Ada Wong (Resident Evil) vs Black Widow (MCU)

[Colonel_Krukov]

I mean, it's not obvious that they can do that

 

[Jibz]

Could i see a clip of it? Just to see if there's any form of a tell that Natasha would be able to notice as a spy.

 

[Galvino]

They flash bombed Leon and stunned him for a couple of seconds.

Could i see a clip of it? Just to see if there's any form of a tell that Natasha would be able to notice as a spy.

Right here, Leon is a pretty smart guy and was trained by the government and still didn't catch on.

 

[Jibz]

Yeah that is beyond bait, it literally beeps and then takes a pause before flashing. Let alone the fact that for her to use it without being blinded by all the writing she has to drop it on the ground first. How on earth is she going to pull that off when they are in the middle of a fight, does she just instantly use it at the start of the fight (if so ill need proof she does that in character) or what? Because Natasha aint about to give her time to set that whole motion up.

 

[Galvino]

Yeah that is beyond bait, it literally beeps and then takes a pause before flashing. Let alone the fact that for her to use it without being blinded by all the writing she has to drop it on the ground first. How on earth is she going to pull that off when they are in the middle of a fight, does she just instantly use it at the start of the fight (if so ill need proof she does that in character) or what? Because Natasha aint about to give her time to set that whole motion up.

I said earlier in the thread that this strat only works if Natasha isn't bloodlusted and if they have an exchange of words first or something. As for the beeps, it's evidently too quiet for someone to hear since Leon couldn't hear it. So unless Natasha has a feat for extremely good hearing, then the beeping doesn't matter.

Now is it in character for Ada to try this on someone other than Leon? Idk, I'm 50/50 on it. It depends on the situation.

 

[Jibz]

Why on earth would they have an exchange of words? She's literally out to win (not kill since sba has changed). Did she have a chat with the winter soldier before getting her ass beat? No.

 

[Galvino]

Why on earth would they have an exchange of words? She's literally out to win (not kill since sba has changed). Did she have a chat with the winter soldier before getting her ass beat? No.

I didn't say Natasha wasn't out to win. The idea is, when they get close enough, Ada will try and initiate an exchange of words when they're both aiming their pistols at each other or something. It's in character for Natasha to probably want to get intel from her enemy and then knock them out rather than killing them, so she'll go along with it. Ada could try pretending to give up and drop her gun and glasses on the floor and then, right before Natasha can knock her out, the glasses activate, Ada quickly picks up the gun and then boom. I never said or implied the sunglasses was a perfect argument, I just felt like bringing it up. Side note: Natasha didn't immediately shoot or fight when she met up with Yelena, I know she's her sister but Natasha still obviously felt like she could be severely harmed or killed anyway.

 

[Jibz]

It's in character for Natasha to probably want to get intel from her enemy and then knock them out rather than killing them

Yeah and why does that mean a trained Spy would let Ada just set up such a bait manouvere when she could easily just get her to give intel not in combat range.

Ada could try pretending to give up and drop her gun and glasses on the floor and then, right before Natasha can knock her out, the glasses activate, Ada quickly picks up the gun and then boom

If she does any irregular movements like taking off glasses she was fiddling with, and that make a beeping noise, Natasha would shoot her on sight.

Side note: Natasha didn't immediately shoot or fight when she met up with Yelena, I know she's her sister but Natasha still obviously felt like she could be severely harmed or killed anyway.

I love how you brought up the fact she was her sister, but then just swept it under the carpet. Also that still doesn't mean Natasha will suddenly let such an obvious manoeuvre happen to her.

It's not like im asking for much. I'm literally asking for a logically cohesive way for the glasses to be used. Others we disregard it as a wincon and the votes so far are null and void.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

Maybe she could be fighting her H2H, they "accidently fall off" mid combat as she gets hit in the face, and then Ada waits for the timer before making her move.

 

[Jibz]

So now you are both asserting different premises. One in which they are both held by eachother at gunpoint, and another in which they are in hand to hand combat. It's unfair for me to have to attack two different notions so yall need to get your story straight.

Maybe she could be fighting her H2H, they "accidently fall off" mid combat as she gets hit in the face, and then Ada waits for the timer before making her move.

As for this. Highly doubt that as for them to somehow fall off with Natasha (a trained spy) not being incredibly suspicious is unlikely that and the fact there seems to be a mechanism she needs to press for it to activate, and it'd be literally nigh impossible for her to press the mechanism and then have it "accidentally fall off" whilst fighting Nataha H2H

 

[Galvino]

Yeah and why does that mean a trained Spy would let Ada just set up such a bait manouvere when she could easily just get her to give intel not in combat range.

It seems so bait-ish to you because we're not them fighting. People watch movies or view any sort of fiction and act like they're smarter than the characters in the story only because they have information the characters don't. Natasha has no reason to ever think Ada's sunglasses is a flash bomb and would never expect it. As for range, in my idea, if Ada puts down her gun, Natasha won't put her guard down obviously but has no reason, once again, to assume glasses are gonna be the thing that catches her off guard. Natasha would be looking out for another gun Ada could be stashing away or something, not paying attention to sunglasses.

If she does any irregular movements like taking off glasses she was fiddling with, and that make a beeping noise, Natasha would shoot her on sight.

Now you're ignoring what I said before, Leon S Kennedy is not deaf and has never shown any sign of having bad hearing compared to a normal person, therefore the beeping will be too quiet for a normal person to hear. So, again, unless Natasha has a feat for REALLY good hearing, then the beeping is not worth bringing up. Ada, who is also a trained spy, will try and set up the situation in a way to not make it obvious as to what she's planning.

I love how you brought up the fact she was her sister, but then just swept it under the carpet. Also that still doesn't mean Natasha will suddenly let such an obvious manoeuvre happen to her.

Did Natasha aim a gun at her sister? YES. Did Natasha believe herself to be in danger and could be harmed? YES. Did Natasha believe she could get information from her sister if she didn't kill her? YES. This contradicts the idea that Natasha is always bloodlusted and will immediately, 100% of the time, kill someone even if she feels she's at risk. How am I sweeping it under the carpet or ignoring it?

 

[Jibz]

It seems so bait-ish to you because we're not them fighting.

"My scenario isn't logical so i'll make its illogicality a feature"

. People watch movies or view any sort of fiction and act like they're smarter than the characters in the story only because they have information the characters don't.

Natasha is a trained spy. That's the notion im following.

Natasha has no reason to ever think Ada's sunglasses is a flash bomb and would never expect it.

Ada has to fiddle it before the effect can occur, with beeping and text flashing on the glass, and i see no feasible way for Ada's glasses to just magically fall off on purpose without Natasha noticing. What? Does she pretend the recoil of a fist was harder then it truly was, something one of the greatest assassins would know inside out.

Natasha has no reason to ever think Ada's sunglasses is a flash bomb and would never expect it.

She'll have reason to think its something. And logic dictates, if something like that happens, its most likely a bomb or a flashbang. So she'll just duck and roll, that to me isn't too far outside the range of fancy.

As for range, in my idea, if Ada puts down her gun, Natasha won't put her guard down obviously but has no reason, once again, to assume glasses are gonna be the thing that catches her off guard. Natasha would be looking out for another gun Ada could be stashing away or something, not paying attention to sunglasses.

The goal is to WIN. Natasha would just knock her out, then check for hidden weapons to remove before tying her up, like literally any rational person would do in that scenario.

Now you're ignoring what I said before, Leon S Kennedy is not deaf and has never shown any sign of having bad hearing compared to a normal person, therefore the beeping will be too quiet for a normal person to hear. So, again, unless Natasha has a feat for REALLY good hearing, then the beeping is not worth bringing up. Ada, who is also a trained spy, will try and set up the situation in a way to not make it obvious as to what she's planning.

He never heard the beeping because they were a decent distance away, with all your scenarios being presented being she ends up face to face. So yeah she'd hear the beeping. Also if your argument is "she's smart she'll figure it out" ill assume she CANT figure out. Present a logically way for this to happen, or dont present it at all.

Did Natasha aim a gun at her sister? YES. Did Natasha believe herself to be in danger and could be harmed? YES. Did Natasha believe she could get information from her sister if she didn't kill her? YES. This contradicts the idea that Natasha is always bloodlusted and will immediately, 100% of the time, kill someone even if she feels she's at risk. How am I sweeping it under the carpet or ignoring it?

Because when she was fighting Yelena, that was her SISTER and she wasn't out to win the fight, she wanted answers. Incaps exist.

 

[Galvino]

"My scenario isn't logical so i'll make its illogicality a feature"

Nobody would expect their enemy to scream their intel across an entire park, of course Natasha is gonna wanna get closer to Ada if she wants the intel, especially if the enemy put down their weapon. Just because you don't believe it doesn't mean it's illogical. I already presented why it's possible and logical. If this is your passive aggressive way of saying you just don't think this scenario is likely, I'd rather you say that than saying the argument makes zero sense.

Natasha is a trained spy. That's the notion im following.

You should also follow the notion that Ada is also a trained spy as well (one that managed to trick and betray multiple entire organizations), so that cancels out your point. Also saying "trained spy" doesn't mean you're omniscient, it's possible for a spy to be deceived.

Ada has to fiddle it before the effect can occur, with beeping and text flashing on the glass, and i see no feasible way for Ada's glasses to just magically fall off on purpose without Natasha noticing. What? Does she pretend the recoil of a fist was harder then it truly was, something one of the greatest assassins would know inside out.

What do you mean fiddling? She didn't do that in the clip I linked. The same way Leon was distracted with his exchange of words with Ada, Natasha can be distracted as well, why do you keep acting like Leon is deaf and blind? Ada can drop her glasses in many ways, either mid battle or when she's dropping her gun to lure in Natasha. I don't care how unlikely you think it is, prove this scenario is 100% impossible or stop aggressively attacking the argument despite me never saying this outcome was more likely to happen than others.

She'll have reason to think its something. And logic dictates, if something like that happens, its most likely a bomb or a flashbang. So she'll just duck and roll, that to me isn't too far outside the range of fancy.

Prove she'll have a reason to think the sunglasses are something suspicious. Saying "she's a spy" doesn't prove anything. You know SBA has the battle in Central Park right? "Oh my god, why is that lady wearing sunglasses in a park like a normal person?! She's gotta be up to something!"

The goal is to WIN. Natasha would just knock her out, then check for hidden weapons to remove before tying her up, like literally any rational person would do in that scenario.

In my scenario, Ada is gonna try and initiate an exchange of words and stall for the sunglasses to go off before Natasha can get in range and knock her out. Natasha being stalled doesn't mean she won't try to win, she will try and knock out Ada at some point, it's just that her being in character can allow Ada to stall her.

He never heard the beeping because they were a decent distance away, with all your scenarios being presented being she ends up face to face. So yeah she'd hear the beeping.

Leon and Ada were only like 4-5 feet away from each other and I never said Natasha will be in Ada's face. When people are speaking at normal volumes, they don't need to get THAT close to hear each other, it doesn't make sense anyway since Natasha could find that risky because she could think Ada has a knife on her or something. I imagine Natasha would be close enough to actually hear what Ada could say at normal volume (and for the glasses to get her) but not close enough to risk Ada suddenly pulling something out of her pocket. So no, she won't hear the beeping. Prove someone can hear the beeping before bringing that up again.

Also if your argument is "she's smart she'll figure it out" ill assume she CANT figure out. Present a logically way for this to happen, or dont present it at all.

Dude that's your argument for why Natasha can figure it out. "She's a spy, she can figure out everything." Present a logical way for Natasha to somehow be smarter than Leon S Kennedy. They're both listed as Gifted under their intelligence.

Because when she was fighting Yelena, that was her SISTER and she wasn't out to win the fight, she wanted answers. Incaps exist.

Natasha aimed a gun at her sister and then proceeded to chokeslam her sister through a cabinet. Just because she didn't want to kill Yelena doesn't mean she didn't want to win the fight. Losing the fight means Yelena would at least knock her out or at most kill her, Natasha obviously didn't want that and there was only one way to prevent that: winning the fight or getting a tie like in the movie. If wanting answers stopped Natasha from being bloodlusted, then she could want answers from Ada and not try to kill her.

 

[Jibz]

Nobody would expect their enemy to scream their intel across an entire park, of course Natasha is gonna wanna get closer to Ada if she wants the intel, especially if the enemy put down their weapon.

They literally have guns pointed at eachother, and then Ada pretends to give up? Like Natasha has a gun towards her head my guy, she doesn't need to get any closer. And the intel wouldn't be screamed through a park.

Also Natasha's goal is to WIN, not get intel. If i haven't already stated this yet ill be stating it now, the notion that she'll be looking for intel is a baseless one. Ada is out to cause Natasha severe harm in her eyes per SBA, and so instead of looking for intel she'll be fighting. So drop this point.

Leon and Ada were only like 4-5 feet away from each other and I never said Natasha will be in Ada's face. When people are speaking at normal volumes, they don't need to get THAT close to hear each other, it doesn't make sense anyway since Natasha could find that risky because she could think Ada has a knife on her or something. I imagine Natasha would be close enough to actually hear what Ada could say at normal volume (and for the glasses to get her) but not close enough to risk Ada suddenly pulling something out of her pocket. So no, she won't hear the beeping. Prove someone can hear the beeping before bringing that up again.

Leon walked 4-5 steps across the room before the flashbomb, and then a couple more paces to the side and even then he heard the beeping right before the flashbang , and whilst you didnt present the notion they will be close to eachother, members of the opposition DID. So yea she would hear the beeping unless you and your supporters want to get your story straight.

Also after rewatching the scene it looks like Leon didn't pay attention because he was either shocked about Ada's appearance or wanted intel and thus didnt pay attention to the fact the glasses she was holding randomly dropped to the floor. If Ada does that to Black Widow, she'll know something is off instantly.

Dude that's your argument for why Natasha can figure it out. "She's a spy, she can figure out everything." Present a logical way for Natasha to somehow be smarter than Leon S Kennedy. They're both listed as Gifted under their intelligence.

Leon completely didn't clock the sunglasses due to his own shock at Ada's appearance and then his subsequent questions, so no i don't need to prove Natasha is smarter as she won't be under the same guidelines. The two scenario's aren't comparable. As for "she's a spy, she can figure everything out" this is a horrible mischaracterization of my stance that borders on fallacious. Natasha is a trained spy, with lots of knowledge and the scenario you posited would be unlikely to work DUE to her intelligence.

Natasha aimed a gun at her sister and then proceeded to chokeslam her sister through a cabinet. Just because she didn't want to kill Yelena doesn't mean she didn't want to win the fight.

This still doesn't negate the fact she wanted answers. And yeah she chokeslamed her sister through a cabinent. She also grabbed her and told her to stay down. Because shocker, she wanted answers from a conscious person. She literally called a truce half way into it when Yelena was choking and would have fallen unconcious before her, BECAUSE she didn't want to fight. Stop comparing these two situations because you can't.


And with the oppositions failure to provide any logical scenarios as to how the sunglasses will work in the many chances i've given them. Natasha wins.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

Bump

 

[Reploidnoridomix]

ada fra anyway,with her powerful glasses lol

 

[Jibz]

I still haven't been brought a way for the glasses to actually blind Natasha without having huge leaps in logic, but sure...

 

[Lacku]

I still haven't been brought a way for the glasses to actually blind Natasha without having huge leaps in logic, but sure...

I think the glasses are like a side thing that Ada has to help her win they aren't her only win con, she also has statistics application and healing with herbs which probably get her the win too

 

[Jibz]

I think the glasses are like a side thing that Ada has to help her win they aren't her only win con, she also has statistics application and healing with herbs which probably get her the win too

Afaik the amp boosts her total health and nothing more. As for healing with herbs, where does she keep it? Is it easily accessible in the middle of a fight? Furthermore, how long does the healing take to work, im presuming its rather quick due to game logic, right?

 

[Lacku]

Afaik the amp boosts her total health and nothing more. As for healing with herbs, where does she keep it? Is it easily accessible in the middle of a fight? Furthermore, how long does the healing take to work, im presuming its rather quick due to game logic, right?

Using game logic all of adas briefcase switching and herb intake is instantaneous, the win cons that bw has are her possible superior skill (I’m not certain how skilled ada is) and her widows bite. From my view ada just has more going for her

 

[Jibz]

Using game logic all of adas briefcase switching and herb intake is instantaneous

Can you even use game logic for that? And regardless speed is equalized so Natasha should be able to stop her from getting out a whole ass briefcase, opening it then getting two different herbs, combing them then eating them to gain unquantifiably more health then she had prior.

he win cons that bw has are her possible superior skill (I’m not certain how skilled ada is) and her widows bite. From my view ada just has more going for her

More as in sunglasses nobody has proven to be actually effective, and her having extra hp gained from a method that doesnt exactly seem viable compared to Black Widow's presumably superior skills, stun batons, smoke grenades, flash bombs and pepper spray. Yeah...

Also lets say the sunglasses work (Which they dont until yall can prove they can), the beeping gets visibly louder, what's stopping Black Widow thinking quick on her feet and throwing down a smoke bomb, or her own flash grenade or a myriad of other solutions rather than just get stunlocked out of shock (she has gifted intelligence).

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

What do you mean they don't work? Prove that BW resits being flash banged. Also Ada also has flashbangs, regular grenades and incendiary grenades of her own.

 

[Jibz]

What do you mean they don't work? Prove that BW resits being flash banged

By that i meant there hasn't been proof her method of using them would be effective. Poor wording on my part.

 

[DemonicDude]

Ada waifu FRA.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

Grace

 

[Jibz]

It seems i wasn't enough. Rip Natasha (ion think anyone's gunna bother with the discussion no more)