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About Damn Time - The Soul of Cinder vs The Moon Presence

Soul of Cinder: Mr. Bambu, Therefir, DMUA, Keeweed, Overlord775, Hellbeast1, dzhindzolia

Moon Presence: MeleeniumRXJ

Inconclusive:
 
Could happen. Shadows Die Twice could be a Demon Souls thing. FromSoft DID say a new game was coming that would fit their fan's expectations (a dark RPG)
 
Man this thread is long.

Think about it this way, could the chosen undead beat the moon Presence? Yes, possibly on his first try. (Invincibility frames and repeated butt pokes are useful like that)

Is Soul Of Cinder more powerful than the chosen undead? Yes, though he could beat SoC too.

The Hunter kills the moon presence. Can he kill Soul of Cinder? No. He'd get utterly trashed cuz he doesn't have invincibility frames.

Thus Soul Of Cinder would win! :D


Really though I think SoC is more powerful and would win due to its enormous skill and experience (fighting giant things) advantage, not to mention the magic BS it has for pure power.

My vote goes to SoC
 
The heck happened in this thread, lol?

Anyway, I think SoC can win this due to the fact that it has the combined experience and prowess of the Lords of Cinder while still being more powerful than them. However, it still lacks a resistance to mindhax (it's not on the profile and it's debatable that the state of being that SoC has would change how the mindhax would affect it, if at all, so I'm not counting it).

Hence, I see this as a race against time. Can the SoC defeat the MP before it's a gibbering wreck? On that note, I must ask, how good is the MP's mindhax for reference?

In addition, MP can prevent SoC from healing, which takes away a powerful tool to keep it in the fight.
 
TheC2 said:
The heck happened in this thread, lol?
Anyway, I think SoC can win this due to the fact that it has the combined experience and prowess of the Lords of Cinder while still being more powerful than them. However, it still lacks a resistance to mindhax (it's not on the profile and it's debatable that the state of being that SoC has would change how the mindhax would affect it, if at all, so I'm not counting it).

Hence, I see this as a race against time. Can the SoC defeat the MP before it's a gibbering wreck? On that note, I must ask, how good is the MP's mindhax for reference?

In addition, MP can prevent SoC from healing, which takes away a powerful tool to keep it in the fight
Click to expand...
its exponentaly stronger than kin, who can passivly drive cities insane.

it has abn active mind hax, which could no sell the hunter, who wasent affected by the passive
 
TheC2 said:
The heck happened in this thread, lol?

Anyway, I think SoC can win this due to the fact that it has the combined experience and prowess of the Lords of Cinder while still being more powerful than them. However, it still lacks a resistance to mindhax (it's not on the profile and it's debatable that the state of being that SoC has would change how the mindhax would affect it, if at all, so I'm not counting it).

Hence, I see this as a race against time. Can the SoC defeat the MP before it's a gibbering wreck? On that note, I must ask, how good is the MP's mindhax for reference?

In addition, MP can prevent SoC from healing, which takes away a powerful tool to keep it in the fight.
Click to expand...
The Ashen one has the ability to take away healing and it didn't work on the SoC. Also the SoC's page still needs a bit of work last time I check (that was a few hours ago so I don't know if it's better now), so it probably has resistance to conventional mind control due to being a mass of souls and not an actual person. (Even if we said the moon presence could mind hax it; he would have to mindhax 2 countries worth of people atleast.
 
Keeweed said:
The Ashen one has the ability to take away healing and it didn't work on the SoC. Also the SoC's page still needs a bit of work last time I check (that was a few hours ago so I don't know if it's better now), so it probably has resistance to conventional mind control due to being a mass of souls and not an actual person. (Even if we said the moon presence could mind hax it; he would have to mindhax 2 countries worth of people atleast.
Click to expand...
it can mind hax it as it could mind hax things whitout brains (amalgamations of peapole and such)

and the AMOUNT of peapole, while does affect it, is still not asimportant, it simply needs to mindhax the stronger ones, and even though it has 2 countries of souls, said countries are managed by one mind (the choosen undead).
 
Keeweed said:
The Ashen one has the ability to take away healing and it didn't work on the SoC. Also the SoC's page still needs a bit of work last time I check (that was a few hours ago so I don't know if it's better now), so it probably has resistance to conventional mind control due to being a mass of souls and not an actual person. (Even if we said the moon presence could mind hax it; he would have to mindhax 2 countries worth of people atleast.
Click to expand...
it can mind hax it as it could mind hax things whitout brains (amalgamations of peapole and such)

and the AMOUNT of peapole, while does affect it, is still not asimportant, it simply needs to mindhax the stronger ones, and even though it has 2 countries of souls, said countries are managed by one mind (the choosen undead).
 
What does that mean?

Everlasting replied: Why would a soul have a mind is the question.
 
That doesn't answer how MP could mind hax two countries of souls.
 
Therefir said:
That doesn't answer how MP could mind hax two countries of souls.
Click to expand...
because those countries are led by one mind (the choosen undead was not a hivemind of souls, it was its own being)

and even then, if parts of it goed crazy than it would loose the experience of those parts and it would have the problem of the souls wanting contradicting things (it was as coordinated as it was because of all the souls having a common goal. here they would go simply crazy)
 
The chosen undead has one mind, but SoC is just literally all that souls.
 
Therefir said:
The chosen undead has one mind, but SoC is just literally all that souls.
Click to expand...
the choosen undead is the one from where the countries of soul come

and the soul would still be giving it internal strugle by giving it contradictory ... erm... wills? commands? whatever they do to make it fight
 
The chosen undead is just the one who carry that souls, he is nothing like SoC.

And that would not affect anything because 2 countries >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a city.
 
Therefir said:
The chosen undead is just the one who carry that souls, he is nothing like SoC.
And that would not affect anything because 2 countries >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a city.
Click to expand...
but he absorbed them. if youz wihsh to give it the two countries you have tocount it

2 countries of undead barely able to think, yesm however, the main ones that controll it would be also getting corrupeted, and those would affect it quieta lot
 
Also, show me when the Hunter mind haxed a ghost.
 
Artorias has been driven insane by Magnus, but Chosen undead is not affected.
 
Therefir said:
Artorias has been driven insane by Magnus, but Chosen undead is not affected.
Click to expand...
artorias has been under its effects for an unknown amount of time, the choosen undead only during fights
 
its mind hax that drives it insane (to death), its on his page that it can affect ghosts

The hunter can harm ghosts but not drive them insane.
 
Therefir said:
The hunter can harm ghosts but not drive them insane.
Click to expand...
gonna respond right away but wouldent this chage as well?: (Great Ones and Kin are completely invisible to those lacking Insight, or knowledge of their existence)
 
"The demented hunter weapon brandished by Brador, the Healing Church assassin. The Bloodletter assumes its true and terrifying form after it draws upon blood from the inner reaches of one's body and soul.
 
If Verse Equalization is a thing (ugh) then invisibility won't be a problem at all. Soul of Cinder can detect the Ashen One when he is invisible. So invisibility is a moot point.

Soul of Cinder cannot be Rapport'd (mind controlled). Mind manipulation was unlikely to work on SoC anyways, as an amalgamation of Souls, but it doesn't work anyways. It didn't work on Solaire or Gwyn, either, so it is established that most Lords of Cinder cannot be Rapport'd (I don't believe it works on Aldrich, Yhorm, the Abyss Watchers, or Lothric, either. Unsure on Vendrick if we're counting his temporary soul towards the Lord of Cinder count.)
 
Mr. Bambu said:
.
Soul of Cinder cannot be Rapport'd (mind controlled). Mind manipulation was unlikely to work on SoC anyways, as an amalgamation of Souls, but it doesn't work anyways. It didn't work on Solaire or Gwyn, either, so it is established that most Lords of Cinder cannot be Rapport'd (I don't believe it works on Aldrich, Yhorm, the Abyss Watchers, or Lothric, either. Unsure on Vendrick if we're counting his temporary soul towards the Lord of Cinder count.)
Click to expand...
but shes able to mind manipulate the hunter, who also no sells mind manipulation from others and was still reduced to being unable to fight indeterminatly.
 
Hunter can be frenzied. So... you're wrong. Not much else to say about that.


In no scenario has the SoC been Mind Manipulated. The Hunter HAS and DOES get Mind Manipulated. End of story.
 
Mr. Bambu said:
Hunter can be frenzied. So... you're wrong. Not much else to say about that.

In no scenario has the SoC been Mind Manipulated. The Hunter HAS and DOES get Mind Manipulated. End of story.
Click to expand...
but he still resisted city wide mindscrews, peapole being able to mind hax him is more of a plus for those characters


he also reasistes mind manipulation, so youre saying that if he resist mind manipulation to a degree , but fails when faced with stronger, he has no resistence?
 
No. I literally never said that, you are just putting that into my mouth.

Hunter is frenziable. He has Resistance, not Invulnerability to, Mind Manip.

Soul of Cinder is unable to be Charmed. He is Invulnerable to that Mind Manip.

Tell me where I said what you are trying to get me to say?
 
Mr. Bambu said:
No. I literally never said that, you are just putting that into my mouth.
Hunter is frenziable. He has Resistance, not Invulnerability to, Mind Manip.

Soul of Cinder is unable to be Charmed. He is Invulnerable to that Mind Manip.

Tell me where I said what you are trying to get me to say?
Click to expand...
no character has immunity,, i said he no seld the great ones mind manipulation

yes, to THAT,

" The Hunter HAS and DOES get Mind Manipulated. End of story. " i assumed that you were saying that hes resictance is nonexictent, i was wrong at that, as you thought that i said that hunter is immune to mind manipulation, which i didnt, and if i did i miswrote it


the hunter has better hax resisting feats than the charming has shown, and it wasent enough to keep his mind safe, or is there a feat that makes the charming capable of driving towns of peapole infected with the blood that gives them some degree of resictence?
 
According to the people running the wiki, Insight is game mechanics. Which is wrong, but hey. This is what we're working with, I guess.
 
Mr. Bambu said:
According to the people running the wiki, Insight is game mechanics. Which is wrong, but hey. This is what we're working with, I guess.
Click to expand...
and the hunter still has resictence to town level insanity inducing
 
That's fine. SoC is established as two countries worth of people, be they mindless hollows or other creatures. (Two countries are Drangleic and Lordran, although it would likely contain others). It is immune to mind control mechanics in-game, and thanks to verse equalization, which is a bad implementation overall but whatever, this means the SoC is immune to mind manip.
 
Are the countries really that big though? I reckon Yharnam, despite being just a city, is of similar size.
 
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