Abstract Existence Type 1 Clarifications (Subjected to become Staff Discussion)

[Ss3micah]

In Short Summary,
The reason for this CTR is because I have seen many debates where it has been argued what Fundamental Abstract Hax is necessary to affect Abstract Beings and which can specifically harm certain Abstractions. So I'm making this CTR for clarification on the different kinds of Abstract Entities and what Abstract Hax can or cannot affect them. NPI that can affect Abstract beings and/or Feats are a given. but outside of that what are the default methods that one can use to harm abstract beings even without feats.

Spoiler: Thought Abstractions

1. Thought/Idea Abstractions

Spoiler: Thought Abstractions

Such as The God Hand from Berserk

What does it take to affect Abstractions of Thoughts by default? (Multiple Answers can be selected)
1. Mind/Thought related Hax
2. Conceptual Hax
3. Information Hax
4. Plot Hax
5. Other Options

Spoiler: Reality Abstractions

2. Reality Abstractions

Spoiler: Reality Abstractions

Such as Eternity from Marvel Comics

What does it take to affect Abstractions of Reality by default? (Multiple Answers can be selected)
1. Space-Time and/or Reality Manipulation Hax
2. Conceptual Hax
3. Information Hax
4. Plot Hax
5. Other Options

Spoiler: Conceptual Abstractions

3. Conceptual Abstractions

Spoiler: Conceptual Abstractions

Such as Ultimate Madoka from Puella Magi

What does it take to affect Abstractions of Concepts by default? (Multiple Answers can be selected)
1. Conceptual Hax
2. Information Hax
3. Plot Hax
4. Other Options

Spoiler: Information Abstractions

4. Information Abstractions

Spoiler: Information Abstractions

Such as the Words of the World from Tensei Shitara Slime

What does it take to affect Abstractions of Information by default? (Multiple Answers can be selected)
1. Conceptual Hax
2. Information Hax
3. Plot Hax
4. Other Options

Spoiler: Narrative Abstractions

5. Narrative Abstractions

Spoiler: Narrative Abstractions

Such as Shallow Vernal from I Was Caught up in a Hero Summoning

What does it take to affect Abstractions of Narrative by default? (Multiple Answers can be selected)
1. Conceptual Hax
2. Information Hax
3. Plot Hax
4. Other Options

Spoiler: Abstractions that uses Physical Forms/Bodies

6. Abstractions of ANY KIND that utilizes Physical Forms/Bodies

Spoiler: Abstractions that uses Physical Forms/Bodies

Such as Death in Family Guy

What does it take to affect Abstractions of any kind that uses Physical Forms/Bodies by default? (Multiple Answers can be selected)
1. Any kind of Hax they don't resist
2. Fundamental Aspect Hax (Concept, Information and Plot)
3. Only Fundamental Hax that matches their Abstraction
4. Other Options

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Eternity is a Conceptual Abstractions tho

 

[Ss3micah]

Eternity is a Conceptual Abstractions tho

I know lol
But he's also a Reality Abstraction so I just used him as an example in that sense specifically

 

[NHTkenshin2]

Eternity is a Conceptual Abstractions tho

He is kinda all of these combined, even a narrative abstraction. Not that it matters

 

[Ss3micah]

He is kinda all of these combined, even a narrative abstraction. Not that it matters

Lolol
Yes it does not matter.
I simply used him for Reality Abstraction because he's a prime example that fits the bill

 

[Ss3micah]

Bump

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Well yes, although the conceptual entity depends on which concept it embodies, since type 3 and 2 (up to a certain point) simply only have to destroy its object

 

[Ss3micah]

Well yes, although the conceptual entity depends on which concept it embodies, since type 3 and 2 (up to a certain point) simply only have to destroy its object

And what about the Other Abstractions?
Like the Narrative and Information Abstractions?
Would Conceptual Manipulation be capable of affecting them or not?
Or would you specifically need Plot and Information Manipulation respectively to counter them?

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

I'll assuming will, emotion, dream, etc abstractions are all getting lumped in with thought abstractions?

Also seeing abstractions using physical bodies/forms reminds me of AE type 3 before it got nuked and parts of it got reincorporated into type 2.

 

[Ss3micah]

I'll assuming will, emotion, dream, etc abstractions are all getting lumped in with thought abstractions?

Yeah

Also seeing abstractions using physical bodies/forms reminds me of AE type 3 before it got nuked and parts of it got reincorporated into type 2.

LOLOL
But yeah I have noticed a lot of characters have AE1 and still use physically present forms/bodies to interact with or affect stuff in the world

So I wanted it to be clarified what can affect them as well

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Yeah

Tbf we do separate mind and emphatic manipulation into two separate P&A plus fiction often treats the mind and "heart" as two separate aspects of a living being (alongside the body, soul, name, etc), I can see an argument that emotion abstractions are distinct enough to be separated from thought abstractions based on this but I don't mind either way, just giving my two cents.

Also it should go without saying but having NPI feats should only be used as a specific interaction feat (e.g; interaction with an information abstraction doesn't mean you can also interact with conceptual abstractions nor gain any form of information manipulation without further context).

 

[Ss3micah]

Tbf we do separate mind and emphatic manipulation into two separate P&A plus fiction often treats the mind and "heart" as two separate aspects of a living being (alongside the body, soul, name, etc), I can see an argument that emotion abstractions are distinct enough to be separated from thought abstractions based on this but I don't mind either way, just giving my two cents.

Also it should go without saying but having NPI feats should only be used as a specific interaction feat (e.g; interaction with an information abstraction doesn't mean you can also interact with conceptual abstractions nor gain any form of information manipulation without further context).

Yeah
Good point
And understand the NPI feats part because with NPI feats everything becomes easier

This evaluation here for is for cases without feats
Like would a character with Concept Type 1 by default be capable of affecting a Conceptual Abstraction?

And if the answer to that is yes, that you can affect an abstract without feats of interaction only the necessary power needed then it should be made clear what powers can affect certain abstractions by default

 

[Sniper670]

How about a non defined abstraction?

Essentially, they abstracts in a sense they exist as no form, but they're neither of the things you mentioned, not mind, neither are they concepts, nor information nor plot, nor nonexistent.

They do not have form yet they "exist" somehow.

 

[Lukewoesal007]

How about a non defined abstraction?

Essentially, they abstracts in a sense they exist as no form, but they're neither of the things you mentioned, not mind, neither are they concepts, nor information nor plot, nor nonexistent.

They do not have form yet they "exist" somehow.

You're just describing Nonexistent Physiology. If such beings are also "not nonexistent", one could argue layered NEP.