Adventure Time. Piece by piece CRT

[Goodyfresh]

@RatherClueless:

Yes, you did miss something very important. In the Lich's vision that he presented to the King of Ooo, in which he showed him the Primordial Monsters from before time, Orgalorg was visible among the monsters. Meaning that yes, Orgalorg is one of the Primordial Monsters. There's also the fact that that scene was pretty clearly meant to imply, without directly stating, that Lich was one of those primordial monsters. Also, in the Aventure Time Encyclopedia (which however may not be canon, it's debatable) Hunson Abadeer says that even he doesn't remember his own origins, as he existed since before time, when "there were only monsters" like Orgalorg and Lich according to Abadeer.

Most of your other points do seem valid, however! I will grant that you are probably correct about them. Although, Orgalorg's weakness to planetary gravity is weird/inconsistent in its portrayal, so I don't know what to think about it. A couple more things to address:

I went back and checked and you're right, Marcy did have the VK absorbed pre-Stakes, evidenced by her possession of his telekinesis power. However, it would seem she didn't have him "properly" absorbed, based on the portrayal in the show of how she gained a higher level of power than before after absorbing the Dark Cloud. . . .but, there is no way to know what exactly this means, it is debatable. Regardless, this makes Finn being able to hurt her while only 12 even more impressive. As I said, he's gotten like, dozens or hundreds of times stronger since then. While you may be right that pre-Dark Cloud Marcy was not on the same level as her dad, she was still very high-tier as far as this series' characters go.

Also, you didn't address the fact that Finn was able to survive/hold his own against a bloodlusted Fer. That is crazy-impressive, really his most impressive feat of all without the grass arm. The fact that he didn't immediately get killed or maimed within two seconds of Fern becoming bloodlusted and going for the kill shows that Finn at that point isn't too far behind the Grass Arm, strength-wise. My guess is that he has been regularly continuing the training that Rattleballs showed him how to do, and has become much stronger as a result.

 

[RatherClueless]

Alright. I didnt miss the episode, but I just didnt see Orgalorg in that one shot (he is by far the smallest and weakest looking one of the bunch xD so cute OwO). The issue I have with the Lich being primordial is that I atleast assumed that it came into existance with the comet, which would have been kinda contradictory. What you are saying would imply that the Lich existed, then didnt and then came back into existance with the comet. AT lore gets stupid interesting really fast.

About it being more impressive. Not really since it was heavily implied that her absorption is far from a 100% thing. An example of this would be (the) Moon being able to casually walk of sunlight, while Marcie cant. The VK was also very unimpressed by everything Finn did, not being able to hurt him at all. The VK never really had a propper feat anyways and was simply "above Marceline", whatever that might be. I dont think Marceline is weak by any means though. She is most certainly a High-tier in the verse, but (imo) not a Top-tier.

Finn dodged/cought most attacks against Fern. The one attack that did scrape him actually injured him -> If Fern connected even one propper attack, that would have been the end of the fight.

I'd personally also like to differenceiate between Fern useing the actual grass sword and his "shape shifting/vine ability", since the grassword under Finn only really started to get these crazy feats when it started to produce those weird vines/the grass arm. The grass sword also has very weird propperties (since its cursed and all), allowing Finn to do things like killing the Fear Feaster -> In some cases it might be more so a case of cutting with "hax", rather than with AP. (A good example for a sword with weird cutting propperties would be that of Wonder Womans being able to cut between atoms IIRC. Not saying its the same though!)

Never the less, the grass sword is crazy fast and obviously Finn got stronger throughout the show! The issue here being, that going from lets say mid tier 8 to mid tier 7 would already take a factor of over 1000000(!)

 

[Goodyfresh]

@RatherClueless:

Marcy was upper-high-tier pre-Stakes, as you say. But her performance against Golb's monster in the finale shows that she is indeed top-tier after absorbing the Dark Cloud.

We already know the Catalyst Comets are able to become one with all of 3+1 dimensional spacetime, so there's no reason the Lich can't have come into existence with the Green Comet while simultaneously having existed before time began.

Since when do writers of fiction have any awareness of the level of numerical multiplier needed to upgrade a character by several tiers? DB Super had characters in the 48 minute long Tournament of Power upgraded from 3-A to Low 2-C, a literally infinite upgrade by two orders. Luffy in One Piece has gone from Large Building Level to Large Mountain Level, even though it is logically preposterous that Luffy has gotten a hundred million times stronger. That's just how the portrayal of tiering tends to be, due to the fact that writers do not know math. When I think about it, Finn likely has gotten literally millions/billions (or more) times stronger, regardless of how silly that seems logically. Saying he can't have gotten millions of times stronger because it seems illogical is an invalid argument by this site's standards, since that kind of thing happens all the time in works of fiction.

The fact is that whether he was being overwhelmed or not, Finn still at least survived while fighting Fern, which indicates he at least somewhat scales to him. As you said, he managed to actually block some of Fern's attacks rather than just dodging all of them, indicating his strength is at least somewhat on-par with Fern's.

I do agree that the issue of the Grass Sword/Fern's AP is iffy. I do get the sense from the show that it may not be a matter of AP, but rather some type of durability-negation hax. However, we have no actual proof that it is hax, and as such, we have to assume, by the standards of this wiki, that the abilities are based on AP, at least until proven otherwise.

 

[RatherClueless]

I am not saying he can't get that much stronger. It was more so a reply to you saying he got hundreds of times stronger.

The grass sword also cut the Lich (only very few weapons/things can even hurt the Lich), so it has most certainly special properties, we just don't know what they are.

I'd also like to emphasize the part about the difference between base sword and grass arm. ( At least that's how I see it)

My original comment was also about base Finn vs Fern, rather than robo arm Finn. Two different versions. (One being clearly stronger than the other)

also, Gumball Guardians top tier confirmed

 

[Goodyfresh]

I am not saying he can't get that much stronger. It was more so a reply to you saying he got hundreds of times stronger.
The grass sword also cut the Lich (only very few weapons/things can even hurt the Lich), so it has most certainly special properties, we just don't know what they are.

I'd also like to emphasize the part about the difference between base sword and grass arm. ( At least that's how I see it)

My original comment was also about base Finn vs Fern, rather than robo arm Finn. Two different versions. (One being clearly stronger than the other)

also, Gumball Guardians top tier confirmed

Ah, I see. Well clearly, me saying "hundreds" was due to me not giving it enough thought. The actual amount seems to be millions, billions, or even more. Lol, writers are usually reallyyyyy freaking bad/ignorant at math and physics. That's why they got their degree in something non-STEM related, ya know? Lol.

Well what we know about the Grass Sword's hax, is that it can harm dark entities/spirits/curses, even intangible ones like Fear Feaster. It's probably that particular hax, rather than any kind of durability-negation, that allowed it to harm the Lich, since the Lich is a demonic/cursed entity.

I don't know if there actually is any big difference between the grass-sword and grass-arm, AP-wise. There might be, but again, we don't have much actual proof. Regardless, Fern's body was formed from the arm, not the sword, anyway, when it combined with the Finn Sword. Finn's arm literally crawled away from his body and combined with the Finn Sword to form Fern, so even if you're right that the Arm>The Sword, Fern should still scale to the arm and thus to Orgalorg.

That robo-arm does seem to be pretty damn powerful, doesn't it? Sure does highlight just how impressive Peebles' scientific abilities really are. Makes sense though, since we're talking about the same woman who created the Gumball Guardians and discovered a formula for literally creating life from inanimate matter when she was still a child.

 

[Js250476]

I believe stuff like killing the fear feaster is non-physical interaction and I don't think there's any concert evidence it ignore durability against beings like the Lich. Fear Feaster was even saying "no mortal blade can harm" before being cut in half which to me highlights how the sword can effect these beings at all.

 

[RatherClueless]

Feat wise, yes the arm/the vines it produces are stronger. Fern should physically not be any stronger than Finn (I at least dont see why he should be), at least not without him useing his ability (the shape shifting), similar to how Jake is just as powerfull as a regular dog, untill he chooses to use his stretchy powers (thats at least what i wanted to say in the first post). We also later see Fern completely stomping Finn, when he actually used any of his "shape shifting" powers (Darkanine told me that he is probably "just mutated", but we actually see him just changeing his apperance many times, so its not like its something he cant do. He needed to look different/wanted to be different aswell).

We also dont really have an idea of what Orgalorgs durability might be. For all we know he is the biggest glass canon in the verse (His durability seems to be based more so on stretchyness, than anything else)

 

[RatherClueless]

Anyways, we should propably go over all the points and see what are things we can/cant agree on and try to see where we still have open debates and where not/makeing sure we are all at least somewhat on the same page of things.

^just quickly quoted myself. Once we are done with the Fern/Orgalorg/Finn thing, we should probably talk about this. I think I'll go to bed for now though.

 

[Goodyfresh]

@RatherClueless

By the standards of this site we can only go by things which are definitively proven by feats. Since Fern's body was formed from the Grass Arm, he should be on the same level as the Grass Arm, unless shown/stated otherwise. Without shapeshifting, his level should be the same as the Grass Arm's while at volumes no larger than a human body (which was still very high-tier for this verse, from what we saw of the Grass Arm's feats), while with shapeshifting, his level should be up to the level of the Grass Arm when it turned giant.

We also can't assume that Orgalorg is a glass cannon. We typically assume on this site that a character's physical dura is on-par with their physical AP due to being able to withstand using their own attacks (this is due to Newton's Third Law of Motion), unless it is outright stated or shown that the character's durability is below their AP. And a weakness to gravity doesn't necessarily mean Orgalorg is a glass cannon; it just means that he has a weakness. Orgalorg was able to physically restrain the motion of the Purple Comet and stop its kinetic-energy, which should put his AP as At Least High 6-B (see below). By Newton's Third Law, if Orgalorg can use physical force that powerful, then his dura should be At Least High 6-B. Thus by scaling, the full power of the Grass Arm/Fern is At Least High 6-B.

Notice I am saying High 6-B rather than High 6-A now. According to this site, the tier of the dinosaur-killing meteor, the Chicxulub Impact Event, was High 6-B! And in A.T., the Green Comet was the Chicxulub meteor, meaning that the K-E of the Catalyst Comets should be High 6-B, and thus Orgalorg's feat of casually/easily restraining the Purple Comet should be At Least High 6-B. This whole time we were saying High 6-A, but we were wrong.

Conclusion: The Adventure Time upper-high-tiers and top-tiers should be rated At Least High 6-B!!!! This is by scaling to the K-E of the Catalyst Comets. Cool thing about this is that if we choose to accept it, we can have A.T. characters fight MCU characters

 

[Antvasima]

Can somebody politely ask Ultima Reality to comment here again? You can tell him that I would appreciate the help.

 

[RatherClueless]

@ Goody Its true that its not proven/stated that one is stronger than the other, but its not like its baseless either. If Ferns body truly had the same specs as the vines that subdues Orgalorg or amped Susan, then why would he choose to use the grass sword? His arms would be sharp enough. Also, seeing how the grass sword was blocked by the robot arm, I have no issues to scale that arm, but since Finn himself makes it very clear that that is by far his strongest body part, it doesnt feel right to scale it to "all of Finn"

We see that Orgalors body is indeed very elastic and stretch when he catches the comet and this would also explain, why he is so "weak" to gravity (Him catching the comet kinda reminded me of Luffy bouncing of canonballs lol).

I feel like I also "need to" open a can of worms I would have prefered to stay closed lol. That being the fact that a sword doent need to have higher AP to do more damage. In other words: A 100Joules slap will do "less" damage than a 100 Joules punch, which will do "less" damage than a 100Joules sword swing. The reason why I tried to avoid bringing this up, is because I dont think the wiki even acknowledges even the existance of "intensity" (not really the correct term here, but whatever. Maybe potency?). In other words, a punch of Finn would do less to Orgalorg, than any sword, due to the distribution of energy (I kinda feel like I am explaining the obvious here lol. Ofc a swords gonna do more than a punch XD)

Of course the "overall" damage will stay the same, but in one case we have just a painfull sting (across a large area), in the next a bruise (smaller area) and in the next a cut (very small area).

@Ant I told Ultima to stop by again

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thanks.

 

[Goodyfresh]

@RatherClueless again:

I think a better term than "intensity" when comparing swords to fists, would be "pressure." The same amount of force behind an edged weapon, results in a higher pressure than that amount of force behind a fist. Keep in mind though, that whether or not the true force behind a sword has to be, say, High 6-B in order to damage a High 6-B being, doesn't make it any less true that damaging or defeating a being of that tier makes the person "effectively" that tier--As long as they are using a sword, that is. Never thought of it before (and I know this has nothing to do with A.T., lol), but something like this could totally explain how Thor with Stormbreaker in Infinity War was able to bust through an energy-blast and barrier from the Complete Infinity Gauntlet, which should be something like Tier 5-A, despite the fact that Thor with Stormbreaker shouldn't be TOO far above High 6-B. The edge of Stormbreaker is very sharp, probably only a single molecule wide given it was forged using supernatural precision, so it should be able to bust through durability of a way higher tier than the actual force behind the weapon.

So what are your thoughts, then, on the At Least High 6-B rating for characters like Orgalorg? I think it makes sense, since the K-E of the Comets should be that of the dinosaur-killing meteor, and since Orgalorg was able to physically restrain the comet. Just because this was partly due to his "elasticity," doesn't mean it doesn't reflect on his physical tier, in the same way that we don't say that Luffy is less strong/durable than his showings just because his strength/dura come partly/largely from his elasticity. Regardless of how he did it, Orgalorg literally physically restrained and stopped the K-E of the Purple Comet. The reason for the "At Least" part in the "At Least High 6-B" would be the fact that Orgalorg seemed to be able to do so, restrain the Comet, quite casually. A rating of At Least High 6-B perfectly matches something you said a number of posts back, where you said that it's always been your opinion that the A.T. top-tiers are somewhere in the range of 6-B to 6-A.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

I don't see any actual reason to assume that Orgalorg is a glass canon other than "he is elastic". At minimum I can see something like "At least High 6-B, likely far higher" for the Top-Tiers of the verse if people are really so adamant in removing the Tier 5 stuff.

To elaborate on it a bit, the "likely far higher" part would come from stuff like Magic Woman's power being enough to boost the Elementals into their purest forms (which are heavily implied to be one with their respective elements in a universal scale going by what Bubblegum says), The Lich harnessing the Earth's life-force through his well of power, so on and so forth.

 

[RatherClueless]

@Goody I know that its pressure. I was more so wondering wether there is a word to dicribe the difference between pressure (intensity would actually be the right word if we were to talk about something like bundeling light with a mirror).

The wiki also defines a tier by joules, not by "who can slap who", so technically no (technically becaus, like I already said, I dond think this wiki gives a sh*t). Since Finn was physically pushing against Fern, rather than actually blocking the sword (except with his robo arm), this would actually matter. If we assume that the grass sword is as sharp as an obsidian scalpell, we are actually talking about a factor of over one million (lol). This would mean: baseline 6-B -> somewhere around 7-A or 7-B.

I dont mind the 6-B tbh. I actually even corrected my self quite a while agao, saying that I missread the chart and got tons of TnT and joules mixed up. The side I got the values from would actually put him somewhere around baseline low 6-B, so that should be fine. I also dont see an issue with a "likely/possibly (far) higher"

@Ultima The Elementals were stated to have some weird pseudo-nigh-omnipresence, however, they dont seem to be in complete controll over the respective element. PB states that she shares a mind with all the candy, but that seems really off, since when Finn and everyone else invaded the Ice Kingdom, Patience didnt notice and if she would share a mind with everyone within the Ice Kingdom, the why did someone actually need to go and tell her? Slime Princess didnt seem to notice that Finn, Jake or LSP werent actually slime either. However, the elementals in that form are a completely diffrent issue all together and I'll tackle them in a different CRT (especially Chatsberrys second key, coz holy sh*t, thats just f*cking dumb xD).

The Lich harnessing the earths power is, well, just that. Composite human (without prep) doesnt get a tier based on something like a powerplant, just because thats something we built lol. The Lich would be similar and should get a: at least "insert base tier", (likely) "insert Tier" (with prep time)".

The glass canon was more so a hypothetical and the "being elastic" was to ephasize that thats the reason he could catch the comet. If he was straight up at the level of the comet, he would have stopped it dead in its tracks, but instead he actually "gradually" deaccellerated it. A character like Luffy isnt a glass canon for being stretchy either afterall haha, just saying in things like fights, they behave differently to just straight up being rock solid.

I also think Ant wants your opinion specifically on what to do about the low 2-C rateing (since you are staff and all)

 

[RatherClueless]

@Goody Off topic. About Thor. Not sure where the high 6-B comes from (assumeing its Mjolnir), but the blast being 5-A would mean that Stormbreaker has a surface area that is somewhere around 4*10^12 to 2*10^13 times smaller than whatever caused that 6-B rateing. Thats quite a bit lol.

This would actually mean that the cutting edge would be thinner/somewhere around as thinn as an atom (roughly in the 5*10^-14m region, so still thicker than a proton). Oof. However, this is "only" 10million times thinner than something we can actually porduce today.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

@Clueless

The Elementals as a whole were basically consumed by the characteristics of their respective elements, and were mostly uncaring of the whole ordeal with Finn and Jake (Except for Flame Princess I guess). Slime Princess was in a dormant, basically drunk state when they invaded her kingdom, for example, and Flame Princess was so blind with rage that she couldn't think straight. Likewise, Patience didn't even care about Finn and Jake, and remained mostly cold and distant from everyone else (cause "ice-y" motifs and stuff). So yeah, i don't think their non-chalant behaviour contradicts them being Universal in scope.

Besides, them being one with their respective elements across the universe wouldn't make them Omniscient or something like that. So that point is kind of moot.

The whole point of the Lich harnessing Earth's energy through his well of power was regaining his strength and becoming powerful enough to destroy all life, though. Bubblegum implies that he was weakened both when Billy defeated him and during his early appearences in the series, so he had to recover his full power by converting Earth's energy into "unholy power".

 

[RatherClueless]

In that case the Lich would need a "in its prime" key.

When it comes to Patience, it still seems kinda off, that she shares a mind with everyone, put "one part of her mind" gets really excited about the fact and feels the need to tell her in person, when she should already know. We also have charcters like the Flame King who can move freely within all flames (seeing him appear in the candles for example), but he doesnt seem to be "omnipresent" within all flames (he thought his daughter would be alone), so what the elementals have, might be something similar.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

I don't think this is really necessary, like, at all.

The Flame King isn't an Elemental, he is just an inhabitant of the Fire Kingdom, and the forms the Elementals achieved after draining Magic Woman of her power were pretty clearly different from their normal states (Especially since Patience was herself an Elemental at the time and had access to her full power). They were pretty much reduced to their purest forms.

 

[Goodyfresh]

This is going to be veeery long (sorry Antvasima) due to me first making a couple more points, and then proceeding to basically sum-up al the points I have arrived at by now based on this thread in a numbered list:

I support the idea of separate keys for "weakened" Lich and "prime" Lich. That would explain why Billy was able to defeat someone as OP as the Lich using just a simple kick.

I think the stuff about the supercharged elementals has too many contradictions involved for us to assume anything more than what we get from the calc of Patience freezing a quarter of Ooo, which was calculated as Large Country Level+, and was something she did casually as a result of her mere presence, thus "At Least High 6-B, Likely Far Higher."

@RatherClueless: Whether or not Orgalorg "gradually" stopped the Purple Comet, it only took a few seconds, and Orgalorg did it casually. Also, Orgalorg pierced the body of the comet using its tentacle-things, significant because The Comet's physical dura should scale to its K-E since the physical essence of the Lich survived the Green Comet's impact.

I would like to point out that Finn, not his robo-arm but Finn's fleshy human bod, survived a body-slam through a table from an enraged Fer who used his shapeshifting to make his arm huge, during the episode Seventeen.The volume Fern increased his arm to seemed to somewhat match the volume of the Grass Arm during its best feats like beating Orgalorg. Meaning that in fact, even Finn's human bod should be somewhere in the High 6-B range. I propose that Finn without-the-robo-arm should be rated At Least High 6-B AP and Dura, while his robo-arm's AP should be At Least High 6-B, Likely Far Higher with a note that it is still weaker than Fern, though.

In conclusion, the following points are what I think I have arrived at:

1. Nobody except cosmic-entities like Prismo and Golb should be Tier 2 or anywhere near it.

2. The top-tiers like Orgalorg (and thus Grass Arm/Fern), Prime Lich, Hunson, Death, supercharged-elementals, should be "At Least High 6-B, Likely Far Higher" like Ultima said.

3. By the final season, even Finn's squishy human flesh-bod should be At Least High 6-B via somewhat scaling to Fern even when he shapeshifts, and Finn's robo-arm is "At Least High 6-B, Likely Far Higher" for being able to put up a genuinely kinda-even fight against Fern.

4. By point 3, anyone who should scale from human-bod Finn like pre-Stakes Marcy, Flame Queen, PB with non-supercharged elemental powers, Ice King, etc. should be At Least High 6-B. Marcy should be "At Least High 6-B, Likely Higher" since she's at the upper end among those characters, and Post-Dark Cloud Marcy should be "At Least High 6-B, Likely Far Higher" due to her performance against Golb's monsters. Similarly, Jake should be "At Least High 6-B, Likely Higher" and blue-shapeshifter-form Jake should get a separate key and be "At Least High 6-B, Likely Far Higher" as he single-handedly restrained one of Golb's monsters. Finally, as crazy as it sounds, even early-series 12 year old Finn should be in the 6-B range for being able to slightly bruise Marcy's face and make her feel pai.

Does all that sound about right to you guys? Ultima, RatherClueless, what are your thoughts? Antvasima, sorry again about the giant wall of text, I know you've discouraged me from doing that but I kinda just wanted to sum up everything I've thought of so far in this thread all in one post.

 

[JnSteHar002]

Seems good; I'll miss tier 2 Finn though

 

[Goodyfresh]

Seems good; I'll miss tier 2 Finn though

I won't miss Tier 2 Finn AT ALL, since he wouldn't be able to beat pretty much any other Tier 2 characters since the vast majority of them have a lot of hax that he couldn't handle. Lol. Tier-6 Finn, on the other hand, should have an actual chance of winning some matches, since plenty of Tier 6 characters don't have too many hax.

Anybody else wanna weigh in on my giant wall-of-text post? I think that one and this one are going to be some of the last posts I make in this thread, as I've pretty much arrived at what I think my final conclusions on this will be, and said everything I want to say.

 

[Antvasima]

@Ultima

Would you be willing to organise these revisions. I would appreciate it.

 

[RatherClueless]

I'll talk a bit about that wall of text in a couple of hours. Kinda busy.

 

[RatherClueless]

@Goody Alright, lets take a look at this.

Before I keep argueing the same point over and over again, I'll go and ask someone knowledgeble about the wikis standarts on this.

Hey Ant

I'll ask Andy.

Wether Fern used his shape shifting powers to throw the table or not, doesnt make much difference. (Also, Fern being mad and flipping a table is probably still less than when he actually tried to kill Finn)

Finn in the first couple seasons being 6-B doesnt make any sence at all. This is still a time when the guys in charge probably didnt know where they wanted to take this show lol. We are litterally talking about a Finn that got completely bruised up, by getting hit with a log in the face. Or how about that time Finn and Jake both agreed on that if the train that fell of the cliff actually crashed, they would have died? Or maybe that episode when they jumped off of some birds and broke their legs? Or even within that same episode Finn getting heavily injured by getting punched into the ground for like half a meter? (I know that these things are more so durability, but still) We also have a calced value for wizard Finn being in the Tier 7 region IIRC and wizard Finn>>>regular Finn.

We also know that Marceline can effectively choose which power of which vampire she wants to use. Assumeing that she only used Hierophants power and didnt try to go all out against some rando human kid she just met, doesnt seem too far of a stretch, especially considering her personality.

Honestly, just too many things that contradict a 6-B Finn in the first couple of seasons. The current main reasoning for Finn being 5-C in the first seasons is that he can fight on paar with the IK, howerver, the only time Finn overpowered the IKs magic/managed to break free from his ice was in the pilot episode. and this is completely diregarding that I dont even agree with the reasoning for the IK in the first place

Talking about Patience freezing over a quarter of Ooo, I still have an issue with the currently assumed size of Ooo, if characters like Norm (fairly odd parents) gets a "note" saying "via reality warping", they should get a "via transmutation", since there is noone that can convince me, that PB in that form can hit that hard lol.

Unless I missed something, I'd agree with everything else.

Edit: Andy thinks the entire situation is strange and isnt sure lol. Skalt also answered the question on my wall and agrees, but doesnt know the wiki standarts either.

 

[Goodyfresh]

@RatherClueless

All of your points actually do seem valid, so I will concede all of them to you! Your arguments against those of my points which you disagree with seem completely logical to me, so you have convinced me You're right, Finn bruising Marceline's face in Season 1 was probably just a very large outlier, at that point in time. Glad you agree with everything else besides what I said about Season 1 Finn and possibly the stuff about Patience freezing a quarter of Ooo.

Damn, Finn really got a hell of a lot stronger over the course of the series, didn't he? Rattleballs' training must have done wonders. . . .who knew that repeatedly burning your ass on a grill and getting eggs thrown at you all day can make somebody that much stronger, right? LMAO.

Getting serious again: It seems we have now mostly reached a consensus, and if Ultima ends up agreeing with the consensus-points I compiled in my list other than the ones you (RatherClueless) have perfectly logical reasons for disagreeing with as I just mentioned, then people can finally get started on the edits once Ultima organizes all the revisions! Sound good, Ultima? How about you, Antvasima?

One last question, RatherClueless: What are we going to rate Season 1 Finn, and how are we going to figure out ratings for Finn during the seasons in-betwee before he eventually reached the lower end of High 6-B by the final seasons? As you pointed out, it seems like there was a ton of inconsistency and outliers involved with the portrayal of Finn and Jake's tiers before the writers finally decicded exactly what they were doing.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Don't quote large walls of text.

 

[RatherClueless]

I'd still like to wait for Darkanine to try to debunk anything here, since he is responsible for most Tier 5 reasonings, as well as aagreeing with the tier 2 reasoning. I dont think we need to wait for the 2-C thing though, since thats just very very questionable at best and has next to no actual basis and none of the points seem to make actual sence.

 

[Goodyfresh]

I'd still like to wait for Darkanine to try to debunk anything here, since he is responsible for most Tier 5 reasonings, as well as aagreeing with the tier 2 reasoning. I dont think we need to wait for the 2-C thing though, since thats just very very questionable at best and has next to no actual basis and none of the points seem to make actual sence.

Ah, well okay then. Seems fair.

I did end up editing my post to remove the quoted giant wall of text, and to ask you one last question, RatherClueless! I will just copy-paste that question here:

What are we going to rate Season 1 Finn, and how are we going to figure out ratings for Finn during the seasons in-betwee before he eventually reached the lower end of High 6-B by the final seasons? As you pointed out, it seems like there was a ton of inconsistency and outliers involved with the portrayal of Finn and Jake's tiers before the writers finally decicded exactly what they were doing. It seems we engaged in so much discussion over what to rate the characters in the later seasons once they reached At Least High 6-B, that as far as I can tell (but do correct me if I am missing something), we totally forgot to reach a consensus about what Season 1 Finn and Jake should be rated, and what their ratings shuold be in the seasons in-between.

 

[RatherClueless]

There is one thing I find to be weird though, thinking about it (and sadly it somewhat contradicts one of the points I made earlier). Glob who is stronger than Orgalorg got destroyed by something he mistook for the comet. Orgalorg cought the comet. This leaves three options.

1: Orgalorg has less AP than durability, while Glob has more AP than durability.

2: Orgalorgs elasticity allowed him to "cushon" the impact, unlike Globs almost crystal like body

3: None of the above and we just misinterpretaded something, regarding the AP of the comet vs the AP of Martins ship lol

I also went around asking calc group members about the pressure thing and how that should be used. From what I can tell Antoniofer agrees with me, but not sure to what extend (interms of how it should be used) lol. DontTalk didnt answer yet.

Edit: I guess there could be point 4, being a combination of 1 and 2.

 

[RatherClueless]

@Goody This CRT was mostly only for the (imho) highly wanked characters. I was planning on doing CRTs for every character in the verse, since there are more issues than just the tier rateing. We would actually need to look and see if we can find good feats for early seasons Finn (he was mostly just tanking stuff lol).

 

[Goodyfresh]

@RatherClueless

Okay, I can see what you are getting at!

Yeah, it seems that perhaps Martin's ship may have actually had a HIGHER K-E than the Comets usually have. Which seems weird, but not impossible.

About the "pressure" thing allowing for much lower physical force to harm beings of a certain durability with edged weapons: This isn't just an issue with A.T., but with this entire wiki, if we do in fact think that it's an issue. Addressing it would require major policy-changes across the board and content revisions for a ton of different profiles throughout this wiki. Something like this would definitely need a separate thread concerning it and would require a lot of input from guys like Antvasima in order to reach a proper consensus. Essentially, making any changes regarding how we treat this would require us to make new policies on this wiki across-the-board for how we treat characters who use edged weaponry. Undertaking such a task on this wiki would be MUCH bigger, more convoluted, and more difficult than this Adventure Time CRT undertaking, and look at how difficult just THIS has been. Of course hey, if you're willing to take on such a daunting task, be my guest. Not something I'd be willing to do myself, though, it would be a ton of work. Lol.

 

[RatherClueless]

Well, thats why I actually titled my question " A question about wiki standarts regarding pressure. " The values are just "place holders".

Edit: DontTalk just answered: " A question about wiki standarts regarding pressure." Or in other words "the wiki is f*cking lazy and only really cares when we are taking about factors around 10^12." This is the difference between 10-B and low 7-C lol

 

[RatherClueless]

Anyways. We should probably come to an end here.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, we still preferably need Ultima's help with organising the accepted revisions.

 

[RatherClueless]

I know that xD. I was talking about the debateing for where we should put stuff. (especially since I have 2 more finals coming up in a week and I still need to study lol). For the Tier 5 stuff I wanted to wait for Darkanine anyways. Does anyone know where he went for the last, well, week by now I guess.

 

[Antvasima]

I don't know, no, and he does not tend to answer my messages.

 

[Js250476]

If I had to guess most likely real life/college is keeping him occupied.

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose so.

 

[Goodyfresh]

If I had to guess most likely real life/college is keeping him occupied.

If he's in fact in college, then he's probably very busy with studying for and taking final exams at the present time, since this is the time of year for that. So yeah, it might be like another week or two before we hear from him, lol.