About the move Trick Room. Possibly Reality Warping Hax?

[FictionalBlade101]

Usually, as we are all aware of, pokemon moves and attacks such as Trick Room usually have been classified as pure gameplay and nothing more, unless they have shown something in either the anime or manga of course. But after rethinking something from the anime, I think you guys could have a change of heart.

Based on the very defintion of the move, wouldnt Trick Room technically count as reality warping, low even? Since its changing the laws of the space it's enclosed the beings in to make the user faster while the opponent slower? Incase you want an explantion on how this would even be a possiblity, a really good example of laws changing when Trick Room is activated is when, in the XY anime, Ash used his Talonflame against the fairy type gym leader. One of her pokemon used trick room and obviously the move does it's job as described. Ash tries to counter it's effects by having Talonflame use Flame Charge over and over to try and make talonflames speed increase so it could outspeed the move's user. But according to Clement, because of Trick Room's effects, Talonflame was actually getting slower, not faster. It was a prime example of how the more speed is put in, the slower you get. And because of this, i was wondering if Trick Room would actually now count for something, other than just being simple game mechanics.

Anyone see issues with this?

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Seems fine.

 

[FictionalBlade101]

Seems fine.

Should we get other ppl to come here?

 

[Angry_Dummy]

Huh, neat.

I like it!

 

[FictionalBlade101]

So if Trick Room is considered this from this point on, how much of a game changer will it be then?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

This should be put under Hoopa's profile, as he's the only one we have on here that can learn it through level-up.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

So wait.... so if Ash's Talonflame had a move that would slow it down, in here it'll become faster? Under the effects of Trick Room? Would choosing to slow down and not move as much reverse the effect of that? And I'm guessing other low level reality warping could basically reverse that ability then?

 

[FictionalBlade101]

This should be put under Hoopa's profile, as he's the only one we have on here that can learn it through level-up.

Good point. So would this give an upgrade to Hoopa in speed maybe because of the moves effect?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

So wait.... so if Ash's Talonflame had a move that would slow it down, in here it'll become faster? Under the effects of Trick Room? Would choosing to slow down and not move as much reverse the effect of that? And I'm guessing other low level reality warping could basically reverse that ability then?

To your first point, yes something like Ultra Super Saiyan or the move Curse would acually get faster. I'm not sure about point #2 though.

 

[FictionalBlade101]

I think you guys are getting confused on something

Outside trick room, Flame Charge has its usual effect, making a pokemon faster everytime u use it

INSIDE trick room, its in reverse. Using it makes u slower, like it did to Talonflame

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Yeah but what if you selectively slow yourself down? As in move slow? Is your speed slower? Or would you technically be moving faster because you're slowing down?

To your first point, yes something like Ultra Super Saiyan or the move Curse would acually get faster. I'm not sure about point #2 though.

I'm leaning on yes tbh since it's minor reality warping. Or a tie perhaps?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

If you're purposefully moving slow, that doesn't translate. It should just make you move even slower. However, if a technique or a form made you slower, then it gets faster.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Gotcha that makes much more sense. But to what extent? What if the person is moving at let's say FTL speed or infinite speed? Or does it scale to how much power and effort the user can muster?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Reality warping is a tier-ignoring move. If they can get it off, the speed effectively switches. However, infinite and immesurable (and obviously irrelevant) should be immune, as they are above speed.

 

[FictionalBlade101]

This^

Wait if someone uses Infinite Speed inside Trick Room wouldnt its effects just make that person non movable? Like a statue, completely standing still? Im pretty sure 0 speed or movement is the total opposite of someone having infinite speed


Immeasurable i get tho

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Got it. And it's strictly related to the user's speed on how much their speed changes? If that's the case then if the enemy caught in Trick Room is slower and had this used on them, they'll be faster than the user instead?

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

This^
Wait if someone uses Infinite Speed inside Trick Room wouldnt its effects just make that person non movable? Like a statue, completely standing still? Im pretty sure 0 speed or movement is the total opposite of someone having infinite speed


Immeasurable i get tho

Would that mean anyone that can't move can move at infinite speed then?

 

[FictionalBlade101]

Im not sure

The official description of Trick Room is "The user makes a bizzare area in which slower pokemon get to move first for five turns"

In simpler terms, it means making a "room" or weird space that makes slower beings move faster then the originally faster beings. Trick Room even makes the faster opposing pokemon move AFTER the slow pokemon that got a speed boost from the Trick Rooms effect. Im guessing this can apply to any slow being, NOT JUST the user, unless its a single 1 on 1 fight.

To answer your question, i believe so. The description doesnt specifically say only the user it means slower pokemon in general (unless its a one on one fight). So if a slow pokemon gets caught in Trick Room and that pokemon is slower than the one who used the move to begin with, then yes they will be faster then the other pokemon.

The same thing counts for the user too, if the user of Trick Room is slower then the enemy pokemon.

Going by this, ANY pokemon caught in trick room that becomes slower will have all of its speed moves slower as well. Ash's Talonflames Flame Charge is a perfect example. Before Trick Room was done, Talonflame>>>>>>.the gym leaders pokemon in speed. But once Trick Room was made, The gym leaders pokemon>>>>>>>>>>Talonflame in speed. Ash tried to counter this with flame charges speed increase effect but Trick Rooms effect reversed it and made Talonflame slower every time it used Flame Charge. Hinting that speed increasing tactics wont work in Trick Room

 

[FictionalBlade101]

Would that mean anyone that can't move can move at infinite speed then?
I dont think so. Just because one gets a speed boost and the other gets a speed drop doesnt mean that both are switching their specific speed tiers. I think that only applies to the one who has infinite speed because infinite speed cant be particularly reduced at all. Either you have it or do u dont.

So i believe the one with infinite speed would just get reduced to no speed at all, like being frozen in place. While the slower one just gets a simple speed increase

 

[Andykhang]

^I smell NLF up in here. We still don't have any Infi case to check whether it's true or not. Not even game mechanic gone this far.

 

[FictionalBlade101]

But it shouldnt be an NLF. Trick Room has every requirement and implication of being a reality warping type of hax, the laws within it are even totally different then what happens outside it. A moves effect like Flame Charge was totally reversed when its natural effect is to increase speed, not decrease it.

How would this be an NLF?

 

[FictionalBlade101]

Also, for reference, I think this would also count as pocket dimension creation too since Trick Room is making a "room" that has a different space with different laws then the reality outside it

Hence Flame Charge's natural effects working in reverse while inside Trick Room

Sawyer even refered to Trick Room to be like a "mysterious space"

 

[SwordSlayer99]

This seems fine to me.

 

[Andykhang]

But it shouldnt be an NLF. Trick Room has every requirement and implication of being a reality warping type of hax, the laws within it are even totally different then what happens outside it. A moves effect like Flame Charge was totally reversed when its natural effect is to increase speed, not decrease it.
How would this be an NLF?

Because, there isn't a single feat that said Infi char would have been grinded to a halt because of it. It's dangerous to just bring it to infinity just because of many instance of speed that isn't infi.

 

[FictionalBlade101]

Because, there isn't a single feat that said Infi char would have been grinded to a halt because of it. It's dangerous to just bring it to infinity just because of many instance of speed that isn't infi.
A feat wouldnt matter here. Because look at it this way, If we view Trick Room as a form of reality warping then unless u have resistance to it, no matter how much stats in other categories you have (unless omnipotence), you would still be effected by it as Reality Warping is a tier ignoring ability. Its not really considered an NLF this way.

Im saying a character with infinite speed who gets trapped in Trick Room COULD have it's infinite speed reduced to NO speed at all as THAT would be the opposite of infinite and because of the fact that infinite speed cannot be reduced partially. Its either u have it or you don't.

 

[Andykhang]

Yeah, COULD have, remember that. And not trying to put that into the profile unless feat are shown, because this is one of the only sure-fire way what you're saying is true.

 

[FictionalBlade101]

Yes but again, its extremely debateable. I would ask the admins for a better imput to see what they think about that