Akira Tendou Vs A Giant Cockroach (1-8-0) (CONCLUDED)

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

How good is its stealth? It doesnt seem to be as OP on the profile like ur making it out to be. You're implying to me here the cockroach could do the batman disappear act even tho they start off facing each other.

A check result of 20 in the Spot skill can detect invisibility.

The Giant Cockroach has a natural +10 modifier, on top of its Dexterity (18 = +4), making a +14. Using the take 10 mechanic (meaning, the average result on a d20, representing the "typical" and "safe" capability of a creature), the cockroach surpasses the DC 20 Spot check for detecting invisibility.

Quite literally, the cockroach hides better than someone with the ability to go invisible.

Normally, being an animalistic creature, this wouldn't be its baseline strategy to employ. However, you made it bloodlusted. Its best strategy is abusing its stealth here. Specially on a closed building.

So asking again: What's stopping it from continually ambushing Akira here?

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

The cockroach is medium, which translates to its maximum length being 8 feet, and minimum being 4 feet. Most often you'd be looking at 5-6. Such a creature would have no more a problem navigating the inside of a building than Akira would performing acrobatics. It is most certainly smaller by volume than a human.

1. Hmm i see. Damn thats a big boy, He's longer than a Nile Crocodile. I thought it was some 13 feet long creature ngl. Since the average Cockroach is 5-6 feet, it should be relative to Akira in Height as Akira is 5'9.
2. The creature is NOT as big as I thought it would be. Crushers are shown be far taller than akira's whole team with their literal legs being around the same height as the team with the giant crusher being on a whole nother level, its surface area alone far outclasses any Giant Cockroach (Its probably tens of meters ngl). That being said along with these creatures being more intelligent than this cockroach along with sheer size difference, akira using ANPR easily dodged and outpaced attacks from these creatures, no one in his team was hit, while one normal crusher took out a secret military force that are known to create Bioweapons. Crushers are Bioweapons created from various different viruses along with dna from other creatures, as such its evident they'd be superior to a natural organism especially a cockroach. The cockroach even with flight and decent acrobattics will not match akira's own acrobattics, ANPR and massive skill difference.

A check result of 20 in the Spot skill can detect invisibility.

The Giant Cockroach has a natural +10 modifier, on top of its Dexterity (18 = +4), making a +14. Using the take 10 mechanic (meaning, the average result on a d20, representing the "typical" and "safe" capability of a creature), the cockroach surpasses the DC 20 Spot check for detecting invisibility.

Quite literally, the cockroach hides better than someone with the ability to go invisible

I could say the same for crushers that akira combatted against have the same capability with their stealth. One crusher ambushed and killed literal several military force men who were actively shooting at it, and couldnt even see it despite the creature being massive. (The scan depicts the crusher as invisible to them as we literally cant see what slashes them along with the dark imagery over it). The cockroach as how you depict would have similar stealth to the crushers.

Normally, being an animalistic creature, this wouldn't be its baseline strategy to employ. However, you made it bloodlusted. Its best strategy is abusing its stealth here. Specially on a closed building.

Would that really be a move of it while bloodlusted? If its just a massive cockroach, wouldnt stealth be applicable when its actively stalking a prey to ambush it while having a cool state? In this case, i see the cockroach just going on a all out rampage especially when starved so it would rush akira to grab him and kill him just as any animal would in a state of bloodlust and desperation from hunger, they'd rush to eat any moving thing. It wouldnt have the patience and intelect to get into stealth to capture its prey while on the verge of near death from starvation. All this said IF the cockroach is just a oversized irl one, as bloodlusted and starved animals dont resort to ambush in the wild depending on which (this is a insect and so dont post links regarding apex predators like lions or tigers doing this as they're obviously more vast in intellect), they simply rush without haste hoping it can get its claws, hands or paws on its victims to rip them apart to eat them alive.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Btw im switching back my vote to akira, the cockroaches stealth shouldnt be a problem as it wouldnt be in character for it to do aswell as akira has dealt with stealth from greater foes than this cockroach. The flight argument stands but it wont be a problem as it flies at the same speed as akira can escape it to fire shots aswell as... it doesnt have the mobility entailed, it doesnt have acrobattics on its profile, just surface scaling which ive already stated why it works like that;

The roach climbs walls normally similarly to how normal irl roaches do, via retractables in their legs just like other insects.

The scan also state it only resorts to surface scaling when its threatened or rushed, which we know with prior knowledge of its stench, akira isnt gonna rush the monster. Being bloodlusted from starvation wouldnt cause the cockroach to be threatened BY AKIRA either.

The stench is now known by akira which now means he can hold his breath all he wants with normal humans being able to hold their breaths for 1-2 minutes apparently (he already has a headstart beyond the stench's range), while running away from the cockroach who is actively pursuing him with flight or movement. He'll use his wall running and high jumping to manuever around the skyscraper giving him an edge in mobility and agility which can prove worthy of escaping the cockroach as he actively uses these quirks to escape and close distances from zombies which have various speeds. All this is done while shooting at the cockroach and figuring out its weakpoints in less than 59 seconds to take it down (it could figure out a bioweapons weakpoint in that timeframe so a cockroach its familiar with would be easier and less time consuming). Ive also given the several weakpoints of a cockroach which arent as durable as being made out and i conjure that bullets indeed have piercing damage that surpasses the tier 9 range according to what ive seen across the site.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Would that really be a move of it while bloodlusted? If its just a massive cockroach, wouldnt stealth be applicable when its actively stalking a prey to ambush it while having a cool state? In this case, i see the cockroach just going on a all out rampage especially when starved so it would rush akira to grab him and kill him just as any animal would in a state of bloodlust and desperation from hunger, they'd rush to eat any moving thing. It wouldnt have the patience and intelect to get into stealth to capture its prey while on the verge of near death from starvation. All this said IF the cockroach is just a oversized irl one, as bloodlusted and starved animals dont resort to ambush in the wild depending on which (this is a insect and so dont post links regarding apex predators like lions or tigers doing this as they're obviously more vast in intellect), they simply rush without haste hoping it can get its claws, hands or paws on its victims to rip them apart to eat them alive.

Read our bloodlust page. Character induce stupidity is ignored. If it has the capability to do it and its the best course of action, it's taken that it will do it.

Voting the cockroach here ngl.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Read our bloodlust page. Character induce stupidity is ignored. If it has the capability to do it and its the best course of action, it's taken that it will do it.

Damn, CIS out here ignoring how irl characters behave.

Voting the cockroach here ngl.

Counted... although you never arguued against this;

I could say the same for crushers that akira combatted against have the same capability with their stealth. One crusher ambushed and killed literal several military force men who were actively shooting at it, and couldnt even see it despite the creature being massive. (The scan depicts the crusher as invisible to them as we literally cant see what slashes them along with the dark imagery over it). The cockroach as how you depict would have similar stealth to the crushers.

Akira really just anticipates the cockroach's stealth here like he does with the crushers if they arent proven superior in stealth. Stealth is really all the cockroach has rn as a major wincon.

 

[AThe1412]

Damn, CIS out here ignoring how irl characters behave.


Counted... although you never arguued against this;


Akira really just anticipates the cockroach's stealth here like he does with the crushers if they arent proven superior in stealth. Stealth is really all the cockroach has rn as a major wincon.

I'm pretty sure the crusher wasn't using stealth. It just blitzed the hell out of the soldiers.

 

[AThe1412]

Ive also given the several weakpoints of a cockroach which arent as durable as being made out and i conjure that bullets indeed have piercing damage that surpasses the tier 9 range according to what ive seen across the site.

Were you looking at posts from several years ago? Because that doesn't apply anymore. Even a 9-B can be bulletproof nowadays.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

I'm pretty sure the crusher wasn't using stealth. It just blitzed the hell out of the soldiers.

I mean they were shooting at it and couldnt see as it dismantled them despite we literally saw a soldier see it as it first appeared mid air. It couldnt be a perception blitz to all of them as it was seen at once instance. It was later confirmed the reason the soldiers died is because of the suprise ambush by mrs combat expert beatrice. They are shown to be sneaking and stealthy using the environment as an advantage even tho they already have stealth that make them invisible to people.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Were you looking at posts from several years ago? Because that doesn't apply anymore. Even a 9-B can be bulletproof nowadays.

I seen in both current and old threads. But since this doesnt apply anymore, its gonna take a while for these bullets to bypass the cockroaches defenses, they can burst through the crushers body who can oneshot them anyway, and a oneshot on this site is 8x.

 

[AThe1412]

I seen in both current and old threads. But since this doesnt apply anymore, its gonna take a while for these bullets to bypass the cockroaches defenses, they can burst through the crushers body who can oneshot them anyway, and a oneshot on this site is 8x.

The AP oneshot range is only taken into consideration for Versus Threads. You can't use it to scale characters because many series often depict characters getting oneshotted by much smaller AP gaps. If Character A oneshots Character B then Character A is much stronger but to an unknown degree (or whatever power gap the series itself establish), not 8 times stronger.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

The AP oneshot range is only taken into consideration for Versus Threads. You can't use it to scale characters because many series often depict characters getting oneshotted by much smaller AP gaps. If Character A oneshots Character B then Character A is much stronger but to an unknown degree (or whatever power gap the series itself establish), not 8 times stronger.

Oh i see. I was gonna use the fact that akiras friend stated that the crushers can "oneshot" them with its attacks which is why they were forced to dodge. It seems thats lost.

 

[AThe1412]

The stench is now known by akira which now means he can hold his breath all he wants with normal humans being able to hold their breaths for 1-2 minutes apparently (he already has a headstart beyond the stench's range), while running away from the cockroach who is actively pursuing him with flight or movement. He'll use his wall running and high jumping to manuever around the skyscraper giving him an edge in mobility and agility which can prove worthy of escaping the cockroach as he actively uses these quirks to escape and close distances from zombies which have various speeds. All this is done while shooting at the cockroach and figuring out its weakpoints in less than 59 seconds to take it down (it could figure out a bioweapons weakpoint in that timeframe so a cockroach its familiar with would be easier and less time consuming).

Akira will have to hold his breath while doing all of those strenuous activities? That'll get his blood pumping very quickly which means the amount of time he can hold his breath will be much lower because the 1-2 minutes limit is for when you're just sitting there doing nothing but holding your breath.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Akira will have to hold his breath while doing all of those strenuous activities?

Yes, that is at least until he uses those strenuous activities to create distance between them.

That'll get his blood pumping very quickly which means the amount of time he can hold his breath will be much lower because the 1-2 minutes limit is for when you're just sitting there doing nothing but holding your breath.

That's true, although he can take moments to take breaths once he realizes he's out of the range of the cockroach's stench which he now knows. He'd be fine either way as the guy has Peak Human stamina. He'd be able to do these kinda stuff for hours at the very least.

 

[AThe1412]

Yes, that is at least until it uses those strenuous activities to create distance between them.


That's true, although he can take moments to take breaths once he realizes he's out of the range of the cockroach's stench which he now knows. He'd be fine either way as the guy has Peak Human stamina. He'd be able to do these kinda stuff for hours at the very least.

I still doubt he can put that much distance between himself and the cockroach. When would he even get to take a breather? The cockroach has enhanced senses, is bloodlusted, and has much better stamina than him.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

I still doubt he can put that much distance between himself and the cockroach

Why not? The mobility from both his acrobattics and surface scaling can put widen the distance between him and hordes of zombies who all have various speeds. He'd be able to run up and down walls, jump across large areas and navigate through spaces his small and nimble body can get through which the cockroach with its large body but with force, ultimately slowing it down as not every structure in this building will be 9-B walls that it can bust through. Even if the cockroach can aswell, it will be disadvantageous with its body size unlike akira + these buildings are built suited for human navigation, there will be many areas where the cockroach cant navigate due to its width and length. This is NOT a open area so please take the setting under consideration when discussing what the cockroach can or cant do.

When would he even get to take a breather?

When he realises he isnt in the "up to 9.9 meter range" of the cockroach, he can take second breaths, and do this repeatedly until he shoots the cockroach down.

The cockroach has enhanced senses, is bloodlusted, and has much better stamina than him

True, this why i havent argued how akira could to hide from the monster which fortunately he doesnt have to. The monster will pursue him for long periods nonstop due to its bloodlust and stamina, but as ive stated, akira can escape it via his navigational advantages long enough to take breaths, shoot at it with his ranged weapons that goes up to hundreds of meters that the cockroach cant dodge. Akira can also easily outplay the cockroach with plans similar to what he has on his profile. Akira is not stupid here. The cockroach is also animalistic, this will be easy pickings.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

You're arguing that because Akira has fought Crushers that:

• Obviously he can detect stealth better than what the Cockroach has, because they're quite large and have surprised people in the past
• Obviously he can dodge the cockroach better, because the Crushers are quite large and thus harder to dodge

...but that doesn't really make sense. The cockroach being smaller makes it harder to deal with in terms of stealth, not easier. The Crushers being larger is a knock against them. Also, surprising random Joe Schmoes isn't really on par with what Lephyr is arguing. I also encourage you to think about the second point and why it too doesn't really make complete sense. The Crushers do have more surface area to work with, but this isn't the only contributing factor. Just to offer a comparison (that I find thematically fitting), we humans are regularly struck by regular old flies and other flying insects. Not because of surface area, not because of speed, but rather because we have difficulty keeping tabs on them. I reckon the same can be said to an extent of the Roach, even in spite of its size, given its superior stealth.

Like most of your arguments that paint this fight as super trivial for Akira require the Cockroach to play very specifically into his strengths, and I don't really think that's how it's going to work out.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

The cockroach being smaller makes it harder to deal with in terms of stealth, not easier

No... it means the crushers is a better master at stealth than the cockroach..... because for it to be massively bigger and still have the ability to vanish from the sight of trained soldiers.... is far better than just being able to go stealthy by statistics.

The Crushers being larger is a knock against them.

How? They're still strong, intelligent and fast as can be along with their many abilities like regeneration and body weaponry..... which is formidable enough to kill trained soldiers.

The Crushers do have more surface area to work with, but this isn't the only contributing factor

Obviously he can dodge the cockroach better, because the Crushers are quite large and thus harder to dodge

No, its more contributing to this point. Larger something is = HARDER to dodge. Especially from an agile creature despite it being huge. Akira is 5'9 dodging attacks from a creature beyond Tens Of Meters. What can the cockroach offer to make akira incapable of dodging its attacks despite it being less agile, steallthy and intelligent than a crusher while being significantly smaller?

I reckon the same can be said to an extent of the Roach, even in spite of its size, given its superior stealth.

Incomaparable analogy, the size between a human and a fly is beyond hundreds of times over which is why it would be hard for a human to keep up. The size between akira and the cockroach is almost unnoticable and the size of said cockroach and a crusher is below 10 times i rekon. The size difference isnt that massive compared to what you're comparing these guys to. And size, especially in fiction doesnt coordinate much when it comes to stealth. In fiction, the liberty status could be more stealtier than even batman if it so wishes and based on the feats presented for the crusher, its stealth is obviously greater than the cockroach.

Like most of your arguments that paint this fight as super trivial for Akira require the Cockroach to play very specifically into his strengths, and I don't really think that's how it's going to work out.

Why would it not be trivial? He defeated with weaponry collosals that surpasses the cockroach in every possible category while being physically inferior in a timeframe of 120 seconds maximum when defence forces that were trained to take care of these threats were utterly destroyed. His strength doesnt just lie in physical stats, it lies in his combat skills and intelligence despite just being a rugby player. I believe akira has enough expierence from his fights to deal with a creature as big and as versatile as this one. And now that he hss prior knowledge of the cockroach's best ability, akira will use that to his advantage. The guy is a adapter, something like this wont push him beyond his limits.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Btw a question. In versus threads, doesnt the faster character keep their reaction speed? Iirc, only combat speed is equalised.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

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[Fallen_Angelicx]

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[Fallen_Angelicx]

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[Fallen_Angelicx]

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[Fallen_Angelicx]

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[Tllmbrg]

Cockroach FRA

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Cockroach FRA

Counted.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

I still dont see a argument against akira's skill here against foes similar albeit superior foes to this cockroach upon having prior knowledge. Simply no compelling argument that ensures akira's loss with what I've given imo

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I mean. Yeah, hence your vote. In my opinion, you overestimate the advantages of Akira and significantly underestimate the advantages of the cockroach. The 7x AP advantage alone is a huge obstacle, made worse by context.

Is what it is.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

In my opinion, you overestimate the advantages of Akira and significantly underestimate the advantages of the cockroach.

1. There's no overestimation imo. Like I've stated he's literally fought characters as big and even far bigger and more intelligent than this cockroach in combat. Dodging their attacks effortlessly with his ANPR with said attacks being stated to one shot him. Since akira has experience with foes this large, what's stopping him from literally not getting hit seeing his skills and abilities (Acrobattics and surface scaling). In this scenario, the cockroach length and akira's height here is legit relative as we've concluded above so it'll be even easier..... AGAIN how can the cockroach get around Akira's ANPR, Skill, experience against legit same category but superior foes aswell as akira's adaption to foe's weakpoints and being able to shoot it..... it seems you're overestimating the cockroach putting him above someone more skilled here, the AP gap doesnt matter if akira wont be hit nor will the stench get akira as he has ways around it.
2. The AP advantage is meaningless. Akira is not getting hit unless u can show intelligence in combat based feats for this roach that surpasses the crushers which was NOT shown.
3. I gave akira prior knowledge of the roaches stench so he'll be keeping his distance and use his acrobattics and surface scaling to at least try and open the distance...... as a above average intelligence with prior knowledge he can also cover his nose..... its not a strange conclusion....

The 7x AP advantage alone is a huge obstacle, made worse by context.

Wont hit akira. The guy literally has an ability that stops him from being hit. How will the cockroach just ignore that and hit akira

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I know what your opinion is. I just think you're factually, very, wrong. We've been over it, I only reply to offer a look at the other side of the discussion. There can be as many 'imo's as voters. They're still just 'o's.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

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[Fallen_Angelicx]

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[Catbowtie]

MFW Akira didn't make his Constitution Saving Throw and gets TPK'd (Cockroach For Reasons Above)

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

MFW Akira didn't make his Constitution Saving Throw and gets TPK'd (Cockroach For Reasons Above)

Counted.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

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[Fallen_Angelicx]

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[Fallen_Angelicx]

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[Fallen_Angelicx]

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