrade Alduin based on his fight with Dagon in the "The Seven Fights of The Aldudagga" because that was before he became the Daedric Prince Mehrunes Dagon. And his fight with Shor, because Shor is a mythopoetic echo of Talos, and not Talos himself."

Or something.
 
Ogbunabali said:
This topic has been brought up a hundred times I feel like. Why not just add a note with something along the lines of
"Do not try to upgrade Alduin based on his fight with Dagon in the "The Seven Fights of The Aldudagga" because that was before he became the Daedric Prince Mehrunes Dagon. And his fight with Shor, because Shor is a mythopoetic echo of Talos, and not Talos himself."

Or something.
Click to expand...
Shor was not the nordic vesion of lorkan?
 
TOAAPRESENCE1 said:
Ogbunabali said:
This topic has been brought up a hundred times I feel like. Why not just add a note with something along the lines of
"Do not try to upgrade Alduin based on his fight with Dagon in the "The Seven Fights of The Aldudagga" because that was before he became the Daedric Prince Mehrunes Dagon. And his fight with Shor, because Shor is a mythopoetic echo of Talos, and not Talos himself."

Or something.
Click to expand...
Shor was not the nordic vesion of lorkan?
Click to expand...
He is. The elven spelling of Shor is Lorkhan, further solidifying it.
 
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