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A Wild Last Boss Appeared Discussion Thread

Alovenus failed to properly isekai everyone, gave them cheat abilities without explaining and that don't work as intended. I'm sorry, they're not coming back
 
This I am thinking would upgrade the Earth Ouroboros' AP, and possibly Leon's durability. Not sure what else, but it would be star level definitely (probably). The scan used rn says planets, but the one I post is from the LN so useable
 
I am 60% sure it's a mistranslation.

Get the raws and see if it says Hoshi, which can mean planet or star.
 
Well this is the raw, tried a few different translation methods and it came up as stars for them. I don't see Hoshi, but also need to see the plural for stars so I'll look into it more. While I think stars there was intentional, that would probably lead to some changes in the scaling huh (Edit: So someone else showed me the symbol. I'm not sure how to take it given the context, since it could mean both and they just translated it to stars there. Especially given the maximum damage restriction, and how Leon wasn't completely depleted of his HP because of that I think. So maybe it's better to just leave it alone. Given an ouroboros probably could do the star fear but)

Also did you see the other cosmology blog being worked on
 
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So thought about it, we know basically alovenus views the world as fiction. But has an anti-feat of ruphas and co absorbing her mana to reach the white realm. Assuming that's because they didn't have aid to reach that power from a being of similar power, probably not much we can do about that R>F anti feat

Could still probably reach a higher tier though
 
Enter_Bluey said:
So thought about it, we know basically alovenus views the world as fiction. But has an anti-feat of ruphas and co absorbing her mana to reach the white realm. Assuming that's because they didn't have aid to reach that power from a being of similar power, probably not much we can do about that R>F anti feat

Could still probably reach a higher tier though
Click to expand...
I hope that the new standards are a little looser.
 
Probably would be easier with old standards through infinity statements. 1-A+ at least, could be argued for high 1A probably even. Just ofc messing with awlba tier used to be like activating witch hunts loool

With new standards though, a few things need to be decided. One, if there's anyway to show them using the mana to reach a higher realm isn't an anti-feat to her R>F the universe.

Or showing a setting somehow qualifies

Or just prove the white realm is 1A by being beyond all the stuff said before. In this case 1A+ would be harder I think
 
If anyone still follows this thread, no I haven't forgotten it, I have started a very slow read through of the LN, slow cause I am preoccupied with life, and Re Zero.

Maybe by the time I get through everything, the new system will be in place, who knows.
 
Thats great to see, I definitely think the system will be in place by then. The addition of the side stories at the end of each volume are pretty nice
 
Given that Awlba does not fall under any of the disqualifiers listed in the R>F section, and considering how the tiering system operates above baseline 1A, including the layers and H1A, where X is 1A and Y is H1A, X views Y in the same way X views the rest of the tiering system. In the context of Awlba, this applies to the rest of creation in Awlba.

It is evident that both Alovenus and Ruphas anchor themselves in the reality of the higher being who views them as fiction. Their abilities allow them to do so, with Alovenus' ability being utilized by both to transcend the limits and characteristics imposed on them.

"High 1-A: High Outerverse level​

Characters or objects who transcend 1-A characters in the same vein that 1-A characters transcend the rest of the system. That is to say: If there is a hierarchy of 1-A layers, each of which operates within the same framework, with the same "algorithm" dictating the difference between them, a High 1-A character would transcend the framework entirely, and instead operate on a different, higher hierarchy, governed by another, likewise higher algorithm. In other words, whereas 1-A is a qualitative superiority, High 1-A represents a "meta"-qualitative superiority.

Similarly to 1-A, this tier can be generalized to higher levels of existence. Just as 1-A encompasses qualitative hierarchies, so too can there be meta-qualitative hierarchies. In addition, there can also be "meta"-meta-qualitative superiorities, and so forth, endlessly."

It is not merely that they are transcending within the same framework of reference in each setting, but rather that a fresh new framework (hierarchy) is arbitrarily created on a whim. The difference between the settings should work as follows.

The reason I believe this could be High 1-A is because, H1A in this case would transcend the quality defining a hierarchy or potential hierarchy of qualitative layers (X in this case would be finite stats in comparison to Y including anything X does beyond that, as all of it would be viewed as equal to 1 regardless), just as 1-A transcends the qualities defining all conceivable dimensional spaces below the Final Point (Again finite stats in comparison to their 1A existence).

As shown within the series, you can do whatever you want, however you want, to gain more power and try to challenge your author (God), but to no avail. They are fundamentally different from your existence, and you would never be able to reach their relative position in the cosmology.
 
Well the issue with high 1A I would say is how R>F works here. So let's say Ruphas and the others ascend to 1A. Now just like Alovenus who ran the script, they can see the world as a game or setting to manipulate. Their stats would be pointless as numbers and levels don't matter anymore. And really reaching the level of God gives them that same viewpoint. But to them Alovenus's stats are also pointless to measure. She also placed them in the setting, becoming an author diety who the sees characters as fiction, just like the others now see creation. But this would be a layer I think, and not high 1A. Unless you're saying a next setting would involve a whole hierarchy like 1A does to creation. But this time it should be entire R>F layers instead, so it may just be each setting is like a layer. Cause they would view the lower 1A as fiction anyway. Or are you saying while infinity is 1, each number after is a higher setting till you get to the Alovenus.

The other thing is them reaching such levels via Reactive Evolution to each other, and believing they are stronger making them so. It's basically them creating their own R>F hierarchy as well. Reaching a R>F difference above you on your own probably counts as a disqualifier. Even if it's from their beliefs
 
Enter_Bluey said:
Unless you're saying a next setting would involve a whole hierarchy like 1A does to creation. But this time it should be entire R>F layers instead, so it may just be each setting is like a layer. Cause they would view the lower 1A as fiction anyway. Or are you saying while infinity is 1, each number after is a higher setting till you get to alovenus
Click to expand...
The former. Due to their nature, perspective, and relative positions in the cosmology, each setting has higher levels beyond "1." However, even those higher levels amount to nothing, as everything, regardless of its height, is viewed as equal to 1. Before Ruphas fully understood how everything worked and realized she could utilize the setting, Alovenus explained how her powers function and what gods can do in relation to each other. Alovenus created "Supermassive" universes that could contain her existence to demonstrate a point, as her mere presence would destroy all reality below this final point. Her existence prevents her from entering trivial worlds, similar to how we cannot jump into fiction. These universes can theoretically be layered infinitely (The difference between each "Universe" here could be that of 1A difference due to them essentially being beyond and bigger than the concept of size and space in regards to the lower and smaller "universe" tho idk if this is usable just yet.), but they still mean nothing in relation to Alovenus' existence (as all of it is still finite. It wasn't until Ruphas established her setting that she surpassed all levels between her and Alovenus, including the higher worlds Alovenus had created. At that point, Ruphas completely and utterly surpassed the setting Alovenus made.

And honestly the latter could also make sense somewhat in the context of the cosmology. One reason would be when Ruphas went ham:

"You may be strong, but I'm stronger!"

As she spoke, Lufas's power soared, surpassing the setting that Alovenus had laid down.

Supergiant universe? Who the hell cares. Infinite stats? That doesn't matter. You can overwrite anything? So what? "I am stronger than all of that." This simple line will counter everything.

Oddly enough, Alovenus was right. At this level, the concept of strength no longer exists. Concepts, providence, laws, and limits, all of these are decided by gods, so it follows that none of them exist in their dominion. We would have had to create them on our own.

What I have to do is paint over this pure-white canvas of a space and insist that I'm right. Alovenus could do it, so we can do it too! We came from the world that Alovenus made, after all, so normal laws don't apply to us! Now that I think about it, that's probably why the laws of physics didn't apply to us at all. Of course we would be able to do things that would normally be unthinkable. We inherited Alovenus's power"

"Lufas's stats instantly switched to display infinity signs in every slot, and then those infinity signs started multiplying endlessly.

At this rate, simple physical force would solve everything. Lufas's existence itself caused the supergiant universe currently around them to shatter into particles and disappear."

Here Ruphas' infinite stats multiplied endlessly with infinity. All of this was possible because she spoke a single line and imagined her being the strongest (Thus her infinity jumped from her plane of existence up to Alovenus'). From what I remember reading in the light novel, Ruphas only reached the level of Alovenus at that point of their fight after this transformation. Which allowed her to break Alovenus's barrier and in turn inflict damage to her. This would indicate that Ruphas reached Alovenus's specific level (at that point) by surpassing her own base infinite stats, endlessly multiplying them with infinity, where each higher multiplication was beyond the previous layer.

Here's the kicker, Alovenus then set/laid a new setting, making herself the strongest again and invalidating everything Ruphas had done, viewing all of it as equal to 1, or fiction. After this, they both continued to insist that the other's infinity was equal to 1 and transcending each other etc.

"Or are you saying while infinity is 1, each number after is a higher setting till you get to alovenus"

So yes in a sense this could be the case given the text above as Ruphas set her stats as infinite (as her stats weren't infinite beforehand in comparison to Alovenus) and multipled it with another infinity beyond it endlessly and that same hierarchy in itself got dismantled by 1 setting laid by Alovenus afterwards.
 
Zeona201 said:
The former. Due to their nature, perspective, and relative positions in the cosmology, each setting has higher levels beyond "1." However, even those higher levels amount to nothing, as everything, regardless of its height, is viewed as equal to 1. Before Ruphas fully understood how everything worked and realized she could utilize the setting, Alovenus explained how her powers function and what gods can do in relation to each other. Alovenus created "Supermassive" universes that could contain her existence to demonstrate a point, as her mere presence would destroy all reality below this final point. Her existence prevents her from entering trivial worlds, similar to how we cannot jump into fiction. These universes can theoretically be layered infinitely (The difference between each "Universe" here could be that of 1A difference due to them essentially being beyond and bigger than the concept of size and space in regards to the lower and smaller "universe" tho idk if this is usable just yet.), but they still mean nothing in relation to Alovenus' existence (as all of it is still finite. It wasn't until Ruphas established her setting that she surpassed all levels between her and Alovenus, including the higher worlds Alovenus had created. At that point, Ruphas completely and utterly surpassed the setting Alovenus made.

And honestly the latter could also make sense somewhat in the context of the cosmology. One reason would be when Ruphas went ham:

"You may be strong, but I'm stronger!"

As she spoke, Lufas's power soared, surpassing the setting that Alovenus had laid down.

Supergiant universe? Who the hell cares. Infinite stats? That doesn't matter. You can overwrite anything? So what? "I am stronger than all of that." This simple line will counter everything.

Oddly enough, Alovenus was right. At this level, the concept of strength no longer exists. Concepts, providence, laws, and limits, all of these are decided by gods, so it follows that none of them exist in their dominion. We would have had to create them on our own.

What I have to do is paint over this pure-white canvas of a space and insist that I'm right. Alovenus could do it, so we can do it too! We came from the world that Alovenus made, after all, so normal laws don't apply to us! Now that I think about it, that's probably why the laws of physics didn't apply to us at all. Of course we would be able to do things that would normally be unthinkable. We inherited Alovenus's power"

"Lufas's stats instantly switched to display infinity signs in every slot, and then those infinity signs started multiplying endlessly.

At this rate, simple physical force would solve everything. Lufas's existence itself caused the supergiant universe currently around them to shatter into particles and disappear."

Here Ruphas' infinite stats multiplied endlessly with infinity. All of this was possible because she spoke a single line and imagined her being the strongest (Thus her infinity jumped from her plane of existence up to Alovenus'). From what I remember reading in the light novel, Ruphas only reached the level of Alovenus at that point of their fight after this transformation. Which allowed her to break Alovenus's barrier and in turn inflict damage to her. This would indicate that Ruphas reached Alovenus's specific level (at that point) by surpassing her own base infinite stats, endlessly multiplying them with infinity, where each higher multiplication was beyond the previous layer.

Here's the kicker, Alovenus then set/laid a new setting, making herself the strongest again and invalidating everything Ruphas had done, viewing all of it as equal to 1, or fiction. After this, they both continued to insist that the other's infinity was equal to 1 and transcending each other etc.

"Or are you saying while infinity is 1, each number after is a higher setting till you get to alovenus"

So yes in a sense this could be the case given the text above as Ruphas set her stats as infinite (as her stats weren't infinite beforehand in comparison to Alovenus) and multipled it with another infinity beyond it endlessly and that same hierarchy in itself got dismantled by 1 setting laid by Alovenus afterwards.
Click to expand...
In this way, you would be saying Alovenus would actually be high 1A? I can see it, given how to reach her level they also used Alovenus's power to do so. It would be

Creation - Stats and levels, all the dimensions, size and whatever else.

Ruphas and co ascending to Gods - Numbers and levels become meaningless, and pointless. Basically finite compared to what they are now. Alovenus describes settings, containing characters and powerscaling in fiction. The author deity, or God does all this. Alovenus is described as author many times, and created the script for the universe. Once they reach this realm they became God's with the right to be there, and they view creation now similarly. Basically they see the same way as Alovenus now and with the same power. The lower world is also like a setting for them to manipulate

Alovenus - When they reached the end point, her stats were considered pointless to measure and an endless string of 9s across the space. Basically, despite their ascended levels and "stats", she was still superior in the same way. She views them in the setting now as characters, where one can become stronger than the next, and get stronger than that infinitely but it's pointless. This is one setting, and her level of infinite in existence is more than something "normally infinite" in a setting. Then, that infinite in a setting is 1, and then 2, 3 and so on are higher settings.

This may be 1A+ I'm not sure about high 1A. Maybe. Two things with this. She still briefly jumps out the universes she created..which are a lot, so I'm not sure if each universe is a setting or not. I mean, they didn't really destroy them after the initial one she created but she also spam creates them many times. To create her own multiverse and beyond. It could be she is creating universes on her level though specifically at that point since they became specs again.

The other thing is after reaching Alovenus, the two continue to layer their settings in similar R>F differences if that is used. And it comes back to the same issue really of if that stops settings from being R>F if they're reaching these levels on their own. Like, through Alovenus's power they reach her, and then Ruphas is able to match her. After that though, well..
 
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Enter_Bluey said:
This may be 1A+ I'm not sure about high 1A. Maybe. Two things with this. She still briefly jumps out the universes she created..which are a lot, so I'm not sure if each universe is a setting or not. I mean, they didn't really destroy them after the initial one she created but she also spam creates them many times. To create her own multiverse and beyond. It could be she is creating universes on her level though specifically at that point since they became specs again.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I believe that between Alovenus and Ruphas and Co, when they entered the Final Point, there was such a huge difference that you could insert higher planes/universes at any point in time, essentially eternally ascending but not being able to reach Alovenus for reasons we discussed earlier. Given how Ruphas had to first switch her infinite stats (which were finite in comparison to Alovenus beforehand) and set them to "higher infinity", where the infinity itself started to multiply, I believe Ruphas was actually establishing as many settings as there were multiplications of infinity. Maybe it wasn't one big setting where she instantly jumped from her plane of existence, but rather normal settings that adjusted in regards to their opponent, and when all of it came together, it looked like one big encompassing setting she jumped with.

I believe the "Supermassive/Supergiant" universes are settings/temporary creations within the plane of existence she was viewing as fiction, containing Ruphas and Co, this fits in line with this statement:

"There is no limit to the strength that people can imagine," said Alovenus. "For example, take two different stories, and compare the strength of their two main characters. The character from the first story is strong enough to destroy the universe, but the character from the second story says that a universe is just a small cell in a part of an even larger megaverse."

As Alovenus spoke, the universe started to shrink. It got smaller and smaller, and eventually, it was as small as it could get, small enough for Lufas and the other two to see the entirety of the universe at once. They were being shown that the universe was but a microcosm of something larger. Beyond that, there was an even larger space.

Unwilling to listen to the Goddess's leisurely lecture, Lufas threw out an attack overlaid with Scorpius's skill, a poison that would never disappear, while Orm used his breath attack. However, the Goddess didn't stop.

"But this is where a third story comes in, and they claim that even the second story's universe is but a small cell of an even bigger one."

Once again, the universe shrunk. Thus, she once again showed them the sheer scale of things, where two nested universes were once again nested in a larger one."

The "universes" here only started to shrink once Alovenus asserted (laid a setting, or essentially changed the script) that there is a bigger "space" beyond them. This essentially means that if God X were to create a multiverse of his own and view all of it as fiction, no matter how complex and large it is, Y would view all of it as a small "cell/universe" within an even greater "universe" or "multiverse." The universes created here could be tied to the relative position of a god within a cosmology. But we know these bigger and more complex universes didn't mean anything to Alovenus, no matter the number of layers.


Enter_Bluey said:
The other thing is after reaching Alovenus, the two continue to layer their settings in similar R>F differences if that is used. And it comes back to the same issue really of if that stops settings from being R>F if they're reaching these levels on their own. Like, through Alovenus's power they reach her, and then Ruphas is able to match her. After that though, well
Click to expand...
I don't really understand the problem with them being able to one-up each other and use each other as stepping stones to reach higher heights. Are you saying you cannot reach a higher r>f on your own? And what exactly does that even mean? I went through the majority of the tiering system and their r>f section as well as their FAQ section, but I couldn't find anything that would invalidate what Ruphas and Alovenus are doing, as their ability allow them to anchor themselves in a higher plane of existence in regards to everything else and become the author/script writer/God(R>F). They essentially take on a new position in the cosmology where they become more fundamentally real than the rest, as all things in it would have no real difference between each other in the eyes of X in this case.

I also believe that the Alovenus who fought Ruphas and her companions in the beginning was an avatar or aspect of the Alovenus that Ruphas later rose up to and punched, as she says something along the lines of "You rose up to my level." Alovenus being the same entity before Ruphas established that specific setting would introduce a problem, as that would mean Alovenus is within the world of Ruphas and Co and would thus fall under this specific disqualifier listed:

"The author character completely live in the fictional medium themselves. For example the author character might have a book that contains the world, but the author themselves are also a character in it and don't exist outside it any more than other characters of that world."

But we know that's not really how the R>F works in Awlba. If we look back at the difference between Alovenus and the "Physical Multiverse" below the Final Point, Alovenus' existence was so fundamentally different from everything else that she viewed everything as a video game. In this game, the fictional characters could try to harm you, while they might damage your avatar within the game, you, behind the screen, would remain unaffected and unchanged. And it logically follows that the stats between Alovenus and Ruphas at that point in time was akin to the difference between the Final Point and rest of creation.

But since this is the Dominion of the gods, they can make paradoxes appear normal as they bend and twist the rules they establish, given that those rules don't exist by default there. In a sense, you could say Alovenus was on the same plane of existence as Ruphas in that instance, but made that possible through her ability to bend the laws/rules/Providence, or by using an avatar. Another thing to mention is when Alovenus asks what Ruphas and Co will do next:

"Now, what will you do next?" she continued. "Use some sort of instant death power where you just have to look at the target? Use an ability to steal your opponent's powers? Make use of some sort of special attribute that always makes you stronger than your opponent? Turn back time altogether and make it so this never happened? Use some amazing power to go to a higher world in order to rip up your opponent's settings? Activate something that will nullify all abilities? Erect an invincible barrier that will reflect any and every attack at twice the strength? Manipulate the very concept of victory in order to make yourself always win,

ignoring everything else? Cheat and implant the concept of defeat onto your opponent so that they will always lose? Make use of a pure and simple power that will pierce through everything to always kill the target? I don't care what you do. Please, come at me until you're satisfied. None of it will do anything, anyway."

Alovenus declared that all forms of resistance were futile as she scornfully laughed."

This statement "Use some amazing power to go to a higher world in order to rip up your opponent's settings?"

And this "Please, come at me until you're satisfied. None of it will do anything, anyway."

They are essentially saying that Ruphas and Co could, at any point in time, ascend to a higher world and basically do anything in their power, but none of it would affect Alovenus. This would indicate that merely stacking and jumping to higher worlds wouldn't amount to anything, as we previously went over this. This further strengthens the fact that this must be an aspect of Alovenus in that specific plane of existence, since even ascending to a higher world, where one could potentially rip apart and destroy/rewrite someone's script, wouldn't affect the current level of Alovenus.
 
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Enter_Bluey said:
In this way, you would be saying Alovenus would actually be high 1A? I can see it, given how to reach her level they also used Alovenus's power to do so. It would be

Creation - Stats and levels, all the dimensions, size and whatever else.

Ruphas and co ascending to Gods - Numbers and levels become meaningless, and pointless. Basically finite compared to what they are now. Alovenus describes settings, containing characters and powerscaling in fiction. The author deity, or God does all this. Alovenus is described as author many times, and created the script for the universe. Once they reach this realm they became God's with the right to be there, and they view creation now similarly. Basically they see the same way as Alovenus now and with the same power. The lower world is also like a setting for them to manipulate

Alovenus - When they reached the end point, her stats were considered pointless to measure and an endless string of 9s across the space. Basically, despite their ascended levels and "stats", she was still superior in the same way. She views them in the setting now as characters, where one can become stronger than the next, and get stronger than that infinitely but it's pointless. This is one setting, and her level of infinite in existence is more than something "normally infinite" in a setting. Then, that infinite in a setting is 1, and then 2, 3 and so on are higher settings.

This may be 1A+ I'm not sure about high 1A. Maybe. Two things with this. She still briefly jumps out the universes she created..which are a lot, so I'm not sure if each universe is a setting or not. I mean, they didn't really destroy them after the initial one she created but she also spam creates them many times. To create her own multiverse and beyond. It could be she is creating universes on her level though specifically at that point since they became specs again.

The other thing is after reaching Alovenus, the two continue to layer their settings in similar R>F differences if that is used. And it comes back to the same issue really of if that stops settings from being R>F if they're reaching these levels on their own. Like, through Alovenus's power they reach her, and then Ruphas is able to match her. After that though, well..
Click to expand...
Also, my apologies if my messages are cluttered and hard to follow. I'm new to the tiering system and am still learning how it all works, especially in the forums.
 
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Zeona201 said:
Yeah, I believe that between Alovenus and Ruphas and Co, when they entered the Final Point, there was such a huge difference that you could insert higher planes/universes at any point in time, essentially eternally ascending but not being able to reach Alovenus for reasons we discussed earlier. Given how Ruphas had to first switch her infinite stats (which were finite in comparison to Alovenus beforehand) and set them to "higher infinity", where the infinity itself started to multiply, I believe Ruphas was actually establishing as many settings as there were multiplications of infinity. Maybe it wasn't one big setting where she instantly jumped from her plane of existence, but rather normal settings that adjusted in regards to their opponent, and when all of it came together, it looked like one big encompassing setting she jumped with.

I believe the "Supermassive/Supergiant" universes are settings/temporary creations within the plane of existence she was viewing as fiction, containing Ruphas and Co, this fits in line with this statement:

"There is no limit to the strength that people can imagine," said Alovenus. "For example, take two different stories, and compare the strength of their two main characters. The character from the first story is strong enough to destroy the universe, but the character from the second story says that a universe is just a small cell in a part of an even larger megaverse."

As Alovenus spoke, the universe started to shrink. It got smaller and smaller, and eventually, it was as small as it could get, small enough for Lufas and the other two to see the entirety of the universe at once. They were being shown that the universe was but a microcosm of something larger. Beyond that, there was an even larger space.

Unwilling to listen to the Goddess's leisurely lecture, Lufas threw out an attack overlaid with Scorpius's skill, a poison that would never disappear, while Orm used his breath attack. However, the Goddess didn't stop.

"But this is where a third story comes in, and they claim that even the second story's universe is but a small cell of an even bigger one."

Once again, the universe shrunk. Thus, she once again showed them the sheer scale of things, where two nested universes were once again nested in a larger one."

The "universes" here only started to shrink once Alovenus asserted (laid a setting, or essentially changed the script) that there is a bigger "space" beyond them. This essentially means that if God X were to create a multiverse of his own and view all of it as fiction, no matter how complex and large it is, Y would view all of it as a small "cell/universe" within an even greater "universe" or "multiverse." The universes created here could be tied to the relative position of a god within a cosmology. But we know these bigger and more complex universes didn't mean anything to Alovenus, no matter the number of layers.



I don't really understand the problem with them being able to one-up each other and use each other as stepping stones to reach higher heights. Are you saying you cannot reach a higher r>f on your own? And what exactly does that even mean? I went through the majority of the tiering system and their r>f section as well as their FAQ section, but I couldn't find anything that would invalidate what Ruphas and Alovenus are doing, as their ability allow them to anchor themselves in a higher plane of existence in regards to everything else and become the author/script writer/God(R>F). They essentially take on a new position in the cosmology where they become more fundamentally real than the rest, as all things in it would have no real difference between each other in the eyes of X in this case.

I also believe that the Alovenus who fought Ruphas and her companions in the beginning was an avatar or aspect of the Alovenus that Ruphas later rose up to and punched, as she says something along the lines of "You rose up to my level." Alovenus being the same entity before Ruphas established that specific setting would introduce a problem, as that would mean Alovenus is within the world of Ruphas and Co and would thus fall under this specific disqualifier listed:

"The author character completely live in the fictional medium themselves. For example the author character might have a book that contains the world, but the author themselves are also a character in it and don't exist outside it any more than other characters of that world."

But we know that's not really how the R>F works in Awlba. If we look back at the difference between Alovenus and the "Physical Multiverse" below the Final Point, Alovenus' existence was so fundamentally different from everything else that she viewed everything as a video game. In this game, the fictional characters could try to harm you, while they might damage your avatar within the game, you, behind the screen, would remain unaffected and unchanged. And it logically follows that the stats between Alovenus and Ruphas at that point in time was akin to the difference between the Final Point and rest of creation.

But since this is the Dominion of the gods, they can make paradoxes appear normal as they bend and twist the rules they establish, given that those rules don't exist by default there. In a sense, you could say Alovenus was on the same plane of existence as Ruphas in that instance, but made that possible through her ability to bend the laws/rules/Providence, or by using an avatar. Another thing to mention is when Alovenus asks what Ruphas and Co will do next:

"Now, what will you do next?" she continued. "Use some sort of instant death power where you just have to look at the target? Use an ability to steal your opponent's powers? Make use of some sort of special attribute that always makes you stronger than your opponent? Turn back time altogether and make it so this never happened? Use some amazing power to go to a higher world in order to rip up your opponent's settings? Activate something that will nullify all abilities? Erect an invincible barrier that will reflect any and every attack at twice the strength? Manipulate the very concept of victory in order to make yourself always win,

ignoring everything else? Cheat and implant the concept of defeat onto your opponent so that they will always lose? Make use of a pure and simple power that will pierce through everything to always kill the target? I don't care what you do. Please, come at me until you're satisfied. None of it will do anything, anyway."

Alovenus declared that all forms of resistance were futile as she scornfully laughed."

This statement "Use some amazing power to go to a higher world in order to rip up your opponent's settings?"

And this "Please, come at me until you're satisfied. None of it will do anything, anyway."

They are essentially saying that Ruphas and Co could, at any point in time, ascend to a higher world and basically do anything in their power, but none of it would affect Alovenus. This would indicate that merely stacking and jumping to higher worlds wouldn't amount to anything, as we previously went over this. This further strengthens the fact that this must be an aspect of Alovenus in that specific plane of existence, since even ascending to a higher world, where one could potentially rip apart and destroy/rewrite someone's script, wouldn't affect the current level of Alovenus.
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They became God's just like her, however she also has the power to infinitely ascend to higher settings. So rather than being "avatars", there is just a difference between them in terms of settings and reality. Or one God viewing the lower one the same, since they add a new setting. As for the universes, Alovenus stacked them many times until they fought and ascended past them all. So for supergiant universes, etc, if you are saying that they were temporary creations on the level of God which she used and placed everyone in then yeah I agree. Though at the same time, paradoxes, rules, laws and concepts don't exist by default. Rather paradoxes don't matter anymore, so Alovenus shrinking stuff or placing them in a similar place don't matter too much since size and such are determined by them. If they allow it or will it these things will happen. But if you consider them settings, then yeah I would say many of these were on Alovenus's level until Ruphas shattered one to place her own. Also, establishing multiple settings or making them to reach Alovenus probably is theoretically pretty impressive. Do you think one setting is like viewing a 1A the same way they view creation? Or just Alovenus's. When I think about this part it does make my head hurt a little lol. Let's see Alovenus's setting views the 1A the same way they view creation. So assumedly no amount of power would break the setting without another setting. Then Ruphas breaks through her setting and reaches infinitely multiplied higher settings. Because that's where Alovenus's actually true power represents. Each setting views the setting as lower reality as characters/fiction. The more I think about it, this is probably 1A+ on this site. You are taking a 1A, who is viewed the same way they view a lower setting, by a higher setting. Each setting can basically be controlled by an author deity. Then you have alovenus, which ruphas needed to reach basically "infinite^infinite amount of those settings to actually challenge Alovenus.

"Use some amazing power to go to a higher world in order to rip up your opponent's settings?"

I also view this the same way. Since there's a clear distinction where ascending and gaining strength won't matter even to tear the opponents setting.

The problem with one upping each other or rather the two from what I understand is quantitative jumps, or their infinity jumps. I believe you've explained it well, in which the lower setting character stats are finite, in a same way a 1A God views the lower creation and concepts of size. So a next "'infinite jump" isn't actually may not be an issue. The other problem yeah is reaching another level of r>f without influence from a higher realm somehow. You could maybe make a thread to ask about it, but let's say someone is below 1A and they reach a 1A by REing to them and then reaching a higher real life reality on their own. That's I think an anti-feat. 1A layers then work the same way. These two basically use RE to reach higher and then layer their own setting and declare whatever. They do anchor themselves, it matters how they get there though. Since this whole tiering system change just happened maybe you could make a question thread about it
 
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Then again that avatar thing isnt even like unreasonable cause first she's hit in her avatar form(Dina) before they ascend, her hp is ridiculous for their view point. Then again treated the same way when they "hit her again" afterward. Though she is greatly toying with them by then so obviously nothing happens

And the settings and universes thing can be universes representing settings and multiple settings just build up and utilized at this point, thrown around and exploded whatnot.
 
That infinity stuff alone can be argued maybe, but they would also raise themselves to higher levels into 1A with their own power, without existing stuff or a higher being. So that's 1 solid thing that wouldnt work out. Which is the bigger issue, so highly likely no chance, unless that rule changes for some reason or I misunderstood that part.
 
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Yea, a non 1-A becoming 1-A with their own power is an anti-feat for them being 1-A, same thing applies with 1-A and above. So Ruphas and co can't scale higher.

BTW I will be making a CRT once I finished reading the LN. There are some stuff to change, I also will add to the Cosmology Blog, as there are so many statements which equate Alovenus to being the author, outside the game board etc etc.
 
Celestial_Pegasus said:
Yea, a non 1-A becoming 1-A with their own power is an anti-feat for them being 1-A, same thing applies with 1-A and above. So Ruphas and co can't scale higher.

BTW I will be making a CRT once I finished reading the LN. There are some stuff to change, I also will add to the Cosmology Blog, as there are so many statements which equate Alovenus to being the author, outside the game board etc etc.
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Even the manga I'm pretty sure they call her it and show her hovering over a book. Then you have her being called the author God, and of course third rate author. Then the "game like world" and other things, moving her pieces and stuff like that. Many references to her viewing the world that way. Like this one. And what else would be changed? 🤔 I guess one thing I remembered is their concept stuff. Pretty sure it's all 3 creation, destruction, and alteration. Destroying stuff like attack/defense, bestowing concepts onto each other or themselves, removing them. Giving yourself victory itself to just win regardless of how. Very hax spammy

And yeah will power going against them with that one. Without the rule they would be eating maybe
 
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Wasn't even focused on their concept stuff cause I haven't reach there yet (still at vol 6).

Off the top of my head though, I think lvl 1500 will be like Solar System lvl with full powered arcane magic, which makes lvl 3000 probably full on Solar System level.

Speed might changed as well, maybe, lvl 1000 should be relativistic, lvl 1500 would have varying degrees of speed, relativistic+ combat speed, MFTL reaction speed, and MFTL+ attack speed.

Those are just some of my current thoughts, nothing is really definitive until I finish reading. And think about things in depth.
 
Celestial_Pegasus said:
Wasn't even focused on their concept stuff cause I haven't reach there yet (still at vol 6).

Off the top of my head though, I think lvl 1500 will be like Solar System lvl with full powered arcane magic, which makes lvl 3000 probably full on Solar System level.

Speed might changed as well, maybe, lvl 1000 should be relativistic, lvl 1500 would have varying degrees of speed, relativistic+ combat speed, MFTL reaction speed, and MFTL+ attack speed.

Those are just some of my current thoughts, nothing is really definitive until I finish reading. And think about things in depth.
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Is that from the solar flare + Golden bow? Which was had more gravity and pressure that any real stars couldn't compete? I also think this should be an upgrade. That thing turned into a supernova last I remember as well. I wasn't sure what exact tier that would be, but something like scaling above the most powerful star/supernova or something like that. I completely forgot higher levels would also scale above that

I am assuming the MFTL stuff comes from the fight with Benetnash. Though I think both can just be merged into mftl combat speed probably, relativistic normally. Since they're both attacking and reacting anyway. Well depends what the mftl+ attack speed is. Cause last time I looked it chalked it up to mftl for both
 
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Yea solar flare + golden bow probably results in solar system level based on this.

I am a little skeptical of MFTL combat speed, due to the multiple near light speed statements lvl 1500 Benet has.

MFTL+ comes from solar flare + golden bow, I am just assuming it's that high, since it reached a distant star system after all.
 
Oh that page is a thing I didn't know was a thing. Yeah judging by what it says a quark nova(?) and Ruphas's attack reached a distant star system and was more powerful than any star. Then functioned like the death of a star afterward, so the supernova should be more powerful too.

For the combat speed, I guess for higher levels it's more solid. I forgot if that was Ruphas toying with her a little or not? Afterward though, she is not holding back as much for benetnash, which means that arrow she threw back was more of a flex. Then Benet was fighting with her. I mean it was still a wash but she did "hold her own" in a sense of not getting immediately blitzed in every way. Overpowered though for sure. So assuming they kept fighting the same way after that little display of power Ruphas showed, I think it could be viable. Mayhaps, and it does take place after those lightspeed statements.
 
Benet is not a normal lvl 1500, she imo clearly grew more powerful than a normal one is capable of, at first couldn't even scratch Ruphas, and then we get multiple statements about her getting stronger, exceeding her limits etc. You could factor in Ruphas weakness towards her friends into it, but idk how much weight that holds.

Even after all that Benet was still said to be near lightspeed from memory, hence my skepticism.

But anyway lvl 1500 Benet vs Ruphas could cause some problems, we also imo see lvl 1500 Benet could still be harmed by the resurrected hereos, who imo are stronger than normal lvl 1000's, but it's not a big gap, when you factor in things like Leon and the 12 stars fights.

I don't really any conclusions drawn up, as I have to re-look at things when I am done. And I am also trying to re-read a VN at the same time, so not making much progress.
 
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