Alduin upgrade?

[Janglesthemonkles]

"when the dreughs ruled the world, the Daedroth Prince Molag Bal had been their chief."

-Sermon 28.

Vivec recalls a previous Kalpa in which Molag bal had a different role entirely, and sense Alduin resets the Kalpa, wouldn't this make him comparable to the Princes?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

No, that's not exactly what happens.

 

[Janglesthemonkles]

Elaborate then.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Considering that the Daedric Princes are implied to remain mostly constant throughout the Kalpas, and are able to actually remember past ones in the 2nd Pocket Guide to the Empire, I think it is far more likely that Molag Bal's transition from being a Tyrannic Dreugh-King to a Daedric Prince was due to him ascending to Godhood through some unknown means, not because of differences between Kalpas.

 

[Janglesthemonkles]

I don't believe it is ever implied he was a Dreugh king in the current Kalpa, an answer for that could simply be that Molag bal is the only established prince that was different in a previous time, I haven't fully read the 2nd guide to the empire yet can you quote that statement?

 

[Ultima_Reality]

When Reman's efforts were finally revealed, there was a large discomfort throughout his sovereignties and even outright dissent in the Elder Council. These iconoclasts feared daedric vexation for unritualized trepass into the Void, and perhaps rightly so. However, this was all quickly dissolved when the Sixteen-Plus Princes of Tumult lent their nymic oaths in their first display of coalition since the Fall of Lyg in the previous kalpa. Conjecture points to some machinations of Nocturnal, who took on her mantle of Ur-Dra of Oblivion, and it was by her primogeniture that Reman was able to pursue his cosmic acquisitions without further censure.

This implies that the Daedric Princes were present in the Past Kalpa, and were actually the same ones that we see in the current Kalpa.

 

[Janglesthemonkles]

When Reman's efforts were finally revealed, there was a large discomfort throughout his sovereignties and even outright dissent in the Elder Council. These iconoclasts feared daedric vexation for unritualized trepass into the Void, and perhaps rightly so. However, this was all quickly dissolved when the Sixteen-Plus Princes of Tumult lent their nymic oaths in their first display of coalition since the Fall of Lyg in the previous kalpa. Conjecture points to some machinations of Nocturnal, who took on her mantle of Ur-Dra of Oblivion, and it was by her primogeniture that Reman was able to pursue his cosmic acquisitions without further censure.

This implies that the Daedric Princes were present in the Past Kalpa, and were actually the same ones that we see in the current Kalpa.

I just realized we have the same pfp lol. Anyways, yeah, the princes were original spirits as well no? It doesn't quite mean they are the exact same princes as the one we see in the current Kalpa, not to mention the Kalpa in which Molag was the chief is unspecfied.

 

[Janglesthemonkles]

Sorry if I am being unorthodox, I am at school rn.

 

[Janglesthemonkles]

Also wasn't Umaril's daddy a god in the previous Kalpa or somethin?

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Yeah, but this paragraph heavily implies they don't really change between Kalpas, save for Mortals ascending to Godhood every now and then, and are actually able to remember previous ones, so my point still stands: Molag Bal going from a Tyrannic Dreugh-King to a Daedric Prince was most likely due to him ascending to Godhood through unknown methods, not because of inherent differences between the Kalpas.

It actually is, there are several hints pointing towards Molag Bal having originated in the Past Kalpa, where Lyg existed and all was under the rule of the Dreughs.

He's also probably Umaril's dad, yea

 

[Janglesthemonkles]

Yeah, but this paragraph heavily implies they don't really change between Kalpas, save for Mortals ascending to Godhood every now and then, and are actually able to remember previous ones, so my point still stands: Molag Bal going from a Tyrannic Dreugh-King to a Daedric Prince was most likely due to him ascending to Godhood through unknown methods, not because of inherent differences between the Kalpas.
It actually is, there are several hints pointing towards Molag Bal having originated in the Past Kalpa, where Lyg existed and all was under the rule of the Dreughs.

I'm not really seeing the implication besides the narrator mentioning that they worked together in the previous Kalpa, which could be or not be the exact same princes, and they even mention that There was 16 Princes still, meaning Molag still existed as a prince.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Sixteen-plus

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

You're also looking at manifest metaphors literally, which may be a problem. Really, numbers and causality are ideals that don't apply to the gods.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Other than the text referring to "Sixteen-Plus" Princes, the implication is there due to the way the phrase is structured:

However, this was all quickly dissolved when the Sixteen-Plus Princes of Tumult lent their nymic oaths in their first display of coalition since the Fall of Lyg in the previous kalpa.

The "Sixteen-Plus Princes of Tumult" are the participants to which the paragraph is referring to, and "Their" is acting as a possessive pronoun which refers to them collectively. It wouldn't make sense for the phrase to be structured that way if the pronoun "They" was referring to some unknown, past deities that we don't know about, rather, it is referring to the participants of the event being described (In this case the Display of Nymic Oaths)

 

[ShivaShakti]

(Keep in mind Jangles has been banned from many servers for his fuckery)

 

[KongKing23]

Mannimarco and Arkay respectively became Low 1-C Aedra/Daedra-like beings shows that Molag Bal became one is no surprise to anybody. Hell, Divayth Fyr could have been one too but he decided that being a god is boring as Clavicus Vile once stated.

 

[Janglesthemonkles]

LMAO, this rat Kira slandering my name once again. Sad you can't face me proper because your putrid little ass is shook at the idea of confrontation.

 

[Janglesthemonkles]

(Keep in mind Jangles has been banned from many servers for his fuckery)

Stop ducking me you little rodent and I will fully expose your mentally challenged ass.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Yeah you're banned.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

(Keep in mind Jangles has been banned from many servers for his fuckery)

Stop ducking me you little rodent and I will fully expose your mentally challenged ass.

Nani?? (Original)