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Addressing Roshi's Feat

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Yeah, I misremembered. I retract the part about claiming people were present there. The other points still stand and the argument is in fact hypocritical (I did not call Zamasu_Chan hypocritical btw, just that argument). I don't know what else you call it when the statement is treated as flowery language to keep someone from getting upgrade, then actually considering it valid, then going back to calling it a throwaway line when it gets in the way of another upgrade. It is what it is and me calling it out in a non-hostile manner is not me misbehaving. I am simply making a point, which obviously didn't sit well with you, for some reason so idk.

Anyway, apologies for derailing. Let's get back on the topic. Just to note that we currently treat Piccolo's feat as baseline Moon level because there is no calc for it, or no way to calc it because there is no panel showing anything worthy of calcing.
 
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I don't quite understand how calling Zamasu's argument hypocritical is any different than calling Zamasu hypocritical? I mean being hypocritical depends on your words and actions, to begin with. But this might just be my understanding.

I get your current argument- but it doesn't really work when no one here was arguing it was legit then and now safe for you and DDM, who are currently on the same side.

Also, your thread to upgrade Popo hinged on a statement and one feat produced by people much stronger and faster than Popo himself, wouldn't that be far less than what's been provided in this one? If we were to go with an equivalent here: Roshi, Kami, and Piccolo all have 5-C feats and several statements pointing Roshi as 5-C as well as scaling proof from DBS.
 
I mean, I am not really looking to delve back on the AP related things because clearly the majority agrees with it. I just want to hear their arguments about how the speed should be handled.

Like, I have already laid out arguments regarding how it doesn't make sense with the progression of feats and Popo's statement and how everything else being brought up to support it is invalid and was rejected earlier. And you've also laid out your arguments. So I just want people who went "I agree with 5-C Roshi" to just make some sort of argument regarding how the speed should be handled.
 
Let's leave AKM alone please. He has not done anything bad here as far as I am concerned.
 
I actually like this hypocritical argument. I distinctly remember the time when the wiki did not treat Popo as lightning fast because the line was apparently "flowery language that wasn't literal", and I distinctly remember making a thread addressing the same issue as that statement along with the demonstration of speed completely implies it to be literal and not just another flowery language and I remember most people present in this thread agreeing with me. That's how Popo actually got upgraded.
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I mean, I was never there...
 
Let's focus on the main arguments rather than each other please.
 
I think the word people were looking for to describe the faster than lightning statement is "ironic". It's ironic how a statement used to upgrade the verse is now being used to possibly pass some previous speed feats as outliers. But I agree staff haven't done anything wrong and we should focus on topic on hand, not each other.

But anyway, given we have both a Sub-Relativistic speed feat and an FTL feat, faster than lightning could be interpreted as an understatement. Though, I still feel as if the FTL feat is an outlier for other reasons throughout saiyan saga to Frieza saga. But I suppose possibly Sub-Relativistic is fine if at least 5-C is.
 
me-patiently-waiting-399b1150e6.jpg

From Hop
 
I would also appreciate if we could get a bit more efficient.

We need to figure out how we should scale the various Dragon Ball characters based on our conclusions.

Or has this thread turned so long that it would be more efficient with a restart, with a summary regarding our conclusions and objectives, in order to get anything done here?
 
Just stumbled upon this thread, but I’m of the camp that Roshi should be fully 5-C (I’m not opposed to at least 7-B, possibly 5-C either, but I think there is good enough reasoning for a full 5-C)
 
Well, quite a lot of characters would unfortunately likely end up as "At least 5-C" until the Saiyan Saga, in lack of better/more specific options.
 
Antvasima said:
Well, quite a lot of characters would unfortunately likely end up as "At least 5-C" until the Saiyan Saga, in lack of better/more specific options.
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I’m sorry to interject, I know it’s supposed to be staff discussion. But unless Piccolo’s destruction of the moon gets an acceptable calc, ‘At least 5-C’ is pretty much the only option.
 
It seems so, yes. It will not look good at all, but I am not sure how to solve this in a better way.
 
Tien and Goku are both outright stated to have surpassed Max Power Roshi, and that Tien's Tri Beam outright surpasses Roshi's Max Power Kamahamaha. So they would be included in the scaling chain yes.
 
If Piccolo's destruction of the Moon happened roughly the same way in the DB Kai anime, I think that our rules allow us to use the timeframe from there to more easily calculate the feat.
 
Antvasima said:
If Piccolo's destruction of the Moon happened roughly the same way in the DB Kai anime, I think that our rules allow us to use the timeframe from there to more easily calculate the feat.
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The only difference is that we’re shown the moon’s destruction in the anime (2:32 - 2:51), but in the manga, it immediately cuts to the aftermath.
 
If there is an ambiguous feat in the manga then it is okay to look to the anime for more context. The manga technically can't give us an exact timeframe even if we can infer or assume that something happened quickly.
 
Maybe?
The anime’s here seems to be used to fill blanks rather then be the main source of scaling so we likely don’t need to do a separate calc for the anime.
 
Okay. Thank you. Would you or some other calc group member be willing to calculate the feat Damage?
 
Do we want to apply 5-C for now since we seem to have most people (including staff) good with the feat being considered not an outlier, and do possible speed and specific calculations on a different thread, or are we going to try and cover that here? If we are covering possible calcs/speed here I have some input id like to share, but if not I'll wait till a new thread for that is made if we want to wrap this part of the discussion up first.
 
Ap and Speed go pretty much hand in hand with each other, so we'd have to finish the speed discussion first before applying everything.
 
Well, Roshi's Ki attack reached the moon similar timeframes as Piccolo's did, so wouldn't it be around Speed of Light to FTL.

It means that King Piccolo's Ki attacks are faster than Roshi's and anyone above just gets Speed of Light to FTL speed upgrade.
 
We would need an actual calc of the Kamehameha’s speed before discussing speed.

And no, it wouldn’t be SoL - FTL, Piccolo’s moon bust was recently calced at Rel+ iirc.
 
Udlmaster said:
Well, Roshi's Ki attack reached the moon similar timeframes as Piccolo's did, so wouldn't it be around Speed of Light to FTL.

It means that King Piccolo's Ki attacks are faster than Roshi's and anyone above just gets Speed of Light to FTL speed upgrade.
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Pretty sure FTL for anyone before Namek Saga is a definite outlier, unless im missing something.
 
OK, well as far as the speed of the Kamehameha we know a few things.

1. Roshis Kamehameha reaches the moon in a short time frame since he does it in the middle of combat against Oozaru Goku and the moon is seen gone immediately after he fires it.

2. From the time it leaves Roshi's hands to when the announcer notices the moon is completely gone it is 2 pages in the manga with no indication of skipped timeframes.

3. We would be calculating the time it took for the wave to reach the moon logically as the major speed feat. Within the 2 page span it both reached the moon, and then removed it from the sky as well.

Then the question is, is it reasonable to use the anime timeframe, given the events are the same, and we can't know the exact timeframe from manga panels, or do we guess a reasonable timeframe for the manga?
 
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