• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Aizen Kyoka Suigetsu Hax Addition

Status
Not open for further replies.
11,497
3,073
Many people compare KS with Genjutsu, so I posted in reddit why they are not the same.

In the scans provided, Genjutsu has feats of affecting the living, and souls inside vessels (Edo Itachi, but it also has contradicting feats with Infinite Tsukuyumi not working on Edo's, but enough of Naruto. This is a Bleach thread.)

KS has feats of affecting souls and souls inside vessels (Vizards using Gigai's in Karakura Town).

The difference is that while Genjutsu has affected human bodies, KS feats are affecting the individuals soul. The 5 senses are manipulated through the soul, as Bleach characters usually are using their own soul form in battle.

EDIT: It should be noted that Aizen explained that Kyoka Suigetsu is a Spell base Illusion. It was also stated by Aizen that it doesn't work on blind people, however, that was change by the author later on when used his spell on Barragan which had no eyes.

Is very important to note that Reiatsu users can still see with this six sense called Reikaku but they can't see through Kyoka Suigetsu illusions with it. Even Ichigo learned to use the Reikaku ability in the Fullbring Arc.

Novel revelatio: It seems that KS power is able to affect the Shinigami's six sense of Reikaku which allows them to see their enemies as energy bodies without the need of eyes.

Quote: "But his visual, auditory and olfactory senses as well as reikaku should not be functioning properly."

I propose Aizen's KS hax should be change to affecting all of the individual senses through the soul directly instead of the physical body once the spell of KS is released. (This includes all five senses, and the additional "six" sense included in fiction.)
 
I'm not sure about this but it can make sense although we never have seen Aizen use his ability on a normal human before, and he never used it on Orihime so we have a small lack of counter proof so I'm gonna be neutral about it either way
 
Aizen only used his Illusion powers on soul beings, and souls inside vessels. Using KS against a human would fall under the vessel soul type, but he lacks feats of using KS against a human body.
 
Aizen himself stated it only effect 5 senses

The expert captain Yamamoto used this point and uses the 6th sense to catch aizen

Just because in bleach the 6th sense some times megre with Sight doesn't mean Aizen can manipulate the 6th sense
 
Because Aizen always tells the truth amirite?

Yama was ran through with KS meaning its weakness kicks in. That being if you are touching the blade, no illusions.

The 6th sense that was stated to be their primary way of fighting? he same one that allowed Chad to smack Shrieker around despite not being able to see or here him? That also made him aware of and let him react to Bulbous G before he could properly see him? (I didn't think Chad would be this useful for debates).
 
Yamamoto touched the blade and felt KS reiatsu. Everyone uses the 6th sense unconsciously, they would had seen Aizen if Yamma could, but there's no mention of Yamma using that to see Aizen.
 
Does that mean that characters that are reaistant or immune to soul manipulation will be resistant/immune to KS' effects?
 
YungManzi said:
Genjutsu has affected souls before though...Whatever though...not a Naruto thread, so I won't stress it.
No they didn't. In the link I posted above is explain in detail. Please don't derailed the thread.
 
@Applelord

I'm less trying to derail and more so trying to debunk a false notion (I even said I won't stress it simply because this is not a Naruto thread, but since you brought it up in the OP, I can't just leave it be). Genjutsu works on Bijuu while they are sealed....and they obviously aren't phsically present while being sealed.

So in that sense, genjutsu has worked on non-physical entities.
 
@Yung

That is a being inside a vessel which was explained in the second paragraph and how it was also contradicted by a superior genjutsu failing.

@W0NDER

Pretty much yeah. KS works by affecting the soul so resistance to such a thing would obviously nerf the effects. You should take into account that Bleach souls resist soul manip already so just soul resist wont let you shrug off KS.
 
@Anonymous

That's not the same thing. I don't even understand how you can make that argument.

Edo Tensei is not the same as bijuu being sealed.

A sealed bijuu doesn't have a physical body at all, completely different from an Edo Tensei zombie.

A bijuu is a completely seperate entity which exists as pure chakra within their jinjuriki. They don't even have physical bodies while they are sealed.

And to say that they can only be genjutsu'd because of their connection to their jinjuriki is completely unfounded, and frankly makes no sense within the context of the story.

Edit:

In other words...Edo have physical bodies, Bijuu don't (While sealed).
 
Inside a jinchuriki = inside a vessel. A vessel is a container, ie it holds something. They both do just that.

And where are you getting "biju don't have physical bodies inside jinchuriki". Don't tell me kunai lack a physical form when they are placed in a scroll. Biju exist as pure chakra normally. It isn't a state they take just because they are sealed away.

Edo tensei is the body the spirits are inside. The vessel is very much physical, just like the jinchuriki (the biju's vessel) is

Completely separate despite the fact jinchuriki dying if they are removed. A symbiotic relationship like theirs cannot have them be completely separate.

I didn't say that. I never said anything about it working like that. Biju can be genjutsu'd inside a jinchuriki because their chakra (them) is able to be interacted and messed with by the genjutsu user since it isn't completely sealed away.

Edo's ARE the physical bodies, not what is being sealed. In this scenario

>Soul = biju

>Edo tensei = jinchuriki
 
The Biju in Naruto share a similar body shape to souls' which are connected to the living world only through chakra; Kakashi and Sakumo talked about this in Limbo, and we don't have any info of the form souls' take when they move on to the pure land.

Souls in Naruto wander on Earth connect through chakra/energy, and we haven't really seen their true form in the Pure Land. Genjutsu affects the five senses of the physical body to control the enemies chakra/energy, therefore, using Genjutsu on a beast made of energy isn't far fetch.

Even if we equalize energies for both verses on purpose, Bleach souls' are made of Reishi a.k.a. spiritual matter while energy in Bleach is called Reiryoku a.k.a. spiritual energy. Chakra is half spiritual energy, but 0 spiritual matter/atoms.

Genjutsu doesn't have feats of working in this type of souls. It would had work if Bleach souls' were made of spiritual energy/Reiryoku since is half chakra/energy, but they are not.
 
I posted new info. When you add all of this up Kyoka Suigetsu is different from Genjutsu.
 
The only genjutsu that have possibly a feat of working on souls is shisui's mangekyo genjutsu and even that is debatable as itachi seems only incappable of using his body as he wanted and kotoamatsukami ony seemed to make regained control of his body .

Kyoka affect the soul so no "genjutsu/illusion immunity" will prevent it's effect unless the victim also have immunity to soul manip

"All of your arguments so far have played out in the palm of my hand"
 
Yama was ran through with KS meaning its weakness kicks in. That being if you are touching the blade, no illusions.

you need to touch the blade before he release it infront of you,not when it's already realeased
 
I'm pretty sure staff had disagreed with this before which is why profiles of any verse with mind manipulation doesn't even work like this
 
I haven't seen a single staff comment on here, and for the most part I saw this beinf agreed with.

Any other verse not working like this is a non reason when many verses work in a pretty particular way unlike any others, and I am doubtful you can say "any other verse" when there are a lot of verses in the wiki you likely know nothing about.
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
I haven't seen a single staff comment on here, and for the most part I saw this beinf agreed with.

Any other verse not working like this is a non reason when many verses work in a pretty particular way unlike any others, and I am doubtful you can say "any other verse" when there are a lot of verses in the wiki you likely know nothing about.

Maybe because this literally isn't the first time apple has brought this up on a crt...

As well as the site not even using tiers like this for mind manipulation in the first for something that's not even mind manipulation
 
What staff said before doesn't matter, we change opinions and agree to things we didn't agree to before all the time.

You are literally the only person that has mentioned mind Manip. Maybe I read it wrong, but Apple's post from beginning to end only mentions what Kyoka does - affecting the five (now six) senses.
 
Just want to point out that Barragan can still clearly see, so Aizen's statement isn't contradicted.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top