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Akame Ga Kill! Upgrades!

Rocker1189 said:
IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
The 6-B calc is from the Supreme Beam.

Purge Mode Shikouteizer tanks it's Supreme Beam blowing up in it's chest.

Stage 3 Tatsumi breaks Shikouteizer's armor.

Stage 4 Tatsumi overpowers the Supreme Beam.

What's the issue here?
Click to expand...
The attack fgot canceled before it got fully charged into a 6-B attack you can even see in the same scan you link the colur and explosion are not the same:
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ZReQ_Dd-...?title=MTc2LjI1MS4yNy4xODg=040_1552015950.png

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/ALJGwfPBO...?title=MTc2LjI1MS4yNy4xODg=042_1552015950.png
Click to expand...
Wrong ability, mate.

Supreme Beam =/= Energy Ball
 
IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
Wrong ability, mate.

Supreme Beam =/= Energy Ball
Click to expand...
The energy ball is the only thing we saw destruction for, the supreme beams destruction was just a long concave crater which was not calced:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-eWMBz1Oq7...6y7WgR5hTwqpfLMy_C7exgCHM/s16000/0070-035.png

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-JVhbGsjWZ...DqNWGdrUx0q9w-wZJi0XwgCHM/s16000/0070-036.png

Also it was not called a supreme beam:

https://v1.mangabeast01.com/manga/Akame-Ga-Kiru/0074-013.png

but a supreme canon which either way was also not charged to fulled before it was blown up on its chest. in fact the beam/cannon you are trying to link did not create a ball like it is attempting here:

https://v1.mangabeast01.com/manga/Akame-Ga-Kiru/0074-014.png
 
The Energy Ball feat wasn't calc'd Rocker... that's not a point you're making.

Also:

>Also it was not called a supreme beam:

https://v1.mangabeast01.com/manga/Akame-Ga-Kiru/0074-013.png

I say Supreme Beam because that's what old fantranslations called it, Supreme Cannon is the official name and that's what the Emperor says in this scan you linked.

>In fact the explosion it tanked was not its own beam. It was wave's explosives.

Wave can't make explosions Rocker... Mastema is literally hardened feathers.
 
My point has always been the fact that the supreme teigu never tanked it's 6-B attack and that is still the case. The laser never had a crater shown that crater we see is either the ball or a complete unknwi because what we do see from the laser right after it is used does not match.

Except there are literally multiple explosions not just one, and he literally said that they detonated: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/U-2-_wAOg...?title=MTc2LjI1MS4yNy4xODg=015_1472378023.png

So they do in fact explode.
 
This is why you don't use fantranslations, they don't detonate and explode, they intercept the cannon.

That fan translation was completely wrong, it's translated as the Emperor talking when the official shows that it's Wave talking about how they intercepted the cannon so Shikouteizer would explicitly:

"Have a taste of it's firepower first hand!"

Edit: I noticed another mistake in your comment:

Except there are literally multiple explosions not just one,

The multiple explosions panel in this scan is from Wave having intercepted the missiles previously, it's a flashback panel as you see here.
 
Err no, even with that translation it still says have a taste of its firepower which logically means they do in fact explode. And which makes sense as there are literally multiple explosions rather than one huge one. Its translated differently but it is still the same thing.
 
Honestly at this point we are just interpreting it differently. I've got to sleep.

I am not talking about the flash back I am talking about the explosions on its chest.
 
Are you talking about this scan?

Not sure how that proves your point, it literally shows the Mastema feathers stabbing the Supreme Cannon port and then explosions occurring from the Supreme Cannon exploding on Shikouteizer insteading being fired out.
 
The explosions in which none look like the supreme cannon's explosion. The cannon that never even got fully charged btw.
 
Esdeath shouldn't at all scale to her storm in base, and the idea that "she had that energy inside her so it's a durability feat" is absolutely ridiculous. We don't rate any other character on this site based on total energy stores unless it's explicitly stated in their respective verse, we rate the character based on the feats they perform themselves. If she took days to charge something, randomly slapping an inflated rating onto her for storing the energy is absolutely erroneous.
 
Rocker1189 said:
I dont think that her individual ice attacks are 6-B even after saving up over the last few days, this is show by her ice capvary being take down by groups of elites soldiers else they would be tier 6 too individually, which needless to say sounds extremely wrong.

And I certainly do not think she is tier 6 physically, all in all I think the overall scaling for AGK at the moment is bad.
Click to expand...
This seems to be a good point. Perhaps we should keep this attack as environmental damage only, that does not scale to any characters in terms of practical physical attacks?
 
I mean, don't people think that 6-B for Edeath would be a bit outlierish?First off, its not even a proper Strength feat, its a storm feat which always yields great result, just like mass-energy conversion. Characters can have great storm feats but overall have trash feats. I thought we usually don't automatically agree with storm feats unless they are backed up with something.You can't just go on and upgrade a character from such a feat,this is the first problem.

Second problem is that Esdeath is weaker than Shikotauzer, no matter how you look at it, Shikotauzer which is high 7-A with its large nukes only, not even physically, even durability doesn't scale because there are no proofs it can not tank its own nukes.

Tatsumi doesn't scale to Shikotauzer's energy blasts either, he never tanked them, well, he once tanked a tiny explosion that was probably building sized and he was on the edge of the explosion, meaning he didn't even take 10th of the force of it.

And here you are trying to get 6-B Esdeath both physically and with her Ice when the best proper feat is High 7-A nuke that scales to only energy blasts of the most powerful Teigu in the verse.
 
Yea I mean there are multiple character who have done things similar to what esdeath did, but better and in shorter time and yet they dont scale to it.

Also just because she has so and so energy doesnt change from the fact she has to prep in order to dish out that big type of power. On normal basis shes not up there.

wave targeted the cannon port stopping it from fully firing off, meaning it wasnt as powerful as the actual fire, that's clearly seen. If it was the that mean wave attempt to stop it would of been pointless. Plus attacking a firing mechanism doesnt mean the resulting explosion is a powerful as the actual firepower.
 
This is clearly ridiculous Esdeath clearly scales past Tatsumi since she oneshotted him with her Ice Sword, shouldn't that be either be a ice feat or a physical feat or both, whilst weakened after losing her arm and drained after using Mahapadma.

Previously Tatsumi overpowered Shikotazer's Supreme Beam with his own strength and power, since he's taking the beam head on that should be a strength feat and a durability feat.

It was also stated by the Emperor that Tatsumi's attacks were different because he was evolving during their fight, which we see represents both his strength and durability.

I don't see what any of you guys are saying especially since it seems you're either using fan translations or are mistranslationing scans as pointed out by IMade.
 
This is clearly ridiculous Esdeath clearly scales past Tatsumi since she oneshotted him with her Ice Sword, shouldn't that be either be a ice feat or a physical feat or both, whilst weakened after losing her arm and drained after using Mahapadma.

First off, she might've one shot him with Ice, doesn't mean her physical strength scales to him, second, it doesn't mean she gets 6-B rating. She will be scaling to whatever Tatsumi scales. And not that ridiculous storm feat.

Previously Tatsumi overpowered Shikotazer's Supreme Beam with his own strength and power, since he's taking the beam head on that should be a strength feat and a durability feat.

Post the feat, by the way Shikotauzer is High 7-A with its nuke, not 6-B.

It was also stated by the Emperor that Tatsumi's attacks were different because he was evolving during their fight, which we see represents both his strength and durability.

This isn't relevant in here.

I don't see what any of you guys are saying especially since it seems you're either using fan translations or are mistranslationing scans as pointed out by IMade.

Our scans are fine, we are mostly using feats and not translations.
 
Tatsumi never overpowered the beam that is completely false which is funny cause you say we are misinterpreting scans. The supreme teigu does not scale to its beams physically in anyway as shown in scans above. Thus there is no physical way for tatsumi to scale. On top of that we have mentioned reasons why She can not physically scale to the snow storm.
 
Antvasima said:
Rocker1189 said:
I dont think that her individual ice attacks are 6-B even after saving up over the last few days, this is show by her ice capvary being take down by groups of elites soldiers else they would be tier 6 too individually, which needless to say sounds extremely wrong.

And I certainly do not think she is tier 6 physically, all in all I think the overall scaling for AGK at the moment is bad.
Click to expand...
This seems to be a good point. Perhaps we should keep this attack as environmental damage only, that does not scale to any characters in terms of practical physical attacks?
Click to expand...
This doesn't make sense at all since it's explicitly stated that Esdeath provided the energy to make the storm and Esdeath's abilities are based on the energy she puts out.

She has to scale to that.
 
Schnee One said:
Whether Esdeath scales to the storm, the Beam, or not.
Click to expand...
She scales to all of them.

Stage 3 Tatsumi cracks Purge Mode's armor

Stage 4 overpowers the Supreme Beam and tears a hole through Purge Mode.

To power the storm it needed the energy from 10,000 Ice Calvary that Esdeath had made.

  • Esdeath's ice abilities are based on her internal energy she outputs. She scales to a portion of it as she is putting out the energy that powered the creation of the storm:
 
IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
She scales to all of them.

Stage 3 Tatsumi cracks Purge Mode's armor

Stage 4 overpowers the Supreme Beam and tears a hole through Purge Mode.

To power the storm it needed the energy from 10,000 Ice Calvary that Esdeath had made.

  • Esdeath's ice abilities are based on her internal energy she outputs. She scales to a portion of it as she is putting out the energy that powered the creation of the storm:
Click to expand...
Its energy that never got fully charged and was interrupted because it could do so.

The rest of that scaling does not matter because its durability is not 6-B.

She has internal energy sure but its not useable for combat and has only been displayed as a one time use storm where she requires a few days to prepare for.

The rest again does not matter, all it means is that he has a lot of energy in her. We know this because her ice calvary does not scale to the energy she puts in them.

Nejenda has no idea about her storm and its power.
 
Rocker1189 said:
Its energy that never got fully charged and was interrupted because it could do so.

The rest of that scaling does not matter because its durability is not 6-B.
Click to expand...
It's literally stated by Wave that Shikouteizer will be tasting it's own firepower.

The charging is also incredibly fast shown the first time it was fired.

Also, Stage 4 Tatsumi still overpowered the Supreme Beam and Shikouteizer took the initial hit from Stage 4, he needed to power up more in order to dig deeper into it's armor.

It's still scaling in durability.

She has internal energy sure but its not useable for combat and has only been displayed as a one time use storm where she requires a few days to prepare for.
Yes it is? How is energy that she has displayed being able to store in her ice not combat applicable when she can use her ice for combat?

The rest again does not matter, all it means is that he has a lot of energy in her. We know this because her ice calvary does not scale to the energy she puts in them.
The Ice Calvary are proof she can output energy into her ice is the point.

Nejenda has no idea about her storm and its power.
Najenda knows how Esdeath abilities work and is explaining how Esdeath's ice manipulation relies on her energy just as the other scans show.
 
IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
It's literally stated by Wave that Shikouteizer will be tasting it's own firepower.

The charging is also incredibly fast shown the first time it was fired.

Also, Stage 4 Tatsumi still overpowered the Supreme Beam and Shikouteizer took the initial hit from Stage 4, he needed to power up more in order to dig deeper into it's armor.

It's still scaling in durability.

Yes it is? How is energy that she has displayed being able to store in her ice not combat applicable when she can use her ice for combat?

The Ice Calvary are proof she can output energy into her ice is the point.

Najenda knows how Esdeath abilities work and is explaining how Esdeath's ice manipulation relies on her energy just as the other scans show.
Click to expand...
Its firepower which could refer to the feathers it is not specific as well can compared to the original explosio (which I am still not sure is what made the crater in the first place) thesecond one is faar to small for it to be the same.

Stage 4 tatsumi never overpower the beam he dodgedall of thembefore piecring through the teigu.

Its not scaling.

Because once again 6-B energy in her ice has not made it 6-B in durability or AP as for the hundredth time displayed by the ice calvary.

Its not, all it means is that she can store 6-B energy in her ice calvary again for the hundredth time.

Good thing that again it does not relate to her ice's actual AP.

We have been going back and fought on this same thing for ages at this point I am getting faar too tired and never cared enough about AGK to do CRTs for it so I would rathe rothers just gave their opinions.
 
I am in agreement with Rocker, I don't think Esdeath scales to the Cannon or the Storm.

BTW saying that shotting a Cannon means tanking it's Durability is false. Fate Servants use High 6C attacks in their 6C states and Mami from Madoka Magica has Guns that shoot 7A bullets

Surviving recoil isn't Durability
 
Rocker1189 said:
Its firepower which could refer to the feathers it is not specific as well can compared to the original explosio (which I am still not sure is what made the crater in the first place) thesecond one is faar to small for it to be the same.
Click to expand...
Why would Wave be referring to the feathers when stating that Shikouteizer should have a taste of it's own firepower?

Stage 4 tatsumi never overpower the beam he dodgedall of thembefore piecring through the teigu. Its not scaling.
This is false, you can see here in the bottom two panels that Tatsumi is going through the energy beam.

Because once again 6-B energy in her ice has not made it 6-B in durability or AP as for the hundredth time displayed by the ice calvary.
May you provide evidence to the contrary? Also, amped Esdeath is what would be scaling.

Its not, all it means is that she can store 6-B energy in her ice calvary again for the hundredth time.
If she can output 6-B energy then she is capable of 6-B AP.

Good thing that again it does not relate to her ice's actual AP.
And once again, if she is able to put out 6-B energy, she is also able to output 6-B AP.

We have been going back and fought on this same thing for ages at this point I am getting faar too tired and never cared enough about AGK to do CRTs for it so I would rathe rothers just gave their opinions.
That's fair, but I will still keep supporting my thoughts with scans.
 
Schnee One said:
I am in agreement with Rocker, I don't think Esdeath scales to the Cannon or the Storm.
BTW saying that shotting a Cannon means tanking it's Durability is false. Fate Servants use High 6C attacks in their 6C states and Mami from Madoka Magica has Guns that shoot 7A bullets

Surviving recoil isn't Durability
Click to expand...
You're ignoring the fact that Shikouteizer tanks it's own Supreme Beam setting off in it's chest though.

Rocker used incorrect fantranslations to state Wave's feather could "detonate" and caused the explosions instead of the official English that show it's Shikouteizer taking it's own firepower.
 
IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
Why would Wave be referring to the feathers when stating that Shikouteizer should have a taste of it's own firepower?

This is false, you can see here in the bottom two panels that Tatsumi is going through the energy beam.


May you provide evidence to the contrary?

Also, amped Esdeath is what would be scaling.

If she can output 6-B energy then she is capable of 6-B AP.


And once again, if she is able to put out 6-B energy, she is also able to output 6-B AP.

That's fair, but I will still keep supporting my thoughts with scans.
Click to expand...
He does not say that shikouteizer should have a taste of it's own firepower that is completely up to interpretation and you are ignoring that again the explosion was not nearly as big as the one the beam has actually shown and again there are multiple of said explosion.

In those bottom 2 panels you dont see anything but tatsumi and smoke and considering he has dodged all the other lasers, going through one at random seems extremely unlikely.

The. ice. calvary.

I have explained this several times.

She is not able to otuput 6-B AP and never has she is able to put 6-B AP into ice like a battery else yet again her calvary woul dbe 6-B in AP and most importantly in durability.

Sure, AGK has never been a verse I cared too much about.
 
IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
You're ignoring the fact that Shikouteizer tanks it's own Supreme Beam setting off in it's chest though.

Rocker used incorrect fantranslations to state Wave's feather could "detonate" and caused the explosions instead of the official English that show it's Shikouteizer taking it's own firepower.
Click to expand...
They both imply the exact same thing it is you that is assuming that "it", means the supreme cannon. And again by the size of each explosion it is obviously not on the same level even each you want to say it was the supreme canon firing. The only true mistake there is the fan translation assuming it is the emperor continuing to speak while it is actually wave.
 
Disagree, it's her power that she used to create them, then she recalled the stored power and then moved it into the atmosphere, the storm then was maintained throughout the whole battle until her death, she is the reason and cause for the storm.

The energy comes from her, of course she should scale.

Just because the Calvary itself may or may not have demonstrated AP and durability means nothing if it was part of her plan for them to be destroyed in the first place, why else would she store the energy in them in the first place if she didn't plan to use it.
 
I've read through the thread and I am leaning towards agreeing with rocker. I do not think we should give an individual a complete tier upgrade in physicals from an Environmental destruction feat that took prep time to complete. At best, Esdeath should get an "At most" with prep or "X-tier with environmental destruction".
 
Rocker1189 said:
He does not say that shikouteizer should have a taste of it's own firepower that is completely up to interpretation and you are ignoring that again the explosion was not nearly as big as the one the beam has actually shown and again there are multiple of said explosion. They both imply the exact same thing it is you that is assuming that "it", means the supreme cannon. And again by the size of each explosion it is obviously not on the same level even each you want to say it was the supreme canon firing. The only true mistake there is the fan translation assuming it is the emperor continuing to speak while it is actually wave.
Click to expand...
That's because it's an internal explosion, the energy for the cannon gathers from inside the mech.

The explosion is contained given that it's properly expelled.

An example is when Bee sets off a Bijuudama in the Juubi. The Bijuudama swallow mountains yet the size is not that of a mountain. It's still the same AP obviously, but the explosion size is smaller since it was self-contained.

In those bottom 2 panels you dont see anything but tatsumi and smoke and considering he has dodged all the other lasers, going through one at random seems extremely unlikely.
Tatsumi Smoke
Smoke and Energy Difference

The lasers can move as they're attached to the mech's eyes.

Also, you can see there is difference in the smoke that Tatsumi is emitting from his body (the streamlined smoke) which is in blue and the energy that is around Tatsumi in the bottom panels.

He goes through the energy beam.

The. ice. calvary.
I have explained this several times.

She is not able to otuput 6-B AP and never has she is able to put 6-B AP into ice like a battery else yet again her calvary woul dbe 6-B in AP and most importantly in durability.
But you've never provided scans for this stance.

And this doesn't country Amped Esdeath.

Sure, AGK has never been a verse I cared too much about.
Okay.
 
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