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About the Gentle Pull (Mario Bros.)

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Vs Debating websites have the problem of basically inventing stuff from extrapolation and when you look for it anywhere else and there's literally nothing... That's when you know the thing you're talking about probably doesn't exist.
 
Damn, because someone vaguely refers to a power doing one thing in one game, it is automatically assumed to apply to literally every game before and after that even vaguely aligns with a ridiculously broad theme?
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I think you misunderstood me. If the theme itself is described as an actual power, that theme is consistent within the series, not just happening to one person either, then why would it apply to one game? It implies it never does so again. In-fact it would be silly to just say "Okay, I'll help Mario just this one time". It does so to Mario, Luigi, Peach, Rosalina, and Luma. So it isn't a selective few, it's if that person is your special one. And yes, the examples I listed are of important characters. Rosalina is here stating that the force reunites people from desire. If it was worded differently, I'd see the point.

Concepts are commonly referred to as if they were a physical thing. Its not all that uncommon.
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Difference here however is that those are common metaphors for random places. Here, it is very much a thing that is described as the reason Mario is reunited. And hell, the power of love is very much a thing in Mario: The Purity Heart. So seeing as things like the concept of love are legitimate powers, even wishing, then... yeah. Desire is less of a stretch.

I guess I should bring up other stuff.

"We have met many times, as you two well rememberrrr... The day Bowser ate the giga-carrot was the day our fates crosssssed... Heh heh heh heh... It is clear we are connected by a fate that is beyond our poor comprehensionnnn..."




Here we have one of the Great Sages saying a fate ended up bringing them up together that is beyond their comprehension in order to defeat the Dark Star and yet again, reunite.

"Did you make a wish, Mario? You probably wished for Princess Peach to be safe, am I right? My wish was that we'd get all six Big Paint Stars back, of course!"

"There it is! The Big Paint Star! My wish! My wish is coming true! I bet that shooting star heard my wish. That means your wish will also come true, Mario!"




So Huey's desire to be reunited with the paint stars comes true. I mean, we see it. It should also be noted that paint stars are living beings, so it counts. Plus Mario's wish also comes true.
 
I think it's just the way that theme is described in that one game. The other examples you gave are clearly different descriptions of the same literary theme.

I think the important part of your second quote to highlight is I bet that shooting star heard my wish. Not that some gentle pull heard the wish, but that that shooting star did. And your first quote described it as fate.

All the games describe it differently, which makes me think it's that game's way of justifying the theme, and not some unified force across all of them. Generally the cases of universal forces/supreme beings across a disparate cosmology have much stronger statements supporting them that are much more unified in their messaging than this.
 
Here we have one of the Great Sages saying a fate ended up bringing them up together that is beyond their comprehension
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Here I should also mention the next time they mention about their comprehensions, the next Great Sage, Chakron, refers to their unenlightenment about the universe. The character there is also someone who has been absorbing outer waves from the universe for a thousand years into his mind. So I should say he's pretty smart.

 
Agnaa said:
I think the important part of your second quote to highlight is I bet that shooting star heard my wish. Not that some gentle pull heard the wish, but that that shooting star did. And your first quote described it as fate.
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See, I would agree that if wishes and shooting stars haven't already been described in Mario. In Super Mario RPG, there are these things called wish stars. They contain the wishes of other people. Now there is a key difference. A wish star is formed from someone's wish, meaning they make the wish first, star later. Here it displays them making the wish come after. Unless the Star Spirits changed, that is not how wishes work in Mario. First quote though goes with me saying more than once that desire is their fate of being reunited. It already has Fate Manipulation on its profile too.

Agnaa said:
All the games describe it differently, which makes me think it's that game's way of justifying the theme, and not some unified force across all of them. Generally the cases of universal forces/supreme beings across a disparate cosmology have much stronger statements supporting them that are much more unified in their messaging than this.
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Though not really. First one is stating they fates crossed and met again on the day Bowser ate the carrot by something beyond their comprehension. Next one is Mario and Huey "wishing" (a wish is a desire) for being reunited for separate others.
 
DatOneWeeb said:
If the theme itself is described as an actual power, that theme is consistent within the series, not just happening to one person either, then why would it apply to one game?
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I’m in agreement on this. Especially since Mario Galaxy is considered canon to majority, if not all, of the Mario games.
 
The Gentle Pull has a similar situation going on like Archie Sonic’s FateHax, so I understand the concept.
 
Unless the Star Spirits changed, that is not how wishes work in Mario.

Or maybe wishes work differently in different Mario games from different sources? There are countless concepts across Mario that are similar but different across games. It's absolutely ridiculous to me for you to say "Well wishes worked differently in this one game, so it can't be wishes in this other game, it has to be something completely unrelated, like the gentle pull!"
 
If I'm honest, the Gentle Pull is too vague as is to have a profile on the site. It doesn't have any listed stats and any powers and abilities it has are based solely on potentially flowery statements. I brought it up in the CRTs at the start of the year but it was glossed over. Put me down for deleting it.
 
Theuser789 said:
Fatehax doesn't have a page tho, it's just a ability
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Well, FateHax was never described as having it’s own thoughts, or what you consider thoughts. And it only effects one individual.

It’s vague but the arguments DatOneWeeb is making does convince me it exists, even if it’s vague.
 
There are multiple ways of wish granting in Mario. However these are major differences.

Wish Stars: These stars are again, formed by wishes and is done from the Star Spirits, using the power of the Star Rod. This only source of wishes that do shooting stars, each other source has displayed what a wish looks like.

The Royal Stickers don't do this.



The Thousand-Fold Technique doesn't do this.



The Bean Star I assume doesn't do it.



The Dream Stone doesn't do it.



So to use the assumption that it was from a different source is headcanon and is often displayed to shown otherwise.
 
Wish Stars: These stars are again, formed by wishes and is done from the Star Spirits, using the power of the Star Rod. This only source of wishes that do shooting stars, each other source has displayed what a wish looks like. The Royal Stickers don't do this.

I don't understand your argument here? I haven't played any of those games besides Superstar Saga, but I wouldn't expect them to make mention of Star Spirits or the Star Rod.

Superstar Saga's beanstar is far from that.
 
Agnaa said:
I don't understand your argument here? I haven't played any of those games besides Superstar Saga, but I wouldn't expect them to make mention of Star Spirits or the Star Rod.
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My argument is that assuming that the wish from Color Splash is from a different source is wonky since this type of wishing was done from Super Mario RPG and continued in Paper Mario. Superstar Saga referenced Paper Mario. The Origami King and Sticker Star are a part of the same game series, plus TOK references all past Paper Mario games.

So I still think my points stand.
 
It definitely wasn't done in Superstar Saga.

I haven't played the other games, but I seriously doubt that they were done in the same way there.
 
I uh, don't think we're on the same page.

What I am trying to say is, the wish from Color Splash would have to be done in the same method as SMRPG/Paper Mario for it to work. Meaning Mario and Huey's wish was never done by the shooting star. The links posted were to display while there are different sources of wishes, they never take the form of stars. Meaning Mario and Huey never made an actual wish.
 
Why do you think it would have to be done in the same method for it to work? For something as common as a hecking wish, in a series this long there's bound to be different ways to achieve it.

Just because it wasn't done in the exact particular method specified by one other game doesn't mean it's not a wish.
 
Because the only time we've seen shooting stars relating to wishes are Super Mario RPG and Paper Mario, both games being related. I'd also like to mention those games are the only ones that actually shows you can make wishes on your own. The other examples I listed specifically require you to obtain that item before wishing.

And seeing as how both TOK (Paper Mario series) and Superstar Saga (M&L series) acknowledges the first Paper Mario:




Safe to say it's done as it was in the first Paper Mario.
 
Because the only time we've seen shooting stars relating to wishes are Super Mario RPG and Paper Mario

Oh, so it's just the exact same argument I responded to earlier, but replacing "wishes" with "wishes that somehow relate to shooting stars".
Or maybe wishes work differently in different Mario games from different sources? There are countless concepts across Mario that are similar but different across games. It's absolutely ridiculous to me for you to say "Well wishes worked differently in this one game, so it can't be wishes in this other game, it has to be something completely unrelated, like the gentle pull!"
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They clearly don't function the same way because that's the crux of your argument. "They work differently so they can't ACTUALLY be wishes, it must be this completely separate gentle pull thing that has nothing to do with it!"
 
I'm not saying that shooting star wasn't a wish, it's just unlikely it was done by Mario or Huey if they made the wish afterwards. Saying they're from a different source is headcanon when we've seen from the exact same sub-series on how they work.
 
From the quote it doesn't sound like the wish was made afterwards.

I don't see how saying it's from a different source is headcanon if they function completely differently, the only commonality being the absurdly common fictional trope of "Wishing upon a star".
 
Agnaa said:
I don't see how saying it's from a different source is headcanon if they function completely differently, the only commonality being the absurdly common fictional trope of "Wishing upon a star".
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That kind proves they are the same.

Other common wishing tropes:

Wishing Well

Genies

Randomly saying “I wish for something” and it happens.

Fairies

Dealing with the Devil

“the only commonality being the absurdly common fictional trope of "Wishing upon a star"”

If Mario is consistently using Wishing Stars instead of other wish granting tropes, than there is commonality.
 
He uses them twice and they function completely differently (shooting stars for wishing, non-shooting stars are used more times and function even more differently).

In what world is that proof for "Actually one of them isn't wishing upon a star, it's a gentle pull to someone who's important to you."

it just doesn't follow no matter how you cut it.
 
Agnaa, Wish Stars are only displayed to be made before you make a wish, not after, stop ignoring this.



Notice how this, and many other Wish Stars in this level, are already shown made. This Wish won't come true until later on, further proving my point. Why the hell would they not be the same when it's the same series and acknowledge the first games.
 
Am I having a ******* aneurysm?

Your argument was that they didn't function differently, therefore it had to be TGP instead of wish stars.

They wouldn't be the same because they function differently and that is your argument.

See, I would agree that if wishes and shooting stars haven't already been described in Mario. In Super Mario RPG, there are these things called wish stars. They contain the wishes of other people. Now there is a key difference. A wish star is formed from someone's wish, meaning they make the wish first, star later. Here it displays them making the wish come after. Unless the Star Spirits changed, that is not how wishes work in Mario.
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Stop schizophrenically switching between arguments for the love of god. I have been consistent like this while you've been flip-flopping back and forth.
 
Stop cherrypicking my arguments.

A wish star is formed from someone's wish, meaning they make the wish first
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My argument is that assuming that the wish from Color Splash is from a different source is wonky since this type of wishing was done from Super Mario RPG and continued in Paper Mario.
Click to expand...
I literally say this is the Wish Star method, only that wish wasn't made by Mario nor Huey. A wish star is created AFTER making a wish. When I say this is not how wishes work, that's me saying Mario making a wish during a shooting star isn't how wish stars work, thus it wasn't him who made that wish. Not to mention a Wish Star has a wish for each specifc one. Huey's was with the paint star. Mario's was with Peach. There's only one shooting star. They did not make that Wish Star, thus it was pure desire, much like every other Mario game.

 
Please explain why the frick you brought this up as proof for The Gentle Pull.
 
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