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Ace Attorney Revisions

Buttersamuri

Buttersamuri

13,314
628
I am here to defend None other than Phoenix Wright and bring a few things I say need to be revised

1. The Anime. Why is it not used? Looking to it, it doesn't offer any major contradictions to the OG Phoenix Wright story. It simply seems to retell some of the Ace Attorney story as an anime. Considering a Calc even used the numbers for it on one of Phoenixs calcs. I say it has to be used. Which it would give Phoenix Air manipulation, and room wide range with his hurricane finger pointing.

2. Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright, What makes this non canon. It doesn't contradict eithers time line. And is even on their wiki with their official games. Professor Layton has never had a concrete time in his timeline. Meaning that Phoenixs couldn't contradict it. The fact Laytons games seem old fashion can easily be explained with the sometimes over the top nature both games can have. (Like how Layton drinks the shit out of his tea and can be a bit over the top with stuff like stereotypes, and ace attorney is ace attorney. To those who have played the game, you know its wacky nature.) this would give a Room to building feat for Phoenix (we all know which feat it is) [[1]]

(which might not be inconsistent considering these next two things) One being scaling from the guards who could match laytons strength who has this feat of matching this guard who smashed the floor [[2]] 26:08 to 26:27,

And surviving explosions in his own games like this [[3]]

And there is also shaking the courthouse which is done by one of the knights whenever he slams his hand down with a strong swing (which is actually shakes the background) [[4]]

which before some argue its dramatic effect. The same isn't done for others lime this women. Adding in. the guard builds up to slam his fist down. helping imply more it shook the place. [[5]] which does make sense as she isn't as strong as the guards would be as she being an inquisitor. not a guard.

There as well is when phoenixs wrestles with a guard. and after being held down by two of them, he still escapes them.

and possible speed from that womens slam, where we see what see on her claw creating some sort of long after image. (I say possible. not 100 percent on that myself.)

3. It very well can possibly made consistent as well with this feat when this drone thing fires missiles which lights up the courthouse and everyone is unharmed. [[6]]

4. This is just a little bonus thing. In the Jap movie that was made. Miles dodges close range gun fire [[7]] which isn't inconsistent cause of the first almost minute of the film when Mayas mother does this [[8]]


5. Also. for anybody who cares too, and is good at calcing manga. Ace attorney has a manga. Which might hold a speed feat i found possibly decent withtin the spider manga.
 
1.-I think Anime Phoenix should have an anime key or another profile, he does have a couple of differences with game wright, for example, i do not think Anime Phoenix was ever electrocuted by Von Karma and he never gets the Magatama either. 2.-I think that, if it is accepted as Canon to the Ace Attorney universe, it should be used, even if it is a crossover of sorts, since Layton's mysterious cases never interfere with Wright's at all.

Now, the female prosecutor (forgot her name)'s claws leaving an after image is not an indication of speed, as far as i know, but it should be noted.


3.-That does seem a bit...comedic and over the top, but if those are legit missiles, and they did cause that light, i assume it should be calced as an actual feat of durability for Apollo.


4.-I agree with some movie Ace Attorney profiles, but i do doubt that Maya's mom is doding real bullets, since she is chanelling the memories of Edgey's dad, and i do not know if Phoenix scales to Edgeworth in this incarnation. 5- Oh, i have that Spider case manga, do you remember the part where the feat could be? Just to make it a lil bit faster.
 
1. Well yes. It does have some differences as most animes do to their original. But I think it should still be used regardless. It didn't hangs any major plot points or main story. Cases were the same, plot point was the same. The differences seem to minor to write off as a separate canon

2. Both of their canon wikis have the games down on their official game list. Which also supports this.

3. Yea. But Ace Attorney is always comedic and over the top. That's how almost every character is in some way. It isn't anything new or gaggish. And the missiles also note were shot directly at the witness. Appollo was likely in the blast zone since it lights up the courtroom. And also likely should scale to the feat as well to some degree at least.

4. Well. The gun still moved at bullet speed. We see the gun shot first before she moves her Chet and arms before the bullet gets to her and spins around her. Wether she was channeling or not. She still reacted and moved to its speed.

5. It was when they first saw the Spider guy in the forest place. He looks at them. Before suddenly rushing away. Which the amount of words that were said implies it was rather quick (nothing super impressive. But it could maybe add super human or sub sonic consistency)
 
1.-Oh no, i am saying it as a good thing, non-canon/separate canon profiles should be different enough to need a different profile, i think. So i do think Anime Phoenix is indeed quite different from his "canon" counterpart and deserves his own profile/key.

2.-Can a wiki be officially canon?

3.- I see, if it can be cuantified, i think it should be applied.

4.-I see, but, i still have my doubts, if she does indeed move at bullet speed, i think it should scale to Maya at least.

5.-Oh, i see. Worth checking out at least.
 
Also. About Phoenix scaling to this version of Miles. He probably does. In this movie, evidence is shown on 3D hologram boards which they can physically interact with. However, they often physically throw them at each other. Like Phoenix at one point flings it at Von Karma who reacts fast enough to stop it from passing him. So it wouldn't be unreal to say he would scale
 
I see, so Movie Phoenix could potentially dodge a bullet, which is great, but, i wonder if he could qualify for an additional key or profile, since i do not remember him having that many special abilities that his canon or anime form do not have.
 
1. Ahh. I'm still a bit iffy on it. Possibly instead having a Game Phoenix as one page. And then a Composite Phoenix since the rest of the canons like movie and anime do have some differences. And the movie one probably couldn't get its own wiki. It's nothing special aside from bullet dodging.

2. I mean. It's the Ace Attorney wiki. And Professor Layton wiki. It's their official wiki. Not a fan made one or anything. It's there to tell you the official Games for their series and about them.

3. Alrighty. I'll see if I can ask someone about calcing it

4. Well. Since it doesn't seem to be inconsistent since Miles has one feat as well bullet timing. I think it could be useable. Plus, I think it's fully able to be caled, we see the and the distance it makes, as well as how fast she moves. So it could be a feat labeled as "Possibly so and so"

5. Found the photos. I downloaded the manga on a site. This is how it looks

IMG 4204
IMG 4205
 
You know, a bit unrelated, i just find it absolutely interesting that, Ace Attorney is a bit cyclical.

Naruhodou (from The Grreat Ace Attorney) is a Japanese Lawyer that hangs out with the English detective Sherlock Holmes.

And Ryuichi (Phoenix Wright) is a Japanese lawyer that hanged out with the most competent English detective of his time, Professor Layton.
 
Sadly, i don't see any clear feats in that manga, but it is worth looking thru the other ones, manga phoenix might have some feats here and there.
 
You mean this and this? Neither are official/canon wikis.

We shouldn't allow crossovers unless there's explicit references to them in future Ace Attorney games. Which, to my knowledge, there isn't.
 
He has fair points about the Ace Attorney anime, I think that should be discussed more.

As for Edgeworth dodging a bullet, if the movie's anything like actual case 4, (spoilers), the guy who shot the gun missed on purpose to frame Edgeworth for murder.
 
1. No, that wasn't the wiki I was talking about. I was talking about the official wiki which has the game labeled on it. [[1]]

And what's the reason for not using the crossover? They offer no contridictions or plot holes to main canon. As well these "Special episodes" also show that they actually do meet up once again in a years passing.

And iirc, they have even used an ace attorney song before in one of their games in Professor Layton and the Diabolical Box.

2. It doesn't matter really if he intended to miss or not. Cause the video still shows him ducking from it. He still reacted to its bullet. And from the looks, he didn't make any aim to try and miss. He holds it up fires, then He ducks. (Regardless tho. I seriously doubt this would be added to his page. Since it's the live action. Just was a little feat I was bringing up in the movie cause seemed cool.)
 
That's Wikipedia, which also isn't official or WoG. Besides, it doesn't say that the crossover is canon there, it simply lists it as a game in the franchise.

The special episodes are explicitly non-canon, even if the crossover was canon, largely due to the sheer amount of fourth wall breaking.

The reason we're not using the crossover is that it's not mentioned at all throughout either series, to my knowledge. Diabolical Box didn't rip any songs from Ace Attorney, although if a soundtrack did sound familiar that's probably just a homage, as the Layton series takes inspiration from the Ace Attorney series (e.g. Layton's finger point).

2) He reacted to the sound of the gun being fired, it's not clear enough to tell if he ducked before the bullet passed him, which I'd doubt anyway. It does look cool though
 
1. Alright. But even not using special episodes. What exact reason is there for not using the Crossover other than the fact it's a crossover. It can fit in both their time lines without causing any issues to one or the other. And it isn't anything strange or contricdicting to their normal power or games. Doesn't seem fair to write it off as non canon without something to actually indicate it is.

2. But we see the gun fire first. Then him duck. Not just the sound of the gun. We see it fire. We may not see the bullet at any time. But, we clearly see the gun shot first. Much like Maya's mother feat where we see the gun shot before we see the girl react and move to it.
 
I haven't watched the movie since it came out, but I recall that it altered the plot in pretty dramatic ways, so I think it should be its own key or page.

Unless the anime changes the story in dramatic ways, I'm personally fine with using it. I've only seen the first few episodes, though.
 
The story is the same, but the feats/abilities are quite different. Though I wouldn't particularly mind merging the two
 
The movie itself altered it in some ways. Granted the main story line was the same. First the case for defending Larry (granted it started at the end so we don't see how the case was) Right after, Mia getting killed by and Maya getting blamed. Phoenix defending her and winning the case. Skipping Turnabout samurai however. (It seemed actually that one took place with Miles and someone else earlier in the movie. Which is a change) Then immediately heading into Miles case. So there was some change. Mostly the same thing with some changes here and there. (Like giant 3D hologram projectors) Wether or not it's used on the page is fine. I mostly brought it up because it was cool to me. And it gave some version of ace Attoerny a Super sonic feat (which if it isn't used for that page. Could always have its own separate page)

The anime was generally the same. But it gave Phoenix some more powers. Like fracking Air bending. And possibly more feats if looked into. (I know he once smashed into the ground causing two metal grates to break up and off. I'm not certain. But those types of grates are usually screwed or bolted into the ground. Which would offer more durability.) Plus his whole little disnigratint someones cane by pointing
 
For one, not sure about Anime Phoenix; is it an adaptation or part of the main game continuity. I haven't seen the Anime but seems interesting.

We're also tend to be pretty strict regarding crossovers. We need a very specific confirmation from both creators that it is canon; and or clear cut references in other games to indicate that the Professor Layton crossover is canon to either game.

The Movie is merely and adaptation, so that's not canon to the games. And if we were to make a movie version of Phoenix, it would require its own profile. That being said, dodging bullets might be aim dodging rather than actual bullet timing. Reacting to the man pulling the trigger isn't the same thing as moving out of the way of an already speeding bullet approaching you.

May come back for other details though.
 
If it's just Capcom confirming it's canon to Phoenix Wright but no confirmation about it being canon to Professor Layton, then it's a one-sided crossover where Phoenix may scale from feats shown in that specific game; though not directly from any Professor Layton characters. If Nintendo considers it canon to Professor Layton, then it would only apply to him and would simply not be canon to Ace Attorney.

If we have both creators confirming it to be canon, then perhaps it may be legit. But again, there needs to be direct confirmation from the creators.
 
2012 is just when the game was released, not when the game takes place. Not to mention; Phoenix Wright had only just became a lawyer in 2016, so that would be contradictory if 2012 was the actual story setting. Not having a specific in game year setting doesn't mean it doesn't have a canon. But either way, none of that is really specific enough to confirm it.
 
1. With the anime. A few here who have seen a bit haven't seen any big contradictions. It only offers new abilities. No knew real plot issues. As GyroNutz as well said. So it shouldn't have any issues with merging them.

2. To me. I still say it should be able to be used considering this has no major issues other than "it's a crossover." While I'm not sure if Phoenix has ever referenced it before. It still percently fits in their canons without any issues plot wise. The big problem on crossovers being canon is typically Plot holes. Or the companies saying it is non canon. (or just guest stars like tekken games). Which this again, offers none.

3. The movie feat. We see the gun. Play it frame by frame. It lites up and then darkens implying it shot the bullet. No bullet was animated cause of the way it was shot, but he didn't react to just its sound. Frame by frame shows the gun lite up from shootunt and fade, showing the bullet had left the barrel by then. Meaning he didn't react to the sound. He reacted after it had been shot. (And I hadn't really intended this to be apart of Phoenix's original page. Was just something I wanted to show and maybe get its own page. Or make a Composite Phoenix Wright page with it.

4. Back to that missile feat. I asked someone and they calced it. (Again. Wasn't my calc. Not taking credit) judging on the judges official height of 170 centimeters and got 9.85 megajoules or 9850000 joules. (Just barely under Small Building. Wall+ and possibly small building since everyone seemed rather ok after it) I'll leave the pics here on their measurements so if you want to take a look yourself. Here it is.

IMG 4431
IMG 4432
 
The big issue with crossovers is that the characters tend to be rescaled to fit with the scale of each other, even if it doesn't make any sense.
 
Actually. In this case. It just adds consistency. Layton would be in the general Wall-small building level. (Possible building feat I have seen. But I'm not entirely sure cause I never calced it) And this feat, plus Phoenix other many wall feats (and this one being dang near close to small building.) Plus the fact Phoenix building feat comes from a direct explosion feat he was in himself. He didn't get it from scaling. The only thing scaling does is make it more consistent in his power.
 
Even if Layton was wall level, he doesn't scale to any of the characters. Most you could say is that Wright > Luke, who has a wall level feat of his own
 
Yea. He did. He also fought one of the suits of armor, who even shattered the ground at one point. (Granted that ground was Glass. It was rather thicker Glass. And should still be decently impressive.
 
Looking at the page. I wrote down the issues typical crossovers can have. And wrote the reason it shouldn't cause an issue in this case.

"Canon" It fits perfectly in both timelines and causes 0 issues and plot holes in both games timeline. There isn't any real reason it couldn't be used. No issue there

"rescale the power levels other each other" Both are generally on the same level in their own verses. Phoenix having Wall-Small Building (including the missile feat) in his own games. Layton as well having Wall-Small building (and maybe a building feat. But again. Haven't calced it) The crossover gave Phoenix his own direct building feat. And Layton got what is likely was Wall to + directly as well. So scaling each other shouldn't be an issue as both are in the general same area. Both in and out of crossover. Phoenix doesn't just hit building in this game via Layton scaling. Gets it from a direct feat. As well. Scaling does work. The guards were able to hold Layton back physically. And Phoenix wrestled on of them, and even escaped them when they were having him held down. So no issue there

"The crossover should be reasonably extensive" It is. No issue there.

So I still stand by it should be used. And scaling should be used. That bomb feat directly makes Phoenix a lot stronger. And scaling to Layton makes his normal levels and possibly this feat way more consistent.
 
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