About Time Travel in VS threads

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I'll just make this quick.

If we're pitting people, from 2 entirely different ficitons, against each other, and one is able to use time travel, how exactly would they know about what period in time the opponent is apart of to kill them? And im not talking about instances where the time traveler is omniscient, nigh-omniscient, can see past events, knows the opponent personally, or has prior knowledge. I mean the average time traveler who wouldn't have any of the specified.

For example, take Celebi and pit him against someone. Now if it was Moltres for instance, Celebi would easily be able to know and go to where Moltres is in the past and kill it because its from the same verse that Celebi constantly time travels through.

Now, we get someone outside pokemon, like Ichigo, and pit him against Celebi. Celebi isn't from bleach. He has no knowledge about the bleachverse or its events, Ichigo is just a totally random stranger who comes from nowhere just to fight and kill Celebi. How would Celebi know the right place in the past, if even fighting in the Bleachverse, to go to and time-kill Ichigo as a boy?

This of course doesn't apply to all time-travelers, but just the ones who don't have ridiculous levels of knowledge or prep to be aware of such information before a fight.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Go far back.

Far back enough where just moving a pebble effects all of life.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

But...thats the problem im having with this.

First off, the fight would have to take place in the opponents own verse for that to even be possible.

Second, going far back wouldnt be an issue, but specifically where would since the user cant just magically know that information.

Third, even if they did, they would have to know where the past version of the opponent lives, who they are, etc. And they wouldnt since the opponent is completely random.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Million years man would easilymitigate that man.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Simple answer is that by default the time traveler doesn't know where their opponent (or its parent) are in the past.

The time traveler has time to search, though. (detective work makes it possible) Or, in case of the more violent high tiered character we have, the character could just randomly blow up cities until the opponent dies.


When it comes to verses I would say that for the purpose of the battle their earth is assumed to be the same and the other places related to earth as they are related in their fictions.

 

[Golden_Void]

Go back in time and bring out the yellow pages and/or Google

Pretty much what DT said

 

[PaChi2]

Time travel and destroy the target's home planet/universe.

There you have it.

 

[Golden_Void]

Then you come back to a void 0.0

 

[PaChi2]

Then you come back to a void 0.0

Voids are okay unless you are a saiyan ovo

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

I had a problem with this.

Not all characters can just nuke everything in order to kill their opponents in the past, and even less will in-character. There is also some characters who were never really vulnerable enough to be killed easily in the first place. Or some that weren't born on Earth at all.

It's even worse for characters who never used time travel to try and paradox someone mid-fight and that we assume will, for some reasons.

 

[TurboTriangle601]

I'd say the closest thing to a solution would be kinda like this. Obviously this only applies to some circumstances.

Let's say Bob is a time traveler and he's fighting George, someone from a different verse. Bob asks how old George is and George says he's 26. Then Bob travels 25 years to the past.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

And what if you arent able to nuke anything significant? For all we know it can even be 9-A people trying to time kill their opponent and wouldnt be able to nuke stuff to kill them for lacking AP.

Not to mention you need to find the right time period to kill them, where they lack defenses for stuff you have in that place in time.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

They do the common sense thing and just use google.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Which, depending on the scenerio, can take even years to acomplish when trying to find a random stranger.

Making it in the end pointless to use.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

In all seriousness I've had an issue with this in the past.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Btw just a heads up, this is definitely case by case basis as some time travelers can do this in a snap.

Just not all of them.

 

[DontTalkDT]

If a character can not nuke stuff it can still randomly kill strangers. And age is approximately guessable.

But yeah aside from that, if there is no plausible way to find the opponent or to kill it at random they just can not pull off this kind of technique.

Similarly if they life/were born in a place unreachable for the opponent.


And as Saikou mentioned we can basically not even assume characters doing any of this in character if they don't do it canonly. (Whether it is the nuking cities part or the entire using timetravel as weapon part)

Sadly in most fights the debaters don't consider on how a character canonly fights and instead just go with what the character could do instead of what they would do. Pretty much the reason why I wish there would be an obligatory "fighting style" section on the standard format.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

This does also cause problems when one verse has an innate protection from this kind of thing. Like Trunks going back in time and killing Cell doesn't stop Future Cell from existing. So how does this apply in matches where a character has a built in immunity to this kind of thing but not cuz of their own powers

 

[DontTalkDT]

@lapitus: How the timetravel affects the future depends on the mechanism of the timetravel.

That means if a character can use killing someone in the past to an advantage in their own work, then he can do so in a vs matchup. Likewise if he can't do so in their own work, then they also can't in a vs match.


In general verse equalization makes it so that techniques work for characters the way they work in their own verse, even if the same techniques work different in another fiction.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

But then you get stuff like conflicting multiverse theoriese in the BB vs Heaven DIO match. The 2 systems cannot coexist and ends up giving DIO a massive advantage since it removed a limit the nature of his verse gave him. What in that senerio

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Let's leave verse equalization out of this please, at least the way your arguing it anyways.

The point of this post is to address the use of time travel in vs matches, where for some, it brings many issues.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Bumping

Should this be highlighted? Its not the most important but it should get more attention given a lot of characters have time travel.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I'll bump this.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Ohhh yeah I remember this now lol.

I think this should be highlighted still though.

 

[LordGinSama]

Actually I wanted to bring this up so I'll give you props for doing this before me. But yeah I agree with the OP.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

So, what about someone who was in a protected state. Say, someone goes back to kill harry potter, but dumbledore would notice and attack.

Or the character in the past was in a protected space where there are gueards, do they just get ignored?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

So, what about someone who was in a protected state. Say, someone goes back to kill harry potter, but dumbledore would notice and attack.
Or the character in the past was in a protected space where there are gueards, do they just get ignored?

Assuming they get to this point, this is a good question.

 

[Derpyrebound]

I agree with the point about having no knowledge as to where the opponent is in the past. I would also like to add these tidbits:

1) No preventing a character's birth by making his/her parents never meet or kill them prior to the opponent's birth.

2) Can only time travel to points in time that are during the battle (say to retrieve somethign that was destroyed in a blast two seconds ago or something like that)

 

[Andytrenom]

This thread is a highlighted CRT, so I assume that some major changes are expected to be implemented through this.

If I am right, what changes are being proposed exactly?

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

This makes a lot of sense.

Also, what about if the character has a secret identity? If another character goes back in time to kill Batman when's he's a kid or baby...well, that doesn't mean much. They don't know what he looks like under that cowl. They don't know his name. They don't know where he was born. What if if they don't guess his age correctly, they'd go to a time where Batman is going around the world training.

Honestly, the time travel argument has a lot of holes in it and a lot us are just making assumptions that the time traveler can fill in the blanks.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Time Travel would become quiet harder to use properly in fights because either the traveler not even traveling to the verse of the enemy, not knowing where to travel and possibly traveling somwhen where there are protectors for the characters

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

Do we assume that both fighters are from the same universe?

 

[Newendigo]

SBA stablishes that the fight take place in Central Park, NY in a neutral universe, unless the OP specifically states another place.

 

[Antvasima]

I am uncertain if this is important enough to be highlighted.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

This thread is a highlighted CRT, so I assume that some major changes are expected to be implemented through this.
If I am right, what changes are being proposed exactly?

Im not exactly sure, but I would assume that if we change our standards on time travel, we would remove it's use in Vs Debates for anyone who isn't one or more of the following:

-Omniscient

-Nigh Omniscient

-Omnipresent via time (like Dialga or Solaris)

-Prepared via prep

-Equipped with a kind of Memory Reading hax

Basically, any character that has this wouldnt be effected. But for anyone who's just a normal average time traveler would get affected by this.

 

[Antvasima]

Versus threads were never intended to be anywhere near our main purpose, just a manner for our members to have some fun. Yet we seem to focus quite a lot on them during policy revisions.

 

[Wokistan]

Well, no. You can estimate how old someone is, precog exists, time travelers have a lot of time to do this if their opponent has no answer, and some characters are that determined.

 

[DontTalkDT]

So, what about someone who was in a protected state. Say, someone goes back to kill harry potter, but dumbledore would notice and attack.
Or the character in the past was in a protected space where there are gueards, do they just get ignored?

IMO the "no outside interference" rule, that is usually assumed, only applies during the battle, meaning if you want to abuse timetravel you will possibly have to deal with other people.

 

[Andytrenom]

Things like time travelers not necessarily knowing where to time travel, younger versions of characters still having protection etc. are just logical observations you can bring up in a debate involving a time traveling character.

I don't see why you are bringing all this stuff up in a CRT when from what I can tell, this isn't even a problem about the standards of the wiki, and moreso a problem about people using lazy arguments in debates

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

>Precog

Future based, doesnt tell you the age of a random opponent and not all time travelers have it.

>Estimate

Which would take too long and is nowhere near enough of a factor.

>Lot of time

Problem is, finding an opponent in the past can take even years of searching through time for average time travelers and going to the past to avoid fighting the opponents current counterparts to time kill them is practically running away from a fight.