Aegislash Line Intangibility Removal

[Dragonmasterxyz]

And please do not argue that this instead is Game Mechanics...

 

[NeoZex6399]

Yeah, not all ghost types are intangible, but that doesn't mean that those that aren't intangible aren't resistant to fighting/normal type moves.

Gengar or Dusknoir are intangible and literal ghosts while Pokémon like Marowak-A or Golurk are just pokemon with spiritual powers.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Ah its that kind of thing. NVM I know what your talking about now.

Edit: Nvm.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Yeah, not all ghost types are intangible, but that doesn't mean that those that aren't intangible aren't resistant to fighting/normal type moves.

Or we can go with this.

If this is the case, then wouldnt the ghost types that aren't known to be literal ghosts just get psuedo/limited intangibility then? Like to normal and fighting moves but nothing else beyond this?

 

[Antoniofer]

There's no in-verse explaination of what makes a ghost-type pokemon a ghost type? Like, if they use spiritual energy and that normal-type pokemon are immune to that type of energy would be a rasonable explaination why they aren't affected by it.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

There's no in-verse explaination of what makes a ghost-type pokemon a ghost type? Like, if they use spiritual energy and that normal-type pokemon are immune to that type of energy would be a rasonable explaination why they aren't affected by it.

For what its worth, there is the matter of the Spirit World, which is confirmed to be where ghost types come from. And the spirit world in pokemon has actual souls from the dead, of both people and pokemon.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

......That's literally what I've been trying to say. My argument is simply that not all Ghost types are intangible. Nor do I truly care about their resistance to fighting and normal moves. My issue was that we assumed all Ghost type mons were intangible just because most are spirits, but not all are. Pokemon like Decidueye are Ghost type due to it's power over spectral energy and not that it's an intangible spirit. Aegislash and its line are spirits, but are in physical swords and are thus no longer intangible. This goes for other ghosts possessing objects. This logic for Decidueye also applies to Golett and Golurk.

I simply believe that the non-spirit Ghost Types simply have no intangibility due to Normal and Fighting move equalization being....iffy tbh. But I ain't going to go over that here.

 

[NeoZex6399]

By the way, Pokémon being damaged by weather is the peak of game mechanics, unless you tell me that Pokémon like Rotom or Yveltal can be damaged by random sand.

 

[Antoniofer]

So is there an actual explaination? Are normal type pokemon immune to that matter of the Spirit World. They explain why normal/fighting type attacks (note, the attacks in general, not type, but if there's one for the types it also works) do not work on them?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

By the way, Pokémon being damaged by weather is the peak of game mechanics, unless you tell me that Pokémon like Rotom or Yveltal can be damaged by random sand.

This is not how game mechanics work. For Yveltal, it can be an inconsistency, but other Pokemon can be damaged by sand and hail. Not to mention this delves into an argument from incredulity.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

So what about other things like if a planet explodes? If someone is say 8-C but is a ghost and they die from the explosion, are they not intangible? Or would it simply be the force of the explosion from something ridiculously stronger killing them?

 

[Antoniofer]

Maybe a godlike sandstorm?Also, it can still cause damage regardless of durability, as more dangerous storms can fill the lungs with sand and limit the view of others.

 

[NeoZex6399]

If these are weathers created by a pokémon yes, they can damage a pokémon, but a natural sandstorm? Nope, if that were the case no Pokémon trainer or simple human could hardly be in a desert for long.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Would a pokemon being hurt by weather reach the levels of game mechanics where Kirby can be hurt by spikes, Mario and Luigi can be hurt by random goombas, Sonic can be hurt by robots or falling off a ledge, etc.?

 

[Antoniofer]

Those mentioned are more related to AP/Durability tho (higher feats debunk), but the issue here is more about the nature of the pokemon types.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Let me put it this way, certain Pokemon getting hurt is an inconsistency. Unless you wanna say natural storms have NPI as well. This simply shows that even Spirit-like Ghost mons can enter a non-intangible form (as we know these beings can grab and make contact with Physical objects.

 

[NeoZex6399]

The natural habitat of Maractus is the desert, just saying.

What I mean to say is that in sandstorm routes are found pokémon that "don't resist" sand damage, but despite that you find them with the bar of life always complete, why would a pokémon live in an ecosystem that is constantly damaging? Is obvious that is game mechanics, the idea that a pokémon like Gengar, Rotom or fighting type or plant type pokémon can be damaged by sand from a natural storm is stupid.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

If these are weathers created by a pokémon yes, they can damage a pokémon, but a natural sandstorm? Nope, if that were the case no Pokémon trainer or simple human could hardly be in a desert for long.

That's more of an AP/Durability issue and less of a GM issue.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

The natural habitat of Maractus is the desert, just saying.

Yeah, it doesn't mean much. It getting hurt by sand is a GM. Doesn't make Weather Damage as a whole a GM.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

I agree with Dragonmaster.

 

[Schnee_One]

This is why we can't have nice things.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Dragonmaster FRA

 

[The_Smashor]

Everyone in the verse has non-physical Interaction

Words cannot express the anger and rage I feel from this statement. There are so many layers of fallacy in this statement.

Anyways, I agree with Dragonmaster. Would this remove Intangibility from other Ghost Types that are clearly physical objects, as well? The ones I can think of off the top of my head are:

Shedinja (Although this dosn't matter very much since Wonder Guard is a thing)

Spiritomb (More so the little rock that holds the spirits, though that was probably obvious)

Chandelure (Maybe)

Dhelmise (Is literally a possessed anchor)

Alolan Marowak (Kind of obvious)

Mimikyu (Is a ghost thing under a doll)

Ignoring that Ghost types would no longer be naturally intangible, and it would be more a state they naturally activate. Which makes a lot of sense. We see Ghost Types walking on the ground all the time. Are you telling me the ground has Non-Physical Interaction? No. Ghost Types are naturally able to be physically touched, but can go intangible. Look at most scenes with Ghost Types. When their not trying to be spooky

While there is the question of "Well what about their immunity to normal and fighting?"

The thing is, immunities in Pokemon are completely arbitrary. Is there any reason for Fairies to be immune to Dragon Types? Is there any reason at all that Jigglypuff can take a Draco Metor without a scratch? Is there a reason that you can't hit a Dodrio with an Earthquake? No. No there isn't. They simply have an extreme resistance to those powers, and this is no exception.

I love Nintendo, but sometimes I feel like wank runs rampant for them on this website, especially with Mario and Pokemon. Not with things like abilities or AP, but what isn't written on the profile. There's people saying Bowser leads with Transmutation, that even baby Pokemon will always use the best move for the situation. "Everyone has non-physical interaction". That's when you stop doing this for fun and start doing it for glory. It honestly makes me upset that people from the fanbase I come from can't be truthful, and that they would lie for the sake of making their characters seem stronger, or stretch the truth to the point where it's nearly impossible to recognize.

Thanks for coming to my TED talk, everyone. Sorry about the rant.

 

[Schnee_One]

Smashor has convinced me, I agree with Dragon

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

For Chandelure, I believe it is actually a ghost. Although I may be remembering my Pokemon Refresh wrong.it may be just the flames. Spiritomb is intangible as it's actual spirits....just the keystone is not intangible. Everything else I agree with.

 

[The_Smashor]

@Dragon

Yeah, the keystone is what I ment by the little rock that holds the spirits.

 

[NeoZex6399]

Literally all pokémon can touch intangible things, one of the main "missions" in Red/Blue/FR/LF is to defeat the soul of a dead Marowak.

 

[Antoniofer]

I also agree with Smashor, weaknesses in pokemon are purely arbitrary and most of them do not work outside game mechanics.

At least is there an example of a ghost turning intangible, and then, someone is capable to hit it while intangible?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Pokemon having NPI I really have no issue with (ya'll can argue that on your own). However, one issue I have with Pokemon on this site is that everything has to be equalized and thus reasoning is basically created out of thin air to equalize it. Need I refer back to out Normal Type and Fighting type discussion (ironic ain't it?) where we had the whole "Untrained Kick vs Trained Kick" discussion? Not every Pokemon type needs equalization, some things are simply verse specific.

 

[Schnee_One]

I'm sorry.

Person: All characters have Non Physical Reaction

Smashor: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9vJhwOCgYxE

 

[Antoniofer]

Now I wonder what Non Physical Reactions are.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

>Words cannot express the anger and rage I feel from this statement. There are so many layers of fallacy in this statement.

No, there isn't. Everyone in the verse is able to make contact with spirits, thus they have non-physical interaction. This isnt a fallacy, it is an ability that the verse in itself has. We dont suddenly call out other verses where everyone has NPI a fallacy either, so dont try and pass this off as if its a specific issue for Pokemon please.

>We see Ghost Types walking on the ground all the time. Are you telling me the ground has Non-Physical Interaction?

Not that I disagree with making this active intangibility, but this specific line of reasoning is just ridiculous no matter how much you try and slice it. No sane animator is ever going to draw spirits literally phasing through the ground while "walking" and we see this with many ghosts throughout fictions (Avatar/Legend of Korra, Danny Phantom, etc.). Just because we see ghosts walking doesnt at all mean it goes against them being natural intangibles.

>No. Ghost Types are naturally able to be physically touched

And again, with a verse with people who have NPI, this specific reasoning means absolutely nothing.

>The thing is, immunities in Pokemon are completely arbitrary. Is there any reason for Fairies to be immune to Dragon Types? Is there any reason at all that Jigglypuff can take a Draco Metor without a scratch? Is there a reason that you can't hit a Dodrio with an Earthquake? No. No there isn't. They simply have an extreme resistance to those powers, and this is no exception.

Again, false equivalence for ground and flying types and I already explained this above. Flying types like Dodrio being "immune" to ground type moves is nothing but bullshit since the "immunity" comes from flying types being able to fly out of a ground types move range for...well...flying. Its not they're actually immune to the moves. Obviously you are right that this wouldn't be immunity either way, just resistance, but this resistance is more based off avoiding a move instead of no-selling it.

Ghosts types are completely different from this since their "immunity" comes from actually being able to no-sell move types as being untouchable by them. Like how you can't affect what isnt there, you also cant affect what you cannot touch. So in this sense, its an immunity like how we treat immunity here. We give immunities based on what isnt there and what can't be effected.

>"Everyone has non-physical interaction". That's when you stop doing this for fun and start doing it for glory. It honestly makes me upset that people from the fanbase I come from can't be truthful, and that they would lie for the sake of making their characters seem stronger, or stretch the truth to the point where it's nearly impossible to recognize.

Then why don't you do the most logical thing and, I dont know, make a content revision thread to voice these issues? No offense, and I really mean no offense, but sitting idly by and purposely not doing a thing about whatever it is you find "wank" yet you'll criticize people who will side with it is extremely hypocritical and it honestly bothers me very much. Sorry if this comes off as offensive, but if you really don't like what people put on these pages, actually speak up about it where it matters please. We have these rules for a reason and yet some people here won't follow them when calling out material they disagree with.

That said, "everyone having NPI" is not wank here. No more so than other verses where everyone and their mother have it as well for effecting their ghosts and Pokemon is no exception from this.

 

[The_Smashor]

Ghost types are clearly different from regular ghosts, even in Pokemon. For example, Marowak's ghost is not a ghost type. It's it's own seperate things. And Pokemon cannot interact with it, even if they try. Show me one clip, one shred of evidence that Pokemon other than ghost types can interact with normal ghosts. The burden of proof is on you.

You seem confident that this isn't wank, so prove it to me.

 

[Cropfist]

Everyone in the verse is able to make contact with spirits, thus they have non-physical interaction. This isnt a fallacy, it is an ability that the verse in itself has.

No, the spirits are physical

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Everyone in the verse is able to make contact with spirits, thus they have non-physical interaction. This isnt a fallacy, it is an ability that the verse in itself has.

No, the spirits are physical

They most definitely aren't, especially when ghost types have been flat out shown to be intangible to other souls. Or did Haunter phasing through Ash and Pikachu's souls get forgotten?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Meanwhile I am just like "I got what I wanted"

I'll just remove Intangibility from Aegislash and Decidueye now. You kiddies have fun.

 

[The_Smashor]

One. One time. One time in the first season of the Anime, which is hilariously inconsistent with the regular canon (Ex. Pikachu using Tackle)

Also, scans or it didn't happen.

 

[Schnee_One]

That's it, make a CRT for this.

This heat needs to stop