Accelerator Concept Manipulation and Magic Negation (Re)moval

[DontTalkDT]

This thread is about (re)moving two abilities from Accelerators page. This debate was already started in the discussion threads of the time, but I will reiterate everything.

First the concept manipulation. For that, we have to guess what it is even based on as the page gives no indication. According to the discussion thread it is this:

An explosive noise burst out.

But it was not the sound of the violent gale Accelerator had been trying to unleash.

This was less distinct.

It was an invisible power that covered every part of the world.

His vector control ability twisted it into a vortex that rushed toward Nephthys like a giant spear.

“Tch!!”

The brown goddess had preserved her beauty even as her torso was blown away, but she finally clicked her tongue and pushed Accelerator off of her. This slightly diverted the spear’s trajectory so it only sliced off a tuft of her long silver hair.

The idea here was that because it is some completly unknown kind of supernatural power its conceptual manipulation.... yeah I think it's clear that that is faulty.


The other part is Accelerators Magic Negation via the Clonoth. The problem here is the "via the clonoth" part. Accel has demonstrated no magic negation via the Clonoth at all. What he CAN do is to negate magic, like any other energy, via vector manipulation. However, he could already do that in his first key (though to a more limited extent due to the special laws of magic in To Aru). So this ability should be moved to the first key and be listed as (limited) power nullification via vector manipulation instead of via the clonoth.

 

[XDragnoir]

Can we add to his intelligence section that he has "understanding" of most types of magic present in Toaru?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Seems solid

 

[ZERO7772]

Seems fine

Btw, this is off-topic, but what is everyone stands on making a different key for Post-Clonoth Accel at this point? I mean when you have quotes like these: "

“You don’t understand magic and you don’t know the rules, so that Magic God could mock you and act all omniscient and omnipotent, but that ends now.”

“I will provide you with what you need to know by installing the knowledge of the entire tree of seventy-eight cards. It doesn’t matter if you are aware of it or not, master. Just control the vectors however feels right to you. All of ‘us’ will make sure it all works out!!”

Pre and post-head-shot Base Accel simply doesn't have these abilities and knowledge so simply throwing everything under Post-Head shot Accel key feels disingenuous and lazy. Also any Magic negating feats Accel shown from here on shouldn't back scale to him previous keys.

 

[Zensum]

#1 I agree. Concept Manipulation doesn't make much sense.
#2 I more or less agree, this one seems like a wording issue. It is power nullification via vector manipulation, but the knowledge installed/outsourced from Clonoth increases the variety/type of powers he can manipulate. So it does make sense to add a mention of Clonoth in his Post-Headshot key.

 

[ZERO7772]

I mean if you must, it's negating Magic via "knowledge" from Clonoth ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[LazyHunter]

I agree with both points, manipulating a type of invisible power/energy that exist everywhere is not a feat for conceptual manipulation; and as mentioned Clonoth didn't give Accelerator a new ability to negate magic, it was just a boost to his understanding of the mechanics of magic which results in improving the effects of his vector manipulation on magic attacks.

 

[XDragnoir]

I agree with the Post-Clonoth key, btw, we could also probably remove the winged keys and add them as powers for the post-headshot key, but this can wait for the backscaling revision, i think the OP is 100% accurate.

 

[ZERO7772]

I agree with the Post-Clonoth key, btw, we could also probably remove the winged keys and add them as powers for the post-headshot key, but this can wait for the backscaling revision, i think the OP is 100% accurate.

Angelic mods doesn't work under the same key as base, there is just so much difference.

 

[Antvasima]

This seems fine to me as well.

 

[XDragnoir]

Angelic mods doesn't work under the same key as base, there is just so much difference.

There isn't much really, just remote vector control and stats amp, Rensa for example has the wings in the same key.

 

[ZERO7772]

Rensa's profile is a mess.

Accel with wings gain Remote Vector Control, Regen negation, remove the time limit, Also superhuman strength and dura even without his vector Shield "up to 6-A with White Wings when he's base is just human level"
This is without bringing the Clonoth memes he has with Play Wings.

 

[XDragnoir]

Actually, they don't remove the time limit, none of them, current Accel has regen null in base, he also has RVC to some extent in base, so if we don't create a 'post clonoth" key, we could remove the BW and WW keys, that is what i meant before, since their only change is Dura and AP (the AP amp isn't even big) amp.

 

[Aminadab_Brulle]

His base was trading punches with 9-C Amata Kihara just fine before plot armor wings kicked in.

 

[XDragnoir]

His base was trading punches with 9-C Amata Kihara just fine before plot armor wings kicked in.

Yeah, but we weren't talking about that.

 

[Aminadab_Brulle]

I was reffering specifically to this part:

Rensa's profile is a mess.

Accel with wings gain Remote Vector Control, Regen negation, remove the time limit, Also superhuman strength and dura even without his vector Shield "up to 6-A with White Wings when he's base is just human level"
This is without bringing the Clonoth memes he has with Play Wings.

Since this is a profile revision thread.

 

[DontTalkDT]

The original proposal seems accepted, so I will apply it.

 

[Scrlk666777]

Kind of getting used to this new fourm so missed this thread until just now and it looks like it's already been accepted. I pretty much agree as well.

@XDragnoir
Why would the BW and WW keys be removed if we don't have a clonoth key? I do think the discussion of the winged keys should probably be brought up but then we likely have a few profiles that need fixing or at least looking at as well. Someone mentioned Rensa's.

 

[XDragnoir]

Well, i don't think we have any set rules about what should or shouldn't be it's own key, both in Toaru and vsbw as a whole, but i would say the same logic we used for Touma (before he had so many different powers inside him) and IT should be applied to the wings:

Not something he starts with in battles, but something that can appear in the middle of it, or the OP can say he starts in it

The same can be said to Aleister's second key, and arguably to his third key as well, and many others outside of Toaru.

 

[Scrlk666777]

If I'm being honest I do have some issues with Accelerator's winged keys. On one hand I can understand why they are done in seperate keys since winged modes are much more powerful than base (although that might not be the right terms since all are now 5-B, likely higher except PW.) and it would be hard to do a match up that can change power levels during the match. Also the wings technically might not be more powerful than base as in raw power but more powerful as in can do more broken stuff.

On the other hand the wings are something that Accelerator always has access to. It's not like another form or he needs some type of equipment to use it. It's based on either his own choice or the situation he's in.

I would also argue that perhaps the clonoth should get it's own key but I can understand if no one wants that since at the moment we know nothing of the clonoth really only very little.

 

[XDragnoir]

and it would be hard to do a match up that can change power levels during the match.

We have a rule that says anything that changes a character tier can be restricted, so it wouldn't really change anything, at most it would add "wings restricted" to some battles with Accel.

 

[Scrlk666777]

We already have wings restricted for battles though. That's what the keys are for really

 

[AKM sama]

The original proposal seems accepted, so I will apply it.

Since the changes have been applied, I think this thread can be closed? Don't know why it is still open.

 

[XDragnoir]

We already have wings restricted for battles though. That's what the keys are for really

That wasn't my point, tho, so... whatever?

Also, yeah, you can close this, AKM.