About Kyurem's AP

[Ionliosite]

So, Kyurem's AP is rated as this: At least Planet level, likely Solar System level (As the being Team Plasma used in its world domination attempt, existing as their magnum opus, it should be superior to Genesect and the technology used to upgrade it). It can ignore durability to some extent with Dragon Rage

The thing is, Ghetsis' plan involved freezing cities, which Genesect can't do, and absorbing N's Legendary, which Genesect very much cannot do. On the other hand, there's the whole "Kyurem being their magnum opus" thing, which is very iffy considering they didn't make Kyurem, but Kyurem Black/White.

On that note, Keldeo's profile says this about his Resolute Form's AP: At least Planet level+, likely Solar System level (Was able to match and almost defeat a full power Black Kyurem. More powerful than Mega Rayquaza, Mega Mewtwo X/Y and Deoxys)

Where does Resolute Keldeo being "more powerful than Mega Rayquaza, Mega Mewtwo X/Y and Deoxys" come from?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

The genesect portion was already addressed before. Team Plasma would have never selected Kyurem over Genesect if Genesect was superior to the Tao Trio's power, and it also implies their technology would be stronger than them too. Which is a definite no.

Resolute Keldeo is stronger than them because it nearly defeated full powered Black Kyurem, whos > Reshiram & Zekrom, who are > Base Kyurem, whos > Genesect. Pretty much the same thing.

 

[Ionliosite]

If that's the reasoning, then that should be explained on the profile, because just claiming Keldeo is > Mega Rayquaza without explaining why is really weird.

 

[Armorchompy]

I'd argue that since Black/White Kyurem was what Ghetsis was planning to get, that's the one that should upscale from Genesect, not normal Kyurem. Furthermore, shouldn't the Genesect it scales from be on par with the weak ones from the Mewtwo movie, and not the shiny one? After all, the in-game one is shiny locked and the red one seems to be particularly strong for its kind.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Genesect in general is the same tier so it wouldnt be that much of an AP difference. Plus I don't recall the red one being that much stronger compared to non-shiny Genesects.

 

[Ionliosite]

Regular Genesect closer to Mewtwo level unlike Shiny's Mega Mewtwo level.

 

[Peter1129]

Oh right speaking of this I kinda forgot to bring this up when the final online chapter of B2W2 came out. Basically in the manga Shiny Genesect was able to fight and beat back Resolute Keldeo. So yeah there's probably some problems with the scaling now.

Also a couple of chapter ago Colress also specifically said Shiny Genesect is much better and can't be compared to a normal Genesect. So Shiny Genesect is much stronger than a normal Genesect.

 

[Armorchompy]

Besides, didn't Mewtwo need to go Mega to beat that Genesect, while she could deal with the others with relative ease? That's a pretty big difference.

Also, I wouldn't say it's a scaling problem.

Mewtwo > Genesect < Black/White Kyurem (And possibly normal Kyurem as well) >= Resolute Keldeo

Mewtwo < Mega Mewtwo => Red Genesect < Resolute Keldeo

It's really weird, but it makes sense.Though it does imply Mewtwo is around equal to B/W Kyurem, and Mega is superior to it. It might cause some problems in the bigger picture though.

Edit: This is more subjective, I guess, but I'd argue part of the reason Ghetsis used Kyurem instead of Genesect is cause, first off, it helped get N's legendary out of the picture, which likely would beat Genesect (especially if it's Reshiram), and because he really hates N, so hurting him by absorbing his Pokemon, then killing him is something he'd really enjoy.

Edit 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDOTrnOwi78 apparently the person who finished Genesect isn't even with Team Plasma anymore, so maybe they didn't even know of its existance. Then again, the Pokedex says it was modified by team Plasma... maybe it simplifies, referring to the first modifications, before N shut it down?

 

[Armorchompy]

Bump, I don't want this to be forgotten so easily when I haven't received much of an answer.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

>Besides, didn't Mewtwo need to go Mega to beat that Genesect, while she could deal with the others with relative ease? That's a pretty big difference.

No, the other Genesect were very much keeping up with Base Mewtwo, managed to damage it and tanked multiple of Mewtwos attacks without any issue. In fact, they as a group even staggered Mega Mewtwo and tanked a PSYstrike from it (but keeping up with Base is more consistent).

>Also, I wouldn't say it's a scaling problem.

It wouldn't be. The scaling just gets modified to switch Kyurem /Keldeo and Red Genesect/Mega Mewtwo's places in the chain.

As it is now, it's Resolute Keldeo >= Black/White Kyurem > Reshiram/Zekrom > Base Kyurem > Red Genesect = Mega Mewtwo > Normal Genesect = Base Mewtwo

It would just change to Red Genesect = Mega Mewtwo > Resolute Keldeo >= Black/White Kyurem > Reshiram/Zekrom > Base Kyurem > Base Genesect = Base Mewtwo.

Red Genesect and Mega Mewtwo would take the place at the top of the chain and make Black/White Kyurem and Keldeo go second.

 

[Armorchompy]

Still, fighting as one on equal terms with four would imply she's a fair bit stronger than them individually.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Well no ones saying they have to be stronger than Base Mewtwo. Just that they're comparable.

 

[Armorchompy]

Oh, they definitely are comparable, just a bit inferior, I think. And I also made an argument as to why Base Kyurem isn't necessarily superior to Genesect.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Well part of your argument goes to only support the scaling more. You argued Ghietist using Kyurem to get rid of the legendary N would use, which would likely beat Genesect.

Ghetis would've never opted to use Kyurem to do that if he wasn't superior to Genesect.

 

[Armorchompy]

He gets rid of Reshiram/Zekrom via absorbing them, not beating them in a proper fight, we actually treat Reshiram and Zekrom as superior to Kyurem iirc, and since by absorbing them he becomes Black/White Kyurem, I'd argue that's the one confirmedly superior to Genesect, not base Kyurem.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

We do, but we don't treat Reshiram and Zekrom as being massively superior to Base Kyurem. Him being able to absorb them by force moreso points to the idea that he's at least near their level of power.

 

[Armorchompy]

It's more of a built-in, single target sort of hax imo, he doesn't defeat them, just poke them with a tendril and absorb them. I do agree he's kinda comparable, but either way the Tao duo doesn't really scale above Genesect either.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Well I disagree with that still. There's nothing suggesting the Tao duo are weaker than Genesect besides what was already discussed and decided.

 

[Armorchompy]

I'm not saying they're necessarily weaker, just that we have no direct scaling between them.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

I still don't know where Resolute 'Keldo > Mega Ray' came from.

 

[Arceus0x]

imma bump this real quick

 

[Ionliosite]

Why do you bump this?

 

[Armorchompy]

Yeah, this is all getting deleted eventually.