Akame Ga Kill! Upgrades!

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

We got a lot to go over since we've had a recent batch of accepted calcs and need to discuss which applies to who and the possibility of new keys:

7-B
From Morning Star TM and ZephyrOmega, Shikouteizer's missiles were calc'd to be at an accepted 33.435 Megatons of TNT (City level), which is 7-B. A lot would scale to this from what I can recall given that many of the Teigu wielding soldiers could overpower some of the missiles such as the Extase user and the Black Marlin user, there is potential further scaling from those characters.

High 7-A
From Muhammedmco, the laser itself was calced to be at an accepted 1.2 Gigatons of TNT (Large Mountain level), which is High 7-A.

Here was SchneeOne's thoughts on the potential scaling from this one:

Anyway, Esdeath, Tats and Shikoutazer are the only one who scale to this

Akame got defeated very easily by Esdeath when the two clashed afterwards and Akame has never been able to match Esdeath without Enoodzuno, Tatsumi saw Esdeath as a threat so her being High 7A I get.

Wave was doing chip damage against the Shikoutazers weakpoint, which is a dubious way of scaling since he doesn't do much afterwards nd never directly survives an attack from it.

Personally I think Akame deserves a new key labeled "Drug Boosted" as Akame underwent pill enhancement in order to fight Esdeath and she was breaking Esdeath's ice at that point which should allow her to scale to this feat.

High 6-B, 6-A, and High 6-A
From Therefir, Esdeath's storm was calced once again and finally accepted for once at an accepted 250 Petatons of TNT (Multi-Continent level), which is High 6-A.

Esdeath does not scale to the full yield of this because it explicitly required the power of 10,000 of her previously made Ice Calvary from days of making them. She took in that power for a moment and then fired it into the sky to make the storm, so if you want to discuss a thereotical Esdeath holding that power in herself and not using it for the storm, be my guest.

However, Esdeath still scales to a portion of this calc as she made the Ice Calvary that powered it, so determining the amount she could make at once would show her level of power as compared to the 10,000 needed to power the storm.

Casually Esdeath was able to make 4 with a snap of her finger, and possibly 8 at a time up to 63 in a short unknown time when demonstrating to the Emperor.

As the calc currently states, Esdeath should at least scale to 100 teratons (Large Country leve), which is High 6-B from making 4 Ice Calvary casually (10,000 calvary divided by 4 is 2500, High 6-A yield of 250 petatons divided by 2500 is 100 teratons), but she did demonstrate making more quickly as well such as 8 and up to 63. 4 is 100 teratons, 8 is 200 teratons (still High 6-B, just higher), and 63 is 1.58 petatons (6-A). To cover all options I think it's safer to label her as:

At least High 6-B, likely higher, possibly 6-A

All in all, whichever is gone with is at least consistent with Esdeath being superior to 6-B Purge Mode Shikouteizer and from Esdeath one-shotting Tyrant Tatsumi (who is superior to Stage 4 Tatsumi that one-shotted Purge Mode Shikouteizer).

Essentially only Trump Card Akame is gonna scale from Esdeath with Tyrant Tatsumi possibly scaling since he survived a hit from Esdeath, destroyed her Ice Tree, and stopped her Ice Blender.

If you want to discuss a potential High 6-A Esdeath if she didn't use the power for the storm, go ahead if you want.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

This all looks good, but I would just change Esdeath to "At least High 6-B, possibly 6-A"

The likely higher is rather unnecessarry

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Agree

 

[Jasonsith]

I prefer more AGK knowledgeable members to explain who scale to whom.

 

[Schnee_One]

I agree with everything except for scaling the storm, I made a CRT a while ago on scaling Esdeath to the storm and it was rejected, Ill try to find it.

I would recommend contacting DT on the matter.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

This all looks good, but I would just change Esdeath to "At least High 6-B, possibly 6-A"
The likely higher is rather unnecessarry

Yeah, the more I look at it it seems unnecessary.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

I agree with everything except for scaling the storm, I made a CRT a while ago on scaling Esdeath to the storm and it was rejected, Ill try to find it.
I would recommend contacting DT on the matter.

I can ask DT if they can recall this, but they also approved of the new calc when you check the blog.

 

[Schnee_One]

Oh I'm not saying thecalc is wrong, it's just scaling to her physical stats is what I have problems with

 

[Antvasima]

This all looks good, but I would just change Esdeath to "At least High 6-B, possibly 6-A"

The likely higher is rather unnecessarry

That seems fine to me as well.

 

[Qawsedf234]

So do we not include the High 6-A rating on her page then? Either way I'm good with "High 6-B, possibly 6-A".

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with everything except for scaling the storm, I made a CRT a while ago on scaling Esdeath to the storm and it was rejected, Ill try to find it.

I would recommend contacting DT on the matter.

Okay. That complicates things. Is somebody willing to ask DontTalkDT to comment here?

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Even though the energy needed to make the storm was made from her power stored in her Ice Calvary that were then transferred back into her?

Could you explain why you don't think it should scale to her when she made the energy that powered the storm?

Or do you solely mean because it was a product of her ice powers it should not scale to her physical stats and should only scale to her ice powers?

 

[Jasonsith]

For anything except Ice Storm: Commander-in-Chief

I prefer more AGK knowledgeable members to explain who scale to whom.

I mean a scaling tree of who defeated whom and who fights with whom among whom, who made such feats.

I agree with everything except for scaling the storm, I made a CRT a while ago on scaling Esdeath to the storm and it was rejected, Ill try to find it.
I would recommend contacting DT on the matter.

For the Ice Storm: Commander-in-Chief...

There are a lot of calc blogs on this one.

I am listing all the calc blogs here. Please wait.

• User blog:ZephyrosOmega/Akame Ga Kill: Another Esdeath Storm Feat
• User blog:Kingo the Sixth/Akame Ga Kill: Esdeath brings the death
• User blog:Migue79/Esdeath CiC Re-Calc
• User blog:Morning Star TM/Akame ga Kill - Esdeath's Ice Storm Commander-In-Chief Redux
• User blog:Morning Star TM/Akame ga Kill - Esdeath's Ice Storm Commander-In-Chief Redux 2
• User blog:Therefir/Akame ga Kill!: Ice Storm Commander-In-Chief

A good lot of them.

And there are questions on how much is the AP yield of one ISCIC, how long the preparation Esdeath needs, and how much she can tap into per second.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

All the other Ice Storm calcs were denied, only Therefir's was accepted thus a CRT is not needed to discuss which to use. There is only one we can use, the only accepted one.

Edit: I have contacted DT as well.

 

[Elizhaa]

This all looks good, but I would just change Esdeath to "At least High 6-B, possibly 6-A"
The likely higher is rather unnecessarry

I also shared this view.

I will also wait for DontTalkDT's inputs.

 

[Rocker1189]

I dont like the fact we are scaling her physicals to the storm, that would always sit wrong with me, is there an actual reason that it should scale? Also the fact that she is more dangerous than the supreme teigu is due to her storms range affecting a continent sized area not because she is actually stronger than it.

In fact if she did scale to it physically(or in anyway for that matter) then she should not have used that move in the first place, she should have used the full High 6-A power after absorbing the soldiers and oneshot everyone.

 

[Morning_Star_TM]

...Whatever.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

I dont like the fact we are scaling her physicals to the storm, that would always sit wrong with me, is there an actual reason that it should scale? Also the fact that she is more dangerous than the supreme teigu is due to her storms range affecting a continent sized area not because she is actually stronger than it.
In fact if she did scale to it physically(or in anyway for that matter) then she should not have used that move in the first place, she should have used the full High 6-A power after absorbing the soldiers and oneshot everyone.

Her ice definitely scales as it's her powers that performed the feat.

However, her physicals do extend further from fighting characters that scale to her ice.

However, the storm was performed so she could attack the entire Revolutionary Army at once instead of 1 by 1 as she would have to for the 100,000 soldiers she was fighting in the final battle.

 

[BlackeJan]

Or there's a chance she could had used that storm to wipe/tired out the many soldiers. This could also be looked at realistically for RL since weather also played a part in defeating enemies

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Or there's a chance she could had used that storm to wipe/tired out the many soldiers. This could also be looked at realistically for RL since weather also played a part in defeating enemies

This is true as immediately after using Ice Storm, Esdeath belittles the army stating that they would need to kill her quickly before the ice tires them and kills the rest of the continent.

 

[Rocker1189]

Okay its her powers, but ice commander in chief is meant to do a specific thing which it did and she released it all in oneshot assuming that her normal ice atacks would all scale to High 6-A is extremely unlikely. I dont see why her normal powers would scale to something like that especially when it is far abover everything else in the series. apart from the supreme teigu which again its scaling to her is dubious at best.

Scaling her physicals would be 100 percent wrong. So at least we agree there.

So what if she had to fight them 1 on 1 it wasnt even the reason she used the move, she used it to force the entire country's death not just the 100,000 soldiers. 100,000 people is not even that much considering the AOE of her normal ice attacks.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Okay its her powers, but ice commander in chief is meant to do a specific thing which it did and she released it all in oneshot assuming that her normal ice atacks would all scale to High 6-A is extremely unlikely.

I dont see why her normal powers would scale to something like that especially when it is far abover everything else in the series. apart from the supreme teigu which again its scaling to her is dubious at best.

I'm not arguing for this, Rocker? Go through the OP again if you need.

Scaling her physicals would be 100 percent wrong. So at least we agree there.
Well it would still scale from fighting Akame physically when Akame overpowered her ice.

So what if she had to fight them 1 on 1 it wasnt even the reason she used the move, she used it to force the entire country's death not just the 100,000 soldiers. 100,000 people is not even that much considering the AOE of her normal ice attacks.
The 100,000 were the soldiers used to defeat Esdeath alone.

The Revolutionary Army was still surrounding the Capital, the Empire, and were in the Capital as well.

The storm's purpose was to tire out the soldiers over time and kill the stragglers.

 

[Rocker1189]

I'm not arguing for this, Rocker? Go through the OP again if you need.

Well it would still scale from fighting Akame physically when Akame overpowered her ice.

The 100,000 were the soldiers used to defeat Esdeath alone.

The Revolutionary Army was still surrounding the Capital, the Empire, and were in the Capital as well.

The storm's purpose was to tire out the soldiers over time and kill the stragglers.

I am making a mistake with the High 6-A, I mean the High 6-B.

Again her normal ice should not scale to it

Ok, yet again, she has more than enough AOE to deal with all of them, in fact even more of a reason for her not to use ice commander in chief they are not all going to fight her. It would make far more sense for her to wipe out everyone with her own power.

 

[Schnee_One]

Guys

Wait for DT.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

I am making a mistake with the High 6-A, I mean the High 6-B.

Again her normal ice should not scale to it.

They don't, this is for her amped key.

Ok, yet again, she has more than enough AOE to deal with all of them, in fact even more of a reason for her not to use ice commander in chief they are not all going to fight her. It would make far more sense for her to wipe out everyone with her own power.
Esdeath doesn't have such AoE though? What's your point here? Or do you think Esdeath has the AoE to normally attack a country and a continent?

This is why she needed to use Ice Storm, to attack them all at once given how far apart the armies were in Empire and continent.

 

[Rocker1189]

They don't, this is for her amped key.

Esdeath doesn't have such AoE though? What's your point here? Or do you think Esdeath has the AoE to normally attack a country and a continent?

You know know what I mean.

She has the AOE to take out 100,000 people that is what I am saying. She could freeze a whole lake.

Edit:

I just want to say that btw using your 4 calvary calc each calvary ice soldier would need to be 25 teratons in strength, yet they were capable of being restrained by a few Elite soldiers at a time, unless of course you are suggesting that each Elite soldier is at least 6-B in power.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

You know know what I mean.

Honestly don't, she was amped by the ISCIC, so this is only for her amped key.

She has the AOE to take out 100,000 people that is what I am saying. She could freeze a whole lake.
The lake feat wasn't that big you know? A few thousand maybe, not tens of thousands.

Also, the 100,000 soldiers were the portion of the army of elite soldier Najenda was using to fight Esdeath.

There was still the rest of the army that was in the Capital and throughout the Empire.

Edit:
I just want to say that btw using your 4 calvary calc each calvary ice soldier would need to be 25 teratons in strength, yet they were capable of being restrained by a few Elite soldiers at a time, unless of course you are suggesting that each Elite soldier is at least 6-B in power.

The elite soldiers by Najenda were actually all pretty strong per their feats.

We have instances of them destroying Ice Calvary and stopping Shikouteizer's missiles even.

And per how Ice Storm works, it's energy is derived from 10,000 Ice Calvary.

 

[Rocker1189]

Honestly don't, she was amped by the ISCIC, so this is only for her amped key.

The lake feat wasn't that big you know? A few thousand maybe, not tens of thousands.

Also, the 100,000 soldiers were the portion of the army of elite soldier Najenda was using to fight Esdeath.

There was still the rest of the army that was in the Capital and throughout the Empire.

The elite soldiers by Najenda were actually all pretty strong per their feats.

We have instances of them destroying Ice Calvary and stopping Shikouteizer's missiles even.

And per how Ice Storm works, it's energy is derived from 10,000 Ice Calvary.

Well then I meant her amped key.

dude, 100,000 people can fit in faar smaller spaces than you think.

You are seriously arguing that the elite soldiers could be 6-B.. stronger than Akame and as strong as the supreme teigu, tell me you are not being serious. Also you dont have to be strong to stop a missle as ling as you are not doing it physically. if you it hit with a projectile regardless of how strong the projectile is with enough impact the missle would go off. Also you are mixing up Teigu users and Elite aoldiers, those are 2 different levels of power and even then the teigu users should not be tier 6 in any capacity

The ice calvary might have that energy in them but they dont attack with that amount of power, they are like a battery. A battery might have tier 8 power for example but it would only be releasing tier 10 power per second. That is all it means for the ice calvary.

Also as for her being compared to the supreme Teigu:


https://imgur.com/a/B9qpoQC

https://v1.mangabeast01.com/manga/Akame-Ga-Kiru/0075-032.png

Its has to do with her attack range and the fact that she would end up killing the families of her own soldiers still fighting in a war, absolutely nothing to do with her being more powerful than it so I dont know why she is being said as such.

 

[BlackeJan]

This is true as immediately after using Ice Storm, Esdeath belittles the army stating that they would need to kill her quickly before the ice tires them and kills the rest of the continent.

That's not what I mean. I meant that the storm is what cause the destruction not Esdeath herself. This was pretty much a "trump card" she use to only tire out the soldiers

Not only that but wasn't this overtime? like it wasn't instant at all actually

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Well then I meant her amped key.

So you think she shouldn't scale to her own feat?

dude, 100,000 people can fit in faar smaller spaces than you think.
Sure if they aren't spread out.

But Esdeath is targeting more than just those 100,000 that were surrounding her.

You are seriously arguing that the elite soldiers could be 6-B.. stronger than Akame and as strong as the supreme teigu, tell me you are not being serious. Also you dont have to be strong to stop a missle as ling as you are not doing it physically. if you it hit with a projectile regardless of how strong the projectile is with enough impact the missle would go off. Also you are mixing up Teigu users and Elite aoldiers, those are 2 different levels of power and even then the teigu users should not be tier 6 in any capacity
Trump Card Akame is above them, but if you seem to imply Base Akame is one of the strongest you're mistaken. There are several instances of her being weaker than opponents. Even in Zero Akame wasn't in the top 5 of her team.

Either way, the soldiers Najenda used for the 100,000 were all Elite Soldiers, the Teigu users were of those soldiers just given Teigu. Teigu don't increase stats all the time.

The ice calvary might have that energy in them but they dont attack with that amount of power, they are like a battery. A battery might have tier 8 power for example but it would only be releasing tier 10 power per second. That is all it means for the ice calvary.
Also as for her being compared to the supreme Teigu:
https://imgur.com/a/B9qpoQC

https://v1.mangabeast01.com/manga/Akame-Ga-Kiru/0075-032.png

Its has to do with her attack range and the fact that she would end up killing the families of her own soldiers still fighting in a war, absolutely nothing to do with her being more powerful than it so I dont know why she is being said as such.

This statement is support for Esdeath being above Shikouteizer, she already scales above Shikouteizer from Tatsumi.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

That's not what I mean. I meant that the storm is what cause the destruction not Esdeath herself. This was pretty much a "trump card" she use to only tire out the soldiers

Not only that but wasn't this overtime? like it wasn't instant at all actually

The storm is instant which is what the calc is from, the tiring and killing effects are over time.

 

[Rocker1189]

So you think she shouldn't scale to her own feat? Sure if they aren't spread out.

But Esdeath is targeting more than just those 100,000 that were surrounding her.

Trump Card Akame is above them, but if you seem to imply Base Akame is one of the strongest you're mistaken. There are several instances of her being weaker than opponents. Even in Zero Akame wasn't in the top 5 of her team.

Either way, the soldiers Najenda used for the 100,000 were all Elite Soldiers, the Teigu users were of those soldiers just given Teigu. Teigu don't increase stats all the time.

This statement is support for Esdeath being above Shikouteizer, she already scales above Shikouteizer from Tatsumi.

I think that she is only tier 6 via environmental destruction. And with a singular move.

And they were not spread out, thy were literally all surrounding her.

Yeah she is targetting the families of even her own soldiers.

I never implied she was a God tier but she was certainly a top tier else she would not be in Night raid which is made up of individuals that Najenda clearly thought of as the best people on her side, you cant be serious in attempting to state that the individual Elite soldiers could be tier 6 I am sorry but that is top level wank.

The teigu users used the powers of teigus to counter act the supreme teigu, you are kinda proving my point because I am not even sure that the entire scaling of this verse holds up upon reviewing the original calcs used and how they are scaled.

Nothing you have stated has shown her to actually be tier 6 in anyway. Her so called High 6-B soldiers were defeated by randoms that you are now trying to individually scale to 6-B. The scaling with the supreme teigu and Tatsumi is already dubious and the scaling with the rest of the verse based on the lightning teigu is downright terrible.

 

[Slacjow]

@IMade

Can you please stop pushing your own interpretation of Najenda's statement?

You don't need to be a genius to realize she was referring to Esdeath's Storm Range which by the way was supposed to kill the population of the entire country overtime.

I don't know how many times I have mention this thing already.

Its not related to AP.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

I think that she is only tier 6 via environmental destruction. And with a singular move.

It's a storm feat that is powered by her ice that was calc'd with KE.

She scales to a portion of the storm, not the entirety as it requires a specific amount of her power needed.

And they were not spread out, thy were literally all surrounding her.
I don't think you understand the difference between the 100,000 elite soldiers and the entire Revolutionary Army.

Esdeath was in the inner walls of the Capital surrounded by 100,000 soldiers.

Her storm was targetting not only those 100,000 soldiers but the entire Revolutionary Army that was located throughout the Capital, outside the Capital walls and through the Empire.

Yeah she is targetting the families of even her own soldiers.

I never implied she was a God tier but she was certainly a top tier else she would not be in Night raid which is made up of individuals that Najenda clearly thought of as the best people on her side, you cant be serious in attempting to state that the individual Elite soldiers could be tier 6 I am sorry but that is top level wank. The teigu users used the powers of teigus to counter act the supreme teigu, you are kinda proving my point because I am not even sure that the entire scaling of this verse holds up upon reviewing the original calcs used and how they are scaled.
As we're shown, only the Elite Soldier Teigu users were able to destroy the Ice Calvary, while multiple Elite Soldiers were needed to hold down the Ice Calvary, not even destroy them.

Either way, the energy needed to power the storm were located in the Ice Calvary, if you wanted to we could assume they didn't have the AP from the division and were just holding that power needed to make the Ice Storm. This is actually something ZephyrosOmega brought up in the previous thread.

Nothing you have stated has shown her to actually be tier 6 in anyway.
Esdeath is already currently 6-B from scaling defeating Tatsumi.

Her so called High 6-B soldiers were defeated by randoms that you are now trying to individually scale to 6-B.
The Ice Calvary wouldn't be High 6-B, this is misleading.

The scaling with the supreme teigu and Tatsumi is already dubious and the scaling with the rest of the verse based on the lightning teigu is downright terrible.
Tatsumi defeats the Supreme Teigu which is 6-B.

Esdeath defeats a strong Tatsumi which is why she's currently 6-B.

Explain how this is dubious?

Also what is the issue with Budo?

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

@IMade

Can you please stop pushing your own interpretation of Najenda's statement?

You don't need to be a genius to realize she was referring to Esdeath's Storm Range which by the way was supposed to kill the population of the entire country overtime.

I don't know how many times I have mention this thing already.

Its not related to AP.

You need energy to make that storm, energy that Esdeath was literally storing in her Ice Calvary that she made herself over time.

She scales to a portion of the energy that has shown to be able to make at a time. That's AP.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I'm with IMade, it's absurd to assume her peak isn't at the very least a fraction of the storm's full energy

 

[Elizhaa]

From reading the recent posts, I think that Imade's points make sense.

 

[Jasonsith]

So we have some elephants coming:

1. What is Esdeath's casual AP then?

2. Does this scale to her durability?

3. Who scales to which benchmark? (Like Ennoodzuno Mode Akame and who else?)

In the worst case this may shake the validity of the end chosen at Therefir's calc blog.

 

[Rocker1189]

I'm with IMade, it's absurd to assume her peak isn't at the very least a fraction of the storm's full energy

No what is absurd is assuming that Esdeath's ice is actually 6-B. And that each of the Elite soldiers are 6-B scaling from the ice Calvary. When btw all of that power was released in one burs Mt and she can not repeat it. Telling me that she in fact does not use the full 6-B power in one burst. I would respond to his full claims later. Because I don't agree with scaling the supreme teigu durability to 6-B in the first place. Its a machine. The fact it has 6-B power does not indicate 6-B durability and we see this with wave's attacks.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

That's actually a fair argument... I'm a little more neutral now, however I do think scaling her to a portion of the calc is acceptable