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About speed feats with weapons

Even though it may roughly half the value, if not much more if it a larger blade such as Sephiroth's sword, or Gut's sword?
I mean, I seen a calc that had a blade length of less than 0.5 meters...with only using the arm length, it went from Mach 959.45 to Mach 580, which is quite a significant difference. Calcs that use multiple slashes...the distance those slashes move, can really add up and inflate the value by quite a margin.
Yeah, I'm aware. But that still is the correct attack speed, the sword really is moving that fast. Now in real life you can argue that the enemy is reacting to the arm movement, not the sword, but that's a pretty stupid distinction to make when we have people attacking at supersonic speeds and fiction basically never makes that distinction. So in substance I think it's fine as is.
 
Yeah, I'm aware. But that still is the correct attack speed, the sword really is moving that fast. Now in real life you can argue that the enemy is reacting to the arm movement, not the sword, but that's a pretty stupid distinction to make when we have people attacking at supersonic speeds. So in substance I think it's fine as is.
Attack speed? Yes, as that is how fast the sword itself is moving.
But how about combat speed? The calc is relying on the length of the sword to find the distance traveled in those slashes, rather than the raw speed of the character's arm; thus their physical body.
 
Attack speed? Yes, as that is how fast the sword itself is moving.
... yeah
But how about combat speed? The calc is relying on the length of the sword to find the distance traveled in those slashes, rather than the raw speed of the character's arm; thus their physical body.
I am aware of that. I think you need to consider that there's always some level of approximation that our standards must follow, we can never be 100% accurate. So I think it's kind of a silly distinction to make even if it's correct on paper.
 
I am aware of that. I think you need to consider that there's always some level of approximation that our standards must follow, we can never be 100% accurate. So I think it's kind of a silly distinction to make even if it's correct on paper.
Again, following that, a character with a galaxy-size blade would still scale to MFTL+. I believe they should only scale if they are explicitly shown to move faster than the sword itself. Simply assuming a character can move as fast as their sword is pretty ridiculous, and doesn't make a lot of sense as the length of the sword naturally moves far faster than the user's body.

So, I believe they should only scale...if they are proven to move as fast, or faster than the sword swing itself.
 
You understand that there is a bit of a distinction between "3 meter sword" and "300000000000000000 meter sword", right? Obviously if it's the latter case then it should not scale to combat speed, but I think the distinction isn't worth making in the former case. Making absurd examples such as this doesn't really work.
 
You understand that there is a bit of a distinction between "3 meter sword" and "300000000000000000 meter sword", right? Obviously if it's the latter case then it should not scale to combat speed, but I think the distinction isn't worth making in the former case. Making absurd examples such as this doesn't really work.
Agreed. Not to mention that most characters in fiction can easily perceive their own attacks and even change attacks mid-way.
 
You understand that there is a bit of a distinction between "3 meter sword" and "300000000000000000 meter sword", right? Obviously if it's the latter case then it should not scale to combat speed, but I think the distinction isn't worth making in the former case. Making absurd examples such as this doesn't really work.
Even though a 1m sword would move around 2.333x faster than the user's arm?
And again, this is a one meter sword, for a 3m sword, the sword would be 5x faster than the arm, assuming the same angular velocity.
Agreed. Not to mention that most characters in fiction can easily perceive their own attacks and even change attacks mid-way.
That's the problem though: Angular velocity, and that all portions of the blade hit at the same time (if it is a straight blade); reacting to the tip of the sword, is just as easy as reacting to the arm of the user.
 
Even though a 1m sword would move around 2.333x faster than the user's arm?
And again, this is a one meter sword, for a 3m sword, the sword would be 5x faster than the arm, assuming the same angular velocity.

That's the problem though: Angular velocity, and that all portions of the blade at the same time (if it is a straight blade); reacting to the tip of the sword, is just as easy as reacting to the arm of the user.
Again, fiction is not going to make that distinction almost 99% of the time. Like, ever.
 
And what if it actually does? Just because it is likely, does not mean it is always right to do.
If it does then it is an exception, not a rule.

Also angular velocity isn't going to save you from an oncoming supersonic slash if you don't have the appropriate speed to make up for it. Compensation is key.
 
Even though a 1m sword would move around 2.333x faster than the user's arm?
yeah
And again, this is a one meter sword, for a 3m sword, the sword would be 5x faster than the arm, assuming the same angular velocity.
yeah
That's the problem though: Angular velocity, and that all portions of the blade hit at the same time (if it is a straight blade); reacting to the tip of the sword, is just as easy as reacting to the arm of the user.
oh well
And what if it actually does? Just because it is likely, does not mean it is always right to do.
Then we actually take that into account.
 
The attack is only supersonic because of the length of the sword.
For a slash to become supersonic, the arm would only need to move around 147 m/s, and because the tip of the sword needs to travel more distance, you would still have time to dodge it, as if it was a 147 m/s attack.
 
The attack is only supersonic because of the length of the sword.
For a slash to become supersonic, the arm would only need to move around 147 m/s, and because the tip of the sword needs to travel more distance, you would still have time to dodge it, as if it was a 147 m/s attack.
Here's the thing, the arm isn't the closest thing to you in that situation, it's the blade's tip, and it's inches away from slicing you up. What do you do then?
 
Here's the thing, the arm isn't the closest thing to you in that situation, it's the blade's tip, and it's inches away from slicing you up. What do you do then?
Again; the tip of the sword would impact you the same exact time as any other part of the radius, including the arm.
 
So, you would have the same exact time to dodge the tip of the sword, as if you had to dodge the arm.
 
If it does then it is an exception, not a rule.
It would probably be the other way round given our standards. Also, 99% percent of people know that the edge of a weapon moves faster.
 
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In fact, the handguard would actually be the hardest thing to evade, as it extends outwards; giving you less time before it hits you.
 
It would probably be the other way round given our standards.
Assuming the verse follows the laws of angular velocity to begin with.

Also, 99% percent of people know what the edge of a weapon moves faster.

OK and? Not sure how that affects dodging the weapon at the very tip or seeing it in slow motion. Or controlling it mid-way.
 
We assume such things for verses in general. It's double standards to act as if these kinds of things exist and then dump them.

How wouldn't it? I don't get your logic here.

Edit: I think you changed the second part or I just didn't see it (it's 12 AM). I agree with that second bit and actually argued this earlier.
 
By that logic, a 1km blade is also an extension of them as well, making it also account for the same thing.
By your logic, characters with somewhat long arms shouldn't have speed feats of moving their arms really fast because the speed only scales to the tip of their fingers, I can agree to unreasonably long swords, but swords from 1-3 Meters long that are consistently reacted to are fine

Like I don't think this is worth the change
 
By your logic, characters with somewhat long arms shouldn't have speed feats moving their arms really fast because the speed only scales to their fingers
Remember what I said: They should only scale to their physical body, such as their arms, legs, etc.
So, characters with long arms would scale to it, as they must physically move their own body to achieve that speed, rather than an extension to inflate the results.
 
Edit: I think you changed the second part or I just didn't see it (it's 12 AM). I agree with that second bit and actually argued this earlier.
Yeah I was arguing for scaling to dodging the weapon at the very tip, seeing it in slow-mo or outright controlling the weapon mid-attack. Which I have no doubt a crapton of characters in fiction can do, like, all the time.
 
By your logic, characters with somewhat long arms shouldn't have speed feats of moving their arms really fast because the speed only scales to the tip of their fingers, I can agree to unreasonably long swords, but swords from 1-3 Meters long that are consistently reacted to are fine

Like I don't think this is worth the change
Dude with this logic, Giants bigger than 3 meters would get different attack speed for swinging punches compared to reaction speed.

Thats whack.
 
Remember what I said: They should only scale to their physical body, such as their arms, legs, etc.
So, characters with long arms would scale to it, as they must physically move their own body to achieve that speed, rather than a extension to inflate the results.
Refer to what Armorchompy said. Also this kind of argument would absolutely not work if the character were to spin their weapon separately like a blender's rotating blades by twirling their fingers and swinging the weapon like some keychain.
 
Remember what I said: They should only scale to their physical body, such as their arms, legs, etc.
So, characters with long arms would scale to it, as they must physically move their own body to achieve that speed, rather than an extension to inflate the results.
But a sword is basically an extension of the arm, the entire point of a sword is to extend the attack range of a human, it is just as valid for speed feats as anything

This is like saying that AP feats should only be counted without weapons, because the weapons aren't an inherent part of the human's body and moveset
 
But a sword is basically an extension of the arm, the entire point of a sword is to extend the attack range of a human, it is just as valid for speed feats as anything

This is like saying that AP feats should only be counted without weapons, because the weapons aren't an inherent part of the human's body and moveset
Even IRL some weapons can only be as strong as their wielder's strength allows them to be.
 
But a sword is basically an extension of the arm, the entire point of a sword is to extend the attack range of a human, it is just as valid for speed feats as anything

This is like saying that AP feats should only be counted without weapons, because the weapons aren't an inherent part of the human's body and moveset
Melee weapons are essentially a "force multiplier", something used to increase the damage output of a user; so they would scale higher with weapons.
Like, a normal human would be "10-B, 9-C with weapons"

It is an extension of an arm, but that's only to increase the force and range of an attack. Once again, it is just as easy to dodge any part of the radius as another part of it. Dodging the tip of a sword is just as easy as reacting to the arm that is swinging the sword; since the distance a sword needs to travel increases exponentially to its length.
 
Melee weapons are essentially a "force multiplier", something used to increase the damage output of a user; so they would scale higher with weapons.
Like, a normal human would be "10-B, 9-C with weapons"

It is an extension of an arm, but that's only to increase the force and range of an attack. Once again, it is just as easy to dodge any part of the radius as another part of it. Dodging the tip of a sword is just as easy as reacting to the arm that is swinging the sword; since the distance a sword needs to travel increases exponentially to its length.
I just flat out don't agree, speed of weapons that are used regularly in combat and people react to them all the time

I'm never going to agree to nuking speed feats performed with weapons
 
Melee weapons are essentially a "force multiplier", something used to increase the damage output of a user; so they would scale higher with weapons.
Like, a normal human would be "10-B, 9-C with weapons"

It is an extension of an arm, but that's only to increase the force and range of an attack. Once again, it is just as easy to dodge any part of the radius as another part of it. Dodging the tip of a sword is just as easy as reacting to the arm that is swinging the sword; since the distance a sword needs to travel increases exponentially to its length.
The force of an attack really depends on how strong you are. Only reason they can amplify our strength is due to abusing of surface area, especially in the case of sharp, pointy blade-like weapons.
 
So, do soldiers throughout history have Superhuman combat speed? Since I am pretty damn sure they can react to sword slashes from other opponents.
At least, going by this logic.
Boxers already have Superhuman punching speed with the absolute swiftest of humans possessing Subsonic reactions. Your point is?
 
What we shouldn't do here is just outright generalise.

We should just made our standards more strict to account for this kind of stuff when it happens.

Baki's a good example. There's a character that's slower than Baki himself, but he's able to tag him because the end of his weapon is faster.
 
What we shouldn't do here is just outright generalise.

We should just made our standards more strict to account for this kind of stuff when it happens.

Baki's a good example. There's a character that's slower than Baki himself, but he's able to tag him because the end of his weapon is faster.
More like an exception just happened with Baki's side.

Like Armorchompy said, if it is explicitly shown there, then fine, account for it. But if it doesn't, there's no point.
 
I still disagree there. If they're equal characters that can do this, we should ignore it. If not, we shouldn't.
 
I mean we do give boxers superhuman attack speed already, this wouldn't really be any different. And I'm not saying the calculations would be difficult to make, it just ain't worth it to go back to every single calc of this kind to redo it.
This and the adressed issue does make me question of the value of a Superhuman speed tag... I mean, it isn't Superhuman if humans can do that, and from more than one source.
 
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