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Akame Ga Kill! Upgrades!

I don't think it's acceptable to do that either. It is faar above any actual feat she has done barring a one time non repeatable feat where she had to spend days preparing for it. And we base it off of the fact she can create 4 Calvary (btw the 63 Calvary could be a part of the 10,000 because I am pretty sure she stated 4 per day to be her limit). The Calvary clearly do not have 6-B durability thus her ice which is based off of its durability should not be 6-B either. On top of this I talked about Budo scaling extremely briefly but I mean that teigu scaling in general is trash. I would elaborate in a few hours. But my basic point is. Unlike with a lot of shounen. This verse does not have a general energy. There is not chakra, reiatsu, nen heck not even Haki or mana. Scaling people off of teigu is a horrible idea. They are just like weapons, you don't scale someone to another guy that has a gun. Scalingm to his physicals and to people "comparable" to inflates the Verse's AP horiibly. Same thing with Mine and pumpkin.
 
@IMadeThisOn8-1-2017

I don't care how you use the values of that feat.

BUT, don't say that Najenda's "Greater Threat" was referring to The Strength when its clear as day it was about the Range of the storm.

After the revision don't forget to remove "Stated by Najenda to be a greater threat than Shikoutazer while in this state." from Esdeath's AP section, you can add it to the Range section if you want, but not AP.
 
Rocker makes the most sense here, unless you truly believe that her Ice Cavalry is 6-B, don't just blindly agree with IMade.At least consider the common sense.

AGK isn't Naruto or Bleach or DBZ, if I don't forget there is no such thing as Chakra/Ki/Reiatsu (or whatever its) in there where you can distribute it to literally any possible Technique and make it stronger based on the amount of said type of energy.

You can't just say "Esdeath used energy on that feat then she scales", at least prove that this kind of scaling is even possible.

Thats all from me.
 
What are the conclusions so far here? Also, you can tell DontTalkDT that I would appreciate the help.
 
Yea rocker and slac have good points to add on Also the supreme robot did far more damage to tatsumi in stage 2 https://*********.com/Manga/Akame-ga-Kill/Chapter-073?id=304565#13 Tatsumi stage 2 and esdeath were on even terms for the most part, if she was as above the robot as this said she should of hurt tatsumi even after he evolved, just like she did to him when he was in stage one she knocked him out

She didnt defeat dragon tatsumi. Yea she slashed but he got back up immediately after thanks to his Regenerationn, so I dont see how that counts as beating.
 
I was in the middle of writing a big response but if I am being honest I am too lazy to finish it right now, so it would likely come later.
 
Rocker1189 said:
No what is absurd is assuming that Esdeath's ice is actually 6-B. And that each of the Elite soldiers are 6-B scaling from the ice Calvary. When btw all of that power was released in one burs Mt and she can not repeat it. Telling me that she in fact does not use the full 6-B power in one burst. I would respond to his full claims later. Because I don't agree with scaling the supreme teigu durability to 6-B in the first place. Its a machine. The fact it has 6-B power does not indicate 6-B durability and we see this with wave's attacks.
Click to expand...
You're making a few mistakes here, you keep saying that she doesn't scale to the full 6-B power in one bursts when that's not even the calc's ratings. The calc is High 6-A from it's storm effects. The storm was made from 10,000 ice calvary that Esdeath made and provided the energy for. Esdeath has shown to casually make 4 and up to 63 in a short time. Esdeath scales to making 4/10,000th of the storm and possibly up to 63/10,000th of the storm. That is what she is scaling to, a fraction of the storm since she's demonstrated to casually make a fraction of the power needed to supply the storm.


What you're also forgetting is that Esdeath was not only amped from this, but Esdeath still provided the energy to make the storm.

You're stating we should ignore that Esdeath powered the storm with her soldiers that she made.

The Supreme Teigu is not just a machine thanks to Minister Honest allowing Dorothea to mess with it using Alchemy, it's a living machine.

I don't think it's acceptable to do that either. It is faar above any actual feat she has done barring a one time non repeatable feat where she had to spend days preparing for it. And we base it off of the fact she can create 4 Calvary (btw the 63 Calvary could be a part of the 10,000 because I am pretty sure she stated 4 per day to be her limit).
This is false, she never stated 4 per day to be her limit. We literally see her make 63 for the Emperor.

The Calvary clearly do not have 6-B durability thus her ice which is based off of its durability should not be 6-B either.
That's fair to believe and I wouldn't be opposed to it.

But it goes without saying that Calvary still have energy stored in them from Esdeath and 10,000 are needed to power the storm still.

There exists characters on the wiki with more energy in them than their AP like Fairy Heart Zeref who has infinite Magic but at best 6-A AP. Or the Juubi who was described to have planetary Chakra but is 6-A in AP.

The Ice Calvary being of lower AP than the energy inside of them is not an issue.

On top of this I talked about Budo scaling extremely briefly but I mean that teigu scaling in general is trash. I would elaborate in a few hours. But my basic point is. Unlike with a lot of shounen. This verse does not have a general energy. There is not chakra, reiatsu, nen heck not even Haki or mana. Scaling people off of teigu is a horrible idea. They are just like weapons, you don't scale someone to another guy that has a gun. Scalingm to his physicals and to people "comparable" to inflates the Verse's AP horiibly. Same thing with Mine and pumpkin.
That's fair, but you can't ignore when one person's Teigu is clearly superior to another or a scaling chain with Teigu such as:

Esdeath > Tyrant Tatsumi > Stage 4 Tatsumi > Stage 3 Tatsumi = Purge Mode Shikouteizer.
 
Schnee One said:
I want to hugely apologize for how long this took. https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1929781?useskin=oasis

This was the thread that rejected the storm scaling to physicals
Click to expand...
We're probably going to need DT to discuss here again because the discussions in this thread are outdated and no longer based on correct information.

The 3 days statement isn't found in the official English and we're just told she made the storm with her 10,000 ice soldiers that she provided the energy for.

They were discussing the energy needed to maintain the storm, not supply the energy to create it.
 
I'm in agreement with IMade here, I don't see why Esdeath shouldn't scale partly to her own storm since she makes it and it disappears after she is killed, that would implie that she is maintaining it.

I don't see why other franchise energy properties are being brought up as a reason not to scale, since Esdeath's power comes from her Teigu which in turn is her blood, wouldn't that mean the power is coming from her?

As for Ice Calvary wouldn't of it been part of Esdeath's plan if the Calvary were to get destroyed in order to use ISCIC, it's not like she was bothered in any way when they were destroyed, it seems more like that she planned for that to happen. https://m.imgur.com/Ko8FrJY Also I don't see why the Calvary's durabilty matters so much as it seems they were created as a replacement army and to hold extra power for Esdeath.

Scaling her to Tyrant makes sense since after he became Tyrant he wasn't hurt after overpowering Shikoutazer's beam, yet was borderline oneshotted by Esdeath afterwards. Plus wasn't it stated by the Emperor that Tatsumi was evolving every second because his attacks seemed different? That would mean that when Tyrant was oneshotted by Esdeath he would have to have been stronger and more durable during that time.
 
Slacjow said:
Rocker makes the most sense here, unless you truly believe that her Ice Cavalry is 6-B, don't just blindly agree with IMade.At least consider the common sense.

AGK isn't Naruto or Bleach or DBZ, if I don't forget there is no such thing as Chakra/Ki/Reiatsu (or whatever its) in there where you can distribute it to literally any possible Technique and make it stronger based on the amount of said type of energy.

You can't just say "Esdeath used energy on that feat then she scales", at least prove that this kind of scaling is even possible.

Thats all from me.
Click to expand...
AGK isn't like those verses, but you're in denial if you don't realize that Esdeath's ice manipulation powers are based on her internal energy/power.

The Ice Calvary are explicitly stated to be holding energy in them from having been made.

Makahadoma can only be used once a day due to the amount of energy it used.

In the past, Esdeath couldn't use her ice manipulation after spending a lot of energy.

There are Teigu that are based on using the caster's energy.

Esdeath's user her energy and Mine uses mental energy for example.
 
If it was rejected in the pass and made into a discussion rule then there's that. Just cause it was from long ago doesn't mean it's still not correct
 
BlackeJan said:
If it was rejected in the pass and made into a discussion rule then there's that. Just cause it was from long ago doesn't mean it's still not correct
Click to expand...
That's bad logic, remember that it was a discussion rule that Bleach couldn't be 5-B through the planetary stuff and that the Memories of Nobody movie can't be discussed anymore if it's canon?

Both of those are overruled currently.

What was discussed and made into a rule in the past about Esdeath's storm no longer works. In fact, the 3 days statement is no longer part of the argument since it doesn't exist for Esdeath's feat, it's 10,000 soldiers.
 
There's a lot of discussion rule that are still to this day are still implemented. I honeslty don't know how Memories if Nobody is canon when it's still considered non canon
 
Blackejan, I'm just gonna ignore that. We had a discussion rule for Memories of Nobody that it's not canon and now it is canon because Discussion Rules aren't perfect and set in stone, they can be overruled. Memories of Nobody is now canon on the wiki.

This is one of those examples as Esdeath's discussion rule is based on outdated information that is no longer valid. Now may you please stop derailing.
 
I see the argument point:

If Esdeath's ISCIC is 250 petaton TNT, and we assume she took 10,000 Ice Cavalries to make one ISCIC and she can summon 4 at a time then she can tap into 100 Teratons of TNT (Large Country level). But she also said she needs a few days to prepare it so her usual yield before ISCIC amp should be measured by energy per second (total ISCIC yield / 24 days / 60 minutes per hour / 60 seconds per minute).

How many ice cavalries had Esdeath summoned and stockpiled at maximum? She did say it took a few days to stockpile those ice cavalries and she can release them to create ISCIC (which may or may not amplify herself in return). So the mechanism of preparing for ISCIC and the effects of using ISCIC needs to be discussed, except the attack potency yield of ISCIC attack itself yields 250 petaton TNT.

Also, as a matter of presentation, we may as well present the key states of Esdeath as:

"(yield 0) at BoS base form | (yield 1) at EoS base form. (yield 2) amped by ISCIC. (yield 3) with the ISCIC attack."
 
Jasonsith said:
I see the argument point: If Esdeath's ISCIC is 250 petaton TNT, and we assume she took 10,000 Ice Cavalries to make one ISCIC and she can summon 4 at a time then she can tap into 100 Teratons of TNT (Large Country level).
Click to expand...
Yes, she displayed making 4 with a snap of a finger, 8 casually, and potentially 63 in a short time as a presentation.

But she also said she needs a few days to prepare it so her usual yield before ISCIC amp should be measured by energy per second (total ISCIC yield / 24 days / 60 minutes per hour / 60 seconds per minute).
This is incorrect, she had been making the 10,000 Ice Calvary over an unknown amount of days. In fact, the Ice Calvary are introduced in the manga the day before the final battle starts and that is also when it's stated Esdeath made 10,000 of them.

So this is not true.

How many ice cavalries had Esdeath summoned and stockpiled at maximum?
10,000 Ice Calvary.

She did say it took a few days to stockpile those ice cavalries and she can release them to create ISCIC (which may or may not amplify herself in return).
It took an unknown amount of days, we literally don't know when she started, all we know is they were introduced as being of 10,000 in amount the day before the final battle and Esdeath said she had been making them for days when activating Ice Storm.

So the mechanism of preparing for ISCIC and the effects of using ISCIC needs to be discussed, except the attack potency yield of ISCIC attack itself yields 250 petaton TNT.
These are already in the calc itself.

Also, as a matter of presentation, we may as well present the key states of Esdeath as:
"(yield 0) at BoS base form | (yield 1) at EoS base form. (yield 2) amped by ISCIC. (yield 3) with the ISCIC attack."

We should probably label her as:

Akame Ga Kill! Zero! | Beginning of Series | End of Series Base Form | End of Series (ISCIC Amp) with ISCIC attack.
 
Antvasima said:
It doesn't seem to be a rule anymore: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Discussion_Rules#Bleach_Rules
Click to expand...
Exactly, Ant.

Discussion rules can be removed if they turn out to be incorrect, such as it was with Bleach.

AGK doesn't even have a rule for Esdeath after looking this over, so there is no need to be saying Esdeath's storm can't be discussed.

Although, it would be nice for DT to jump in as he did help with the new calc and approve of it and the scaling added at the bottom.
 
Well, you can try asking him. Just remember to say what you need help with in the title, and to tell him that I would appreciate the help.
 
You're making a few mistakes here, you keep saying that she doesn't scale to the full 6-B power in one bursts when that's not even the calc's ratings. The calc is High 6-A from it's storm effects. The storm was made from 10,000 ice calvary that Esdeath made and provided the energy for. Esdeath has shown to casually make 4 and up to 63 in a short time. Esdeath scales to making 4/10,000th of the storm and possibly up to 63/10,000th of the storm. That is what she is scaling to, a fraction of the storm since she's demonstrated to casually make a fraction of the power needed to supply the storm.

I know what the scaling is and I disagree that making 63 soldiers means that her ice power is literally scaled to 63/10,000 of the full yield, that is my entire point of saying that 6-B energy required to make 4 soldiers does not mean that they are 6-B in AP.

What you're also forgetting is that Esdeath was not only amped from this, but Esdeath still provided the energy to make the storm.

You're stating we should ignore that Esdeath powered the storm with her soldiers that she made.

The Supreme Teigu is not just a machine thanks to Minister Honest allowing Dorothea to mess with it using Alchemy, it's a living machine.

Yeah I know she provided energy to make the storm, it was a one time power up that takes her days of charging up.

I am stating that the soldiers are not 6-B thus she should not be High 6-B or 6-A via dividing by number of soldiers just like how normal she would not be 6-B with her ice even when she is capable of making 4 ice soldiers. Remember that beforehand freezing an entire lake made it so that she was out of ice powers in the immediate fight afterwards. That is not 6-B energy.

The teigu is not a living machine else Akame would have killed it, that is a fact. It might look like it is living but it is simply a machine and none of that matters to my point, it has never displayed 6-B durability that is the point.

This is false, she never stated 4 per day to be her limit. We literally see her make 63 for the Emperor.

Yeah after she charged for days. She is literally super amped in terms of amount fo ice she can use in a fight.

That's fair to believe and I wouldn't be opposed to it.

But it goes without saying that Calvary still have energy stored in them from Esdeath and 10,000 are needed to power the storm still.

There exists characters on the wiki with more energy in them than their AP like Fairy Heart Zeref who has infinite Magic but at best 6-A AP. Or the Juubi who was described to have planetary Chakra but is 6-A in AP.

The Ice Calvary being of lower AP than the energy inside of them is not an issue.

If this is fair then scaling her individual ice based on 63 or 4 soldiers would not make sense.

Yes I know that.

Dont see what you rpoint is since I am suggesting exactly that, also Juubi is High 6-A, not versed in fairy tail so I have nothing to say on that.

It is an issue when trying to scale her ice.

That's fair, but you can't ignore when one person's Teigu is clearly superior to another or a scaling chain with Teigu such as:

Esdeath > Tyrant Tatsumi > Stage 4 Tatsumi > Stage 3 Tatsumi = Purge Mode Shikouteizer.

I am not ignoring the scaling chain, I am making the actual scaling chain based on feats.

Purge mode durability > stronger than Wave's attacks as a whole but with weakpoints that are eaker than his attacks.

stage 3 tatsumi > purge mode durability assuming that to be higher than Low 7-B based on wave (ignoring my issue with low 7-B in the first place)

from then on the scaling is ok.

But at the end of the day tat is only above Low 7-B, 6-B and High 7-A do not scale to anyone but shikkouteeizer with acoupke of attacks.

The current scaling statement for the purge modes durability: Country level (Able to use Dark Attack without any backlash or damage to itself. Mostly unaffected by attacks from Wave and 3rd form Tatsumi who needed to team up to put a small crack in it)

Is for lack of a better term, trash.

This is not the post I was originally making but I realise some of that might be better for an overall AGK thread.
 
IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
AGK isn't like those verses, but you're in denial if you don't realize that Esdeath's ice manipulation powers are based on her internal energy/power.

The Ice Calvary are explicitly stated to be holding energy in them from having been made.

Makahadoma can only be used once a day due to the amount of energy it used.

In the past, Esdeath couldn't use her ice manipulation after spending a lot of energy.

There are Teigu that are based on using the caster's energy.

Esdeath's user her energy and Mine uses mental energy for example.
Click to expand...
The difference is that neither fo these amp their physicals unlike most shoounen energy they only amp their teigu powers. The only people that gets physical ability based on teigu power are Leone and Tatsumi for example.
 
Rocker1189 said:
I know what the scaling is and I disagree that making 63 soldiers means that her ice power is literally scaled to 63/10,000 of the full yield, that is my entire point of saying that 6-B energy required to make 4 soldiers does not mean that they are 6-B in AP.

I am stating that the soldiers are not 6-B thus she should not be High 6-B or 6-A via dividing by number of soldiers just like how normal she would not be 6-B with her ice even when she is capable of making 4 ice soldiers.
Click to expand...
You can disagree with it, but it's stated that to power the storm it requires 10,000 Ice Calvary.

That would mean that each Ice Calvary is holding at least 25 teratons of energy in them since 10,000 Ice Calvary could power the 250 petaton storm.

Does this mean the Ice Calvary are all 6-B? No it does not. We have characters on the wiki with high power storage (Juubi from Naruto and Zeref from Fairy Tail) but not AP equal to their storage.

Yeah I know she provided energy to make the storm, it was a one time power up that takes her days of charging up.
This is false, it's a one time ability that requires the power equivalent to 10,000 Ice Calvary.

The charging for days is a misconception.

Remember that beforehand freezing an entire lake made it so that she was out of ice powers in the immediate fight afterwards. That is not 6-B energy.
Another misconception and misinformation.

Esdeath running out of energy to freeze a lake was several years in the past after she first attained her ice powers.

In fact, Najenda hadn't left the Imperial Army yet.

Please stop misleading the argument.

The teigu is not a living machine else Akame would have killed it, that is a fact. It might look like it is living but it is simply a machine and none of that matters to my point, it has never displayed 6-B durability that is the point.
That's incorrect, Akame's Murasame does not kill all living things.

Dr. Stylish's living machines that still were capable of bleeding were unaffected by Murasame.

Dorothea was able to bypass Murasame through the Philosopher's Stone.

Dorothea was the one who added the Purge Mode into Shikouteizer, and Dorothea dabbled with Dr. Stylish's lab as well.

The Purge Mode was made by Dorothea using Alchemy which added biological features and functions to Shikouteizer, we even see danger beast like creatures absorbing the Emperor to take over Shikouteizer and enable Purge Mode with armor falling off to reveal flesh and eyes. In fact, Shikouteizer bleeds from it's hands.

Plus, it is then able to release further more creatures from inside that explicitly bleed and show organs.

It's a living machine, a product of Dorothea's Alchemy (someone who studied Dr. Stylish's living machines that were immune to Akame's Murasame) and Teigu science.

Yeah after she charged for days. She is literally super amped in terms of amount fo ice she can use in a fight.
This is false.

Esdeath never charged, you keep spouting this as if it's facts when it's not.

Esdeath was never charging, she was building Ice Calvary, she was conserving her energy and avoiding fighting the days before the final battle so she could build 10,000 Ice Calvary instead of wasting energy fighting.

Esdeath was not charging.

If this is fair then scaling her individual ice based on 63 or 4 soldiers would not make sense.
The Ice Calvary are like batteries holding Esdeath's energy explicitly.

The purpose of the Ice Calvary was to store Esdeath's energy while acting as replacement soldiers for soldiers they had lost before the final battle.

With 10,000 of them they had enough stored energy to power the High 6-A storm. Each Ice Calvary would at least be storing 6-B worth of energy.

This doesn't mean the Ice Calvary are all 6-B in stats.

I am not ignoring the scaling chain, I am making the actual scaling chain based on feats.
That's fair to do, but you're ignoring context below:

Purge mode durability > stronger than Wave's attacks as a whole but with weakpoints that are eaker than his attacks. stage 3 tatsumi > purge mode durability assuming that to be higher than Low 7-B based on wave (ignoring my issue with low 7-B in the first place)
That's not true, Shikouteizer did not possess weakpoints until the combined attack of Wave and Stage 3 Tatsumi formed a weakpoint on Shikouteizer.

Wave alone never hits the weakpoint.

In fact, Wave did not contribute much of the energy needed to make that weakpoint as Stage 3 Tatsumi alone made a similar crack in Purge Mode Shikotueizer's armor without Wave's help.

Whenever Wave attacked Purge Mode Shikouteizer alone he literally could not scratch it.

Stage 3 Tatsumi was forcing it on the defense and cratered it's armor as I showed above.

But at the end of the day tat is only above Low 7-B, 6-B and High 7-A do not scale to anyone but shikkouteeizer with acoupke of attacks.
Stage 3 Tatsumi will be scaling to Purge Mode Shikouteizer per his current descriptions:

At least Island level, likely higher (Was capable of making Purge Shikoutazer go on guard, but was unable to do any damage)

Which is false because in this scan I showed above we see him cause a crater in Purge Mode Shikouteizer's armor.

The difference is that neither fo these amp their physicals unlike most shoounen energy they only amp their teigu powers. The only people that gets physical ability based on teigu power are Leone and Tatsumi for example.
Esdeath does display being amped by her storm she made with her stored power.
 
>You can disagree with it, but it's stated that to power the storm it requires 10,000 Ice Calvary.

That would mean that each Ice Calvary is holding at least 25 teratons of energy in them since 10,000 Ice Calvary could power the 250 petaton storm.

Does this mean the Ice Calvary are all 6-B? No it does not. We have characters on the wiki with high power storage (Juubi from Naruto and Zeref from Fairy Tail) but not AP equal to their storage.

You seem to have this misconception that I think they are 6-B that is my entire point, her ice soldiers are not 6-B despite using 6-B energy, why would her ice attacks be the same.

>This is false, it's a one time ability that requires the power equivalent to 10,000 Ice Calvary.

The charging for days is a misconception.

I know she is not literally charging for days, the point is that it is not somethign she can just whip out.

>Another misconception and misinformation.

Esdeath running out of energy to freeze a lake was several years in the past after she first attained her ice powers.

In fact, Najenda hadn't left the Imperial Army yet.

Please stop misleading the argument.

There is 0 indication that she got more powerful than then regardless of how long ago it was. The best you can say is that she might be more powerful now.

>The Ice Calvary are like batteries holding Esdeath's energy explicitly.

The purpose of the Ice Calvary was to store Esdeath's energy while acting as replacement soldiers for soldiers they had lost before the final battle.

With 10,000 of them they had enough stored energy to power the High 6-A storm. Each Ice Calvary would at least be storing 6-B worth of energy.

This doesn't mean the Ice Calvary are all 6-B in stats.

Again none of this actually counters my point.

> That's not true, Shikouteizer did not possess weakpoints until the combined attack of Wave and Stage 3 Tatsumi formed a weakpoint on Shikouteizer.

Wave alone never hits the weakpoint.

In fact, Wave did not contribute much of the energy needed to make that weakpoint as Stage 3 Tatsumi alone made a similar crack in Purge Mode Shikotueizer's armor without Wave's help.

Whenever Wave attacked Purge Mode Shikouteizer alone he literally could not scratch it.

Stage 3 Tatsumi was forcing it on the defense and cratered it's armor as I showed above.

Ok.. again the shikotueizer still does not show 6-B durability at any point.

>Stage 3 Tatsumi will be scaling to Purge Mode Shikouteizer per his current descriptions:

At least Island level, likely higher (Was capable of making Purge Shikoutazer go on guard, but was unable to do any damage)

Which is false because in this scan I showed above we see him cause a crater in Purge Mode Shikouteizer's armor.

Why is this island level in the first place, yet again shikouteizer has no tier 6 durability feats.

> Esdeath does display being amped by her storm she made with her stored power.

She sure does, nothing states it is physical though.

>It should also be noted that the Teigu Users that destroyed the Ice Calvary and the Elite Soldiers that were grouping up by the dozens to hold down the Ice Calvary were all physically amped by the Teigu Scream and even WoG states this to be so. This even includes Stage 2 Tatsumi who was fighting base Esdeath on the same battlefield. And they still would not be 6-B.
 
Rocker1189 said:
You seem to have this misconception that I think they are 6-B that is my entire point, her ice soldiers are not 6-B despite using 6-B energy, why would her ice attacks be the same.
Click to expand...
Esdeath is shown to be able to output 6-B energy to be stored in her Ice Calvary, therefore she could put out 6-B ice attacks if she wanted.

I know she is not literally charging for days, the point is that it is not somethign she can just whip out.
However, outputting 4-63 Ice Calvary is something she can whipe out as demonstrated: Casually Esdeath was able to make 4 with a snap of her finger, and possibly 8 at a time up to 63 in a short unknown time when demonstrating to the Emperor.

There is 0 indication that she got more powerful than then regardless of how long ago it was. The best you can say is that she might be more powerful now.
It is getting quite tiresome discussing with you when you keep spouting misinformation and not even displaying scans to prove your point. Najenda literally stating Esdeath is stronger than when Najenda was part of the Empire (Esdeath froze the lake with Najenda as her Co-General.

Again none of this actually counters my point.
It's proof Esdeath is able to output 6-B energy.

Ok.. again the shikotueizer still does not show 6-B durability at any point.
Shikouteizer is 6-B in stats. It also endured it's ow Supreme Beam exploding in it's chest.

Why is this island level in the first place, yet again shikouteizer has no tier 6 durability feats.
Look above.

She sure does, nothing states it is physical though.
Her physicals do scale through Trump Card Akame. Trump Card Akame was destroying Esdeath's ice and ice attacks and Esdeath could physically match her.

And they still would not be 6-B.
Look above.

Edit: Could you please provide scans for your future points, I've been providing scans that have debunked your's and you have yet to provide a scan supporting your stances.
 
Uhhh... long thread. Can someone summarize the most important stuff for me? Sorry for not reading the entire thing.

I think the current point of debate whether Esdeath scales to 4/10000 of the storm or whether her striking strength scales to her ice powers should she do, right?

Regarding the 4/10k idea: How confident are we that the 4 ice soldiers she creates contain the same amount of energy per soldier as the 10k she created?
 
> Esdeath is shown to be able to output 6-B energy to be stored in her Ice Calvary, therefore she could put out 6-B ice attacks if she wanted.

No she has been shown to be able to store 6-B energy in her ice calvary when the ice calvary themselves are not 6-B, that is it.

> However, outputting 4-63 Ice Calvary is something she can whipe out as demonstrated: Casually Esdeath was able to make 4 with a snap of her finger, and possibly 8 at a time up to 63 in a short unknown time when demonstrating to the Emperor.

All after she had been sotring up energy.

> It is getting quite tiresome discussing with you when you keep spouting misinformation and not even displaying scans to prove your point. Najenda literally stating Esdeath is stronger than when Najenda was part of the Empire (Esdeath froze the lake with Najenda as her Co-General.

I would admit to having forgot this.

> It's proof Esdeath is able to output 6-B energy.

Not as an attack

> Shikouteizer is 6-B in stats. It also endured it's ow Supreme Beam exploding in it's chest.

Does this have any calcs showing it to be 6-B? Because if not, no it is not 6-B in all stats. And if so it should have had its durability scaled to its supreme beam. That 6-B attack was clearly its strongest move.

> Look above.

Same

> Her physicals do scale through Trump Card Akame. Trump Card Akame was destroying Esdeath's ice and ice attacks and Esdeath could physically match her.

The ice would not be 6-B in durability either just like her ice calvary.

> Could you please provide scans for your future points, I've been providing scans that have debunked your's and you have yet to provide a scan supporting your stances.

No, you have showed scans that literally barely impede on my point but the one stating that Esdeath was stronger. At the same time you misinterprete my points while showing scans to "debunk" those interpretations.
 
DontTalkDT said:
Uhhh... long thread. Can someone summarize the most important stuff for me? Sorry for not reading the entire thing.
I think the current point of debate whether Esdeath scales to 4/10000 of the storm or whether her striking strength scales to her ice powers should she do, right?

Regarding the 4/10k idea: How confident are we that the 4 ice soldiers she creates contain the same amount of energy per soldier as the 10k she created?
Click to expand...
Reading my and IMade's most recent replies should give an idea, but basically I think the current scaling to the supreme teigu sucks, due to its not scaling to its 6-B attack in anyway but with just that attack.

I dont think that her individual ice attacks are 6-B even after saving up over the last few days, this is show by her ice capvary being take down by groups of elites soldiers else they would be tier 6 too individually, which needless to say sounds extremely wrong.

And I certainly do nto think she is tier 6 physically, all in all I think the overall scaling for AGK at the moment is bad.
 
Gonna be honest here chief

I don't know if scaling to the strongest attack that no one tanked is okay

We sure as hell don't do it for Fate
 
Exactly. And this is something that seems to be done throughout the scaling chain of AGK. Though I am rereading to find out.
 
DontTalkDT said:
Uhhh... long thread. Can someone summarize the most important stuff for me? Sorry for not reading the entire thing.
I think the current point of debate whether Esdeath scales to 4/10000 of the storm or whether her striking strength scales to her ice powers should she do, right?

Regarding the 4/10k idea: How confident are we that the 4 ice soldiers she creates contain the same amount of energy per soldier as the 10k she created?
Click to expand...
The two points of contention right now seem to be on wether or not Esdeath should scale to the 4/10k and the currently rated 6-B mech.

In regards to the ice soldiers, Esdeath was shown making all the ice soldiers easily, even those made of the 10,000 from before the final fight.
 
Schnee One said:
Gonna be honest here chief
I don't know if scaling to the strongest attack that no one tanked is okay

We sure as hell don't do it for Fate
Click to expand...
The 6-B calc is from the Supreme Beam.

Purge Mode Shikouteizer tanks it's Supreme Beam blowing up in it's chest.

Stage 3 Tatsumi breaks Shikouteizer's armor.

Stage 4 Tatsumi overpowers the Supreme Beam.

What's the issue here?
 
IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
The 6-B calc is from the Supreme Beam.

Purge Mode Shikouteizer tanks it's Supreme Beam blowing up in it's chest.

Stage 3 Tatsumi breaks Shikouteizer's armor.

Stage 4 Tatsumi overpowers the Supreme Beam.

What's the issue here?
Click to expand...
The attack fgot canceled before it got fully charged into a 6-B attack you can even see in the same scan you link the colur and explosion are not the same:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ZReQ_Dd-...?title=MTc2LjI1MS4yNy4xODg=040_1552015950.png

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/ALJGwfPBO...?title=MTc2LjI1MS4yNy4xODg=042_1552015950.png
 
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