Aegislash Line Intangibility Removal

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Where does this come from? Like nothing about this evolution line ever showcased intangibility. Yeah, it's a spirit, however it's possessing a physical sword. And before you say "it's Ghost type", there is a reason why we don't consider Decidueye intangible at all. Not all Ghost Types are intangible. This family has no reason to have it, especially when normal human can touch them and they have never been shown to have gastly bodies like most other ghost types. This should be removed.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Non-Physical Interaction is a thing for Pokemon you know.

Also, since when did we not consider Decidueye intangible? I never heard of this at all until you pointed this out.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

That doesn't argue any of my points. Non-Physical Interaction doesn't make something suddenly Iintangible nor proves it.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

It definitely does on the "normal humans can touch them" point. Everyone in the verse has non-physical interaction.

And in the worst case scenerio, this would only debunk Aegislash being a passive intangible, not someone who can become actively intangible. Someone being touched isnt an automatic disqualification against having intangibility in general.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

You have to prove the positive. Shown me anything that proves that Aegislash can manipulate it's intangibility. You all have yet to prove he had it in the first place.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Im pretty sure its never been a requirement to prove someone has active intangibility, only passive constant intangibility as if they're always intangible.

 

[PaChi2]

Now that we are at it, please remove shedinja's for the same reasons.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

You have to prove that they have this abiltiy when they have never shown such a thing nor have a statement having such a thing. Only thing you have is that it's a ghost possessing a sword. But then you have to prove that this posession makes the object intangible.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Also, since when did we not consider Decidueye intangible? I never heard of this at all until you pointed this out.

We've long considered this the case. Or at least we should have seeing as nothing about Decidueye has ever been intangible nor does it have evidence of being so.

 

[The_man_with_the_Midas_touch]

I thought all ghost types were considered intangible because normal and fighting type moves cant touch them?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

>nor have a statement having such a thing

Besides being a ghost type, which the type in itself is already intangible to at least 2 other attributes (normal and fighting moves)? And this is without factoring pokemon's non-phyiscal interaction into this as well.

>We've long considered this the case. Or at least we should have seeing as nothing about Decidueye has ever been intangible nor does it have evidence of being so.

See above. In fact, Decidueye also has intangibility on its page and it being a ghost type is the exact explicit reason for having this. So I still doubt this has ever been the case, even before I originally left the site.

 

[PaChi2]

I thought all ghost types were considered intangible because normal and fighting type moves cant touch them?

Let me introduce you to the concept of "game mechanics".

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Uh what? Ghost types not being hit by normal and fighting moves is absolutely not game mechanics.

 

[Antoniofer]

Pokemon is pretty vague regarding their types, rarely have any meaning outside game mechanics. I mean, there's no mechanical difference between punching a wall and launching a rock to it, and yet ghost types are immune to the first one but not to the second.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Pokemon is pretty vague regarding their types, rarely have any meaning outside game mechanics. I mean, there's no mechanical difference between punching a wall and launching a rock to it, and yet ghost types are immune to the first one but not to the second.

Because again, Pokemon in the verse all have Non-Physical Interaction, which is why any type of move that isnt normal or fighting is able to come in contact with ghost types.

From what I remember here at least.

 

[Ionliosite]

Since throwing a bone to an Archen wouldn't work due to the bone being ground type, I'm pretty sure this should be considered game mechanics.

 

[PaChi2]

Uh what? Ghost types not being hit by normal and fighting moves is absolutely not game mechanics.

When a guy is explicitly a possessed sword. Or a possessed husk. In other words, physical objects with a supernatural inhabitant. And there is no further proof that they are intangible besides "ghost type", then you can start thinking of game mechanics. Dood.

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

I thought ghost type automatically get the ability?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

False equivalance. Flying type mon are "immune" to ground types simply because they fly above the ground to stay out of ground type moves range to not be hit by them. That in itself is considered game mechanics.

Ghost types being untouchable is a thing that happens literally everywhere in the franchise. Its not a game mechanic in the slightest.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

'Being Ghost Type" is such a dumb reason. Like there is more to ghost types than simple spirits such as curses and spectral energy to even manipulating shadows, not just being a spirit. Even then lets discuss this Immunity to Normal and Fighting moves. You realize this contradicts your argument? Pokemon need to use a special move or an ability to have normal or fighting moves (which includes laser beams and energy blasts btw), but suddenly this NPI stops working? So it's suddenly not Game Mechanics? You realize the nonsensical nature of this right?

This then extends to the issue of assuming all Ghost types are intangible which I remember being an issue in the past. We simply say "they are Ghost type" as the only justification without no evidence that the two correlate. You seem to decide what is and isn't GM based on convenience.

 

[Antoniofer]

Lauching a rock a damaging an intangible being would suggest that the rock has npi, not the one that launched it (you may argue that pokemon can infuse a normal rock with aura or something, but most pokemon don't do that).

There's neither a real difference between Vaccum Wave and other flying type attacks, and yet ghost types are affected by the last one.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

>Even then lets discuss this Immunity to Normal and Fighting moves. You realize this contradicts your argument. Pokemon need to use a special move or an ability to have normal or fighting moves (which includes laser beams and energy blasts btw), but suddenly this NPI stops working?

If your argument is what I think it is, this only means that normal and fighting type moves specifically lack non-physical interaction unlike other types of moves. Which is why that pokemon would need an ability to have these 2 specific attribute moves come in contact with ghost types, which cant be done in the normal fashion.

And im pretty sure this has always been how we've treated Pokemon's NPI. Anything but normal and fighting moves gets NPI.

 

[PaChi2]

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

But Pokemon by nature have NPI. You are so willingly selective in deciding what has NPI and what doesn't when the most obvious and most supported answer is that all Ghost Types don't have Intangibility. Matter of fact, you have yet to prove this claim. You have yet given any evidence to support the fact that all Ghost types by nature are intangible. Some being actual spirts =/= All are, this is fallacious.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

>But Pokemon by nature have NPI

This doesnt mean everything in their entire arsenal of moves has NPI apply to them though. Which is painfully consistent in Pokemon's case since Normal and Fighting moves are explicitly treated throughout the entire franchise as being the only type of moves that can't come in contact with ghost types. And as we both just pointed out here, special abilities are needed so that these 2 types can come in contact with ghost type mon. Without alternative means, these 2 types can never come in contact with ghost types.

Why assume normal and fighting moves would get the NPI when the entire series has shown us the exact opposite?

 

[Antoniofer]

Other examples involve rock, ground and steel move (or melee in general): how is that a Machamp can't hit a ghost throw Karate Chop, but suddenly it can damage them with Earthquake or Bullet Punch; men, what's even the difference between Megapunch, Dynamic Punch and Bullet Punch mechanically? of of these are melee attacks.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Easy answer: elemental moves are the ones that have the ability to hit ghosts. Not non-elemental moves like normal and fighting, which are again, the only 2 moves consistently treated as being useless against ghost types.

 

[PaChi2]

>Bite: NPI

>Headbutt: No-NPI

>Whatever Feint is supposed to be: NPI.

> Low kick: No-NPI

> Rollout: NPI

>Body slam: No-NPI

And on, and on.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

"Why assume normal and fighting moves would get the NPI when the entire series has shown us the exact opposite?"

You mean like Aegislash and Decidueye's intangibility? Oops, did I catch that?

Sorry if that was rude, but you see how this logic applies to the Pokemon I have mentioned right?

 

[Antoniofer]

Sounds more of a weakness in ghost types that an additional application in elemental attacks, they can be even damaged by Hail.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Ghost types are also damaged by normal hail and sandstorms btw. And not just by the Pokemon moves, but natural ones. Or are we going to say that even the natural storms themselves have NPI?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

It doesnt really apply. To argue against Aegislash and Decidueye is to argue against the entire ghost typing within itself Dragon as thats the reason why these guys have intangibility.

Normal and fighting moves have always been treated as being useless against ghost types since the very start.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Ghost types are also damaged by normal hail and sandstorms btw. And not just by the Pokemon moves, but natural ones. Or are we going to say that even the natural storms themselves have NPI?

When has this happened?

 

[PaChi2]

Ghost types are also damaged by normal hail and sandstorms btw. And not just by the Pokemon moves, but natural ones. Or are we going to say that even the natural storms themselves have NPI?

Of course natural storms havr NPI. If a gust has NPI why not a storm?

 

[PaChi2]

When has this happened?

When you enter a desert, for example, in Ruby, with a duskull, the pokemon gets damaged by the sandstorm.

 

[Antoniofer]

At this point most ghost types have, at most, Selective Invulnerability/Intangibility, depending how are they despicted. Any verse specific aside, there's no really difference between elemental attacks and melee attacks, with the exception of electricity (current) and fire/ice (temperature), Iron Tail its an contundent impact, Sandstorm is simply damage caused by sand's friction, Vine Whip its another impact type attack (it can also be cutting), etc.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

It doesnt really apply. To argue against Aegislash and Decidueye is to argue against the entire ghost typing within itself Dragon as thats the reason why these guys have intangibility.

No it doesn't Kukui.

Nothing in the series has ever stated that "All Ghost types are intangible" Kukui.

There are more things to being "Ghost Type: Kukui.

Not all Ghost types are spirits Kukui.

Not all possessed objects are intangible Kukui.

You have not proven this Kukui.

You are expecting me to listen and believe Kukui.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

When has this happened?

When you enter a desert, for example, in Ruby, with a duskull, the pokemon gets damaged by the sandstorm.

I never played Ruby so fill me in on this. Was this caused by a pokemons ability or was it the simple case of the pokemon being injured inside their pokeballs while the trainers traveling through the desert?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Have you never walked into a Snowy or Desert area in a Pokemon game? The Pokemon are injured outside of their Pokeballs, during battle, by a natural sand/hailstorm. No Pokemon moves involved. Sun and Moon as well as USUM had these areas.

 

[PaChi2]

Ruby was just an example, it happens in every desert in the series. Its the same pattern.

Turn 1: Sandstorm announcement.

Turn 2: damage.