About Time Travel in VS threads

[DMB_1]

Don't forget to add Retrocog to the list which allows the user to see someone's past & their past events that occurred before.

You mean Clairvoyance?

 

[Nico-v11]

Time travel shouldn't be allowed in vs battles cause it's retarted.Is this battle or time travel contest?!

Time Travel has been used as an attack before so it should still completely be allowed. We just have to evaluate it that's all.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Dont get me wrong. Im not trying to ban time travel in all matches at all. There are still characters who can pull it off easily.

This only applies to average level time travelers who cant do it easily.

 

[Andytrenom]

Dont get me wrong. Im not trying to ban time travel in all matches at all. There are still characters who can pull it off easily.

This only applies to average level time travelers who cant do it easily.

Why do you want it banned? sorry, I really can't understand the logic here.

 

[Wokistan]

This still ignores all the other applications of time travel, like using it to dodge, using it to heal, using it as a sort of pseudo resurrection, etc.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Time travel shouldn't be allowed in vs battles cause it's retarted.Is this battle or time travel contest?!

@Andy

See this comment.

 

[Wokistan]

That's not an argument. Don't like time travelers in fights? Don't use them. Should we just restrict any sort of instant kill abilities just because "oh muh its not a real fight"?

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

@Woki

I agree.

 

[Andytrenom]

I think we should just mention the limitations of time travel discussed here on its own page, so that people stop making the same half assed arguments in versus threads about how any random time traveling character can just paradox their opponent.

Also, if anyone here wants time travel to be banned, sorry but that most definitely is not going to happen.

 

[EcchiOtakuTM]

Time travel is self-bfr as far as im concerned. Without something tethering you to that exact point in time and acausality, time traveling removes yourself from that fight possibility.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Why do you want it banned? sorry, I really can't understand the logic here.

Im only pushing to get it restricted for average time travelers because there is literally no logical way for them to pull it off as opposed to magically doing it like they have up until now. This and other reasons listed in this thread.

Perhaps banned was the wrong word but still my argument stands.

 

[Myriadofmemes]

@ecch Pretty shallow observation when it comes to both time traveling and the SBA rules. After all, how can you remove yourself from a fight that ended years before it started when the time traveler killed their enemy as a toddler in their past. Also a week needs to pass for a BFR victory to be declared so that's that...

 

[Huesito88]

I can't believe they changed it from 2 days to 1 week :/

 

[Andytrenom]

Im only pushing to get it restricted for average time travelers because there is literally no logical way for them to pull it off as opposed to magically doing it like they have up until now. This and other reasons listed in this thread.

Perhaps banned was the wrong word but still my argument stands.

If there's no way for them to pull it off, then arguments saying they can pull it off would not be counted in vs thread. As simple as that

There's no reason to restrict the ability itself.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Because time traveling into the past in vs matches can literally takes years and years and years? For reasons i've, Antonio, and others listed, thats definitely fleeing from a battle.

 

[DMB_1]

... Can't the Time Traveler travel in the Future where his opponent has already died of old age?

 

[Wokistan]

SOme people, like Doctor Doom, are that patient Kukui. Also time travel can let you do other things, and you seem to not want to address that.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

[/I]

There's no reason to restrict the ability itself.

No one is trying to restrict the ability, but rather, prevent average level time travelers with no possible way of knowing about their foe's in-depth info from using it in vs matches. Obviously not every time traveler should be restricted from using it since some can do it very easily.

That said, a rule for this argument not counting for normal time travelers should still be added.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

SOme people, like Doctor Doom, are that patient Kukui. Also time travel can let you do other things, and you seem to not want to address that.

Since when does average time travel allow for other things besides, well, time travel?

 

[Andytrenom]

There's no need for a rule, why it should not be counted is a matter of common sense.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I think people are using the most extreme cases here. I believe Kukui is simply talking about you average Time Traveller.

 

[Wokistan]

Read what examples I gave above. Healing, dodging, giving them artificial prep, pseudo res, its more than just an instakill ability.

 

[Myriadofmemes]

I agree with Woki. In such cases the ends justify the means. Even if the it takes a time travelers decades of searching to accomplish his goal it still ends up being no time at all as the opponent is killed in the past and never actually ends up participating.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

What I wish to know is how do we deal with:

-characters that were in a protected state in the past (say harry potter having wards and a wizard protecting him as a kid)

-if the character leaves the battlefield for long enoug to count as self-BFR, but as its in the past if it counts or not.

-If the character tries to go back and kill the parents, but the parents are some OP dudes and kill the traveler, than is it even a btalle, as the traveler was killed by someone else?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

... Can't the Time Traveler travel in the Future where his opponent has already died of old age?

That would definitely be fleeing a battle though, simply waiting for them to die on their own is not the same as actually eliminating the foe themselves like in an actual battle.

Besides, from an overall perspective, what if the foe is along the lines of living eternally? Or has a life span that far surpasses average earthly ones? Not the mention the user of time travel has absolutely no idea how old their foes are. They are complete strangers. Trying to guess an age to travel into the future would be almost beyond pointless to do in a battle without more info.

 

[Wokistan]

Its in character for some people. If it doesn't work, argue that in the thread. Probably does count as a self BFR though, moreso than time travel the other direction does.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I think people are using the most extreme cases here. I believe Kukui is simply talking about you average Time Traveller.

This. Literally no more than this and ive said this like 5 times.

If you can do other things with time travel, then your not average.

 

[Wokistan]

PRoblem is, most people who use time travel in combat are not "average" time travelers. Your proposed rule would be superfluous. Any specific examples of characters that have time travel argued as a reason when they shouldn't, besides Ferb? Your failure to present any such examples upon prior request is pretty telling.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

PRoblem is, most people who use time travel in combat are not "average" time travelers. Your proposed rule would be superfluous. Any specific examples of characters that have time travel argued as a reason when they shouldn't, besides Ferb? Your failure to present any such examples upon prior request is pretty telling.

And? The fact that there are exeptions to the rule is what matters,

Its like saying that we can't make a specification for Incapacitation/BFR/Bloodlust/etc because many can bypass that weakness through several means

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

>Provide examples

Im pretty sure most time travelers here in fiction aren't pulling a Dialga or Solaris. Or being omni/nigh-omniscient. Or getting in-depth prep on their foes before a battle to succesfully do time traveling. I shouldnt have to provide examples of who's average and whos not (IIRC, I even put a scenerio with using Celebi in my OP and Celebi isn't anything special when it comes to time traveling.)

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Lets say back to the future and they have the car as an exemple.

 

[Wokistan]

Except you do, because most time travelers in fiction don't use it for combat and as such don't have it argued for them or don't have profiles. Seems like you're trying to avoid the issue because you're aware that the amount of characters this would actually affect is outweighed by the amount it doesn't, and as such its something you can easily solve by just debating in a debate thread.

 

[Wokistan]

incap, bloodlust, and BFR have nothing to do with this though...

 

[Andytrenom]

"X wins by traveling to the past and paradoxing Y"

"X can't do that since he doesn't know where he has to travel in time to kill Y/Y can still avoid being killed as an infant etc. so your vote is invalid"

Literally all you have to do, just debate the guy making a flawed argument. I suggested adding the limitations discussed here to the the Time travel page. That should be enough to dissuade people from using this argument.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Literally all you have to do, just debate the guy making a flawed argument. I suggested adding the limitations discussed here to the the Time travel page. That should be enough to dissuade people from using this argument.

Arguing with people at times won't suddenly cease a discussion since some refuse to learn otherwise. However, I agree with adding the limitations to the Time Travel Page and it being enough to stop people from automatically using this argument for normal time travelers.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I have to agree.


Seriously tough, could anybody tell me what we do in the cases I said above?

 

[Wokistan]

@Ricsi

1: Depends if the character can overcome the protection or not, as I'm fairly sure that the no outside interference thing doesn't extend to time travel.

2: No, as they don't just get deleted from the present as they change the past.

3: Yeah, I guess. People screwing themselves over with their own ability counts with other ones, I don't see why it shouldn't with time travel.

At least that's how I see it.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I disagree with the outside help rule being extended. Obviously the current present version of a combatant can't have protection because its outside help for the battle they are in. However, the past version of said combatant is a different story. They aren't the ones battling, their future versions are. To them, getting suddenly attacked is a surprise as they are living out their normal lives at that point in time. Like if you tried attacking a past version of a king/queen, of course they'll be protected because of them living royal lives. We shouldnt suddenly extend the outside help rule to all versions of a character when it's only their current counterparts specifically that are doing the battling.

The rest I don't know really.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

bump

 

[Andytrenom]

Here's my suggestion, The limitations section on Time Travel's page should be separated by a sub heading called "In context of Versus matchups" (or something else in case that name isn't suitable enough) so that it is more obvious that you are supposed to keep these limitations in mind when debating in a Versus thread.

This is basically what it will look like if the idea gets accepted. Do tell if my idea is thrash or not...