about god of destruction feat...

[HrishikeshM]

zeno can destroy 12 universes so that is a 2-c feat...2 universes dont count as 2-c?

 

[PaChi2]

Is everyone sure that this statement isnt referring to the fact that Zeno would erase the universes if two GoD fought? Because it seems weird to me that if, say, Belmod fought Beerus, why would U11 be affected when it isnt even the closest to U7.

Can anyone answer me?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Check above.

We see Zeno's erasure work on a Tier 2 level.

We know Zeno's erasure could erase 12 universes.

 

[Huesito88]

good one

 

[HrishikeshM]

@PaChi2

speculation...it was never implied to be because of zeno...and it was implied twice to be because of gods battle

 

[Antvasima]

@PaChi2

I do not think that it was referring to Zen'o.

 

[PaChi2]

Well, for one, beerus didnt care if the universe was erased when he fought goku, therefore, it must be the fact that he is fighting another GoD what makes this "special". Since Zeno rules over gods, I assumed that the problem was related to him. And we know that Zeno is willing to erase anything he doesnt like.

 

[HrishikeshM]

hold on...again zeno can definitely erase 12 universes so he is 2-c...ok not even arguing that

and destroying 2 universes is not 2-c?

or

if destroying 2 universes is treated as 3-a for dragonball, then zenos feat would also be 3-a and all of them would be low 2-c because of scaling...

 

[HrishikeshM]

i want to press the fact again, that in a simple show like dragonball a universe bust is not treated differently than a spacetime bust...

so feats should be taken at face value...you can argue if only 1 universe is destroyed that it could either be 3-a or low 2-c but when more than one universe is involved, it should be considered 2-c

if i paint a hypothetical picture and say that in the future of the show, a new god is stated to be stronger than zamasu and destroys 4 universes, how will you all rate the feat? 3-a because he did not say spacetime? or low 2-c because of scaling from zamasu? or 2-c because of the feat like you did with zeno?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Again:

• A character merging with an entire timeline is directly affecting space-time.

• Zeno erasing said character from existence is directly affecting space-time.

• Destroying everything in two universes, void of any other context, is not affecting space-time.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Except Zeno straight up kills a guy who is merging with space-time. This isn't even remotely comparable.

I actually have a small question about this if you don't mind me asking Azzy.

It's not that I disagree with 2-C Zen'o, I don't and agree with it, just something about this reasoning makes me wonder about something.

 

[HrishikeshM]

• A character merging with an entire timeline is directly affecting space-time.

a low 2-c character. ok

• Zeno erasing said character from existence is directly affecting space-time.

means zeno can affect spacetime, just like how beerus can also do because he is low 2-c too...only the number of universes is deifferent

• Destroying everything in two universes, void of any other context, is not affecting space-time.

except they did not say 'everything in the universe', they said 'both universes' like as a whole

 

[HrishikeshM]

if i paint a hypothetical picture and say that in the future of the show, a new god is stated to be stronger than zamasu and destroys 4 universes, how will you all rate the feat? 3-a because he did not say spacetime? or low 2-c because of scaling from zamasu? or 2-c because of the feat like you did with zeno?


some body can answer my question?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Again we have the backwards logic of

>Guy is 3-A due to universal destruction feats

>Suddenly scale to a Low 2-C guy

>People start to retroactively assume that his 3-A feats are Low 2-C or 2-C when there's 0 evidence for it.

Or even worse

> God-Tier of the verse can do 2-C feats

>Let's make fodders 2-C because they have similar feats which are contextually completely different.

 

[Kepekley23]

Matt put it into perspective.

Kyo Takashi's "God-Tiers are lightyears above Top-Tiers" BS is finally good for something OvO

 

[HrishikeshM]

">People start to retroactively assume that his 3-A feats are Low 2-C or 2-C when there's 0 evidence for it."

yes, because beerus' 3-a feat was when he massively held back. gods fighting was never a 3-a feat. it was assumed to be 3-a because of no evidence and now we do have evidence. things change with time.

"> God-Tier of the verse can do 2-C feats

>Let's make fodders 2-C because they have similar feats which are contextually completely different."

what kind of logic is that? seriously what? just because a god tier can destroy 12 universes casually means that a lower tiers cannot destroy 2 universes? what?

 

[HrishikeshM]

if i paint a hypothetical picture and say that in the future of the show, a new god is stated to be stronger than zamasu and destroys 4 universes, how will you all rate the feat? 3-a because he did not say spacetime? or low 2-c because of scaling from zamasu? or 2-c because of the feat like you did with zeno?

some body can answer my question?

so what happens when this new guy is introduced? what will you do then?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

You can't just assume that he can do Low 2-C feats for no reason when the feats that made him 3-A were 3-A because no evidence of space-time destruction.

And again, Beerus + Champa destroying two universes = One universe each. It's not 2-C.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I'll actually just ask my question now. Now regarding Zen'o affecting space-time via destroying Zamasu...

Firstly, we've all long established that Zamasu didn't become fully one with the timeline yet as he was still in the process of merging with it. In other words, there's still a distinguishable difference between Zamasu and that of the timeline, making them somewhat separate but connected.

If that is the case, then wouldn't the reason why Zen'o destroyed the timeline at all was because he destroyed Zamasu, who was still continuing to become the timeline? For example, we can take a beam and a building. In the infostructure, the beam holds up and supports everything to keep it from falling apart. In this case, Zamasu is the beam and the timeline is the infostructure. If you get rid of Zamasu, then shouldnt the infostructure (timeline) be subsiquently destroyed as well?

Again, im not saying Zen'o can't destroy space-time, I just question this specific instance.

 

[HrishikeshM]

You can't just assume that he can do Low 2-C feats for no reason when the feats that made him 3-A were 3-A because no evidence of space-time destruction.
And again, Beerus + Champa destroying two universes = One universe each. It's not 2-C.

still it is borderline feat...

now im going away for a while so i expect this thread would not be closed until all my doubts have been resolved when i come back...

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I think we should downgrade Zeno to Low 2-C scaling from Zamasu. If he truly destroyed the timeline the time machine wouldn't have been able to travel to it. OWO

 

[Antvasima]

I think that Zen'o should stay at 2-C.

 

[Kepekley23]

Matt was kidding.

 

[Antvasima]

Although if other characters reach 2-C in the future, and Zen'o is still considered infinitely above them, we will have to place him at unknown.

 

[Antvasima]

@Kepekley23

Okay.

 

[Kepekley23]

It's an easy mistake.

Anyway, all of his questions have been answered and rebuked, and this is starting to get repetitive IMO.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, I think that we should close this thread.

 

[HrishikeshM]

i still have unanswered questions

what if beerus destroys 2 universes alone? would it still be counted as a low 2-c or 3-a feat? no one answered my previous question so i simplified it...

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Rendering two universes empty voids: 3-A

Completely destroying/erasing two universes on a fundamental level, space-time and all: 2-C

 

[HrishikeshM]

and as for this feat:

being capable of destroying 2 universes just by fighting in only one of the universes as side effect when you are not ever attacking the universe itself, would still yield a much higher result than low 2-c if we apply conventional methods. just like how destroying only 1 universe through combat yields a value far higher in the multi galaxy scale, almost nigh universal.

as antvasima said, it is on the borderline...nobody addressed that too

 

[HrishikeshM]

Rendering two universes empty voids: 3-A
Completely destroying/erasing two universes on a fundamental level, space-time and all: 2-C

i know that...dragonball does not differentiate...

what if the statement is only like "he can destroy/destroyed universe 6 and 7"?

because exactly this type of statement was used for zeno except for the numbers "zeno sama can destroy all the universes in the blink of an eye"

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

...Except it does, though.

"It doesn't differentiate" isn't even a real argument, any more. People just throw this around whenever, despite the fact that Dragon Ball Super has made clear distinctions between an entire timeline and the physical stuff in a universe.

 

[HrishikeshM]

the statement i am talking about in the op makes no such difference. it only says "both universes will be destroyed"

i am just asking if this feat is 2-c? lets forget the characters involved here, just focus on the feat...2-c or 3-a? based on your answer we will know whether destroying 12 universes is 2-c or 3-a...

 

[Antvasima]

Azathoth is most likely correct, as usual.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

The very fact that Zamasu's and Zeno's feats make it clear that space-time is destroyed, and the GoDs don't is proof that there is differentiation.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

A feat simply saying "universes will be destroyed" is not remotely the same as an entire setting not differentiating between the physical things within a universe and a space-time continuum.

You have been told multiple times exactly what the feat is depending on context, and what it is assumed to be if no context is given, based off of the involved characters' previous feats.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, we should probably close this, and tell the people involved not to bring up the topic again, as we cannot constantly spend time on debunking their arguments over and over.

Should we get a discussion rule for this subject?

 

[HrishikeshM]

in zenos feat we have confirmation of spactime of only 1 universe...we don't know about other 11 universes, so by that logic his feat is low 2-c at best.

i am confused, so please answer my question...say after 20 episodes, great priest or beerus gets mad and destroys 4 universes and the only statement we get is that "he destroyed 4 universes"...what would that feat be? 2-c or 3-a?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Probably, yes. This is brought up every tuesday, basically.

 

[Kepekley23]

"Do not try to upgrade the Gods of Destruction to 2-C based on the outcome of a hypothetical Champa and Beerus destroying their respective universes, as the statement likely referred to them destroying all the matter within their universes, and not the space-time".