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A tightening of our editing restrictions?

@Ant

I also want to point out that the 2-week wall also does absolutely nothing to stop chat spammers and people from trolling on threads or people's message walls.

We have malicious trolls on this site just like any other community site. Giving into their hate is only letting them win at this rate, because as Spino said, it really won't stop the dedicated trolls who are producing dozens of accounts just to annoy us. It might slow them down, sure, but it won't stop them.
 
Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
Speaking of content moderators, didn't like 4 or 5 users got nominated? None of them got promoted.
Click to expand...
Boi you haven't seen how long Staff promos take lol. My promo to Admin was in a promotion round that took two months. Give it time.
 
@Spino

Well, I am admittedly extremely patient. I can wait for a few years trying to get revisions that improve the reliability of our profiles.
 
I think that even before we truly consider this and put it into action we should give this situation time. It has only been a few days, so to think that it won't let up any time soon and implement such drastic measures is an overreaction.

I also think that 100 forum posts and 15 days is too long. I agree with what Matt and Reppu have to say, but I am fine with a maximum of 5 days to wait for editing. However, even that will often be alienating, I feel. Putting a post limit will only make things worse, even if it will keep out sockpuppets. The more restrictions we put up, the more closed off this community will become. The reason why we have such high and rising rankings that you're so proud of, Ant, is because it's easy to join and contribute to this community, as opposed to more private ones such as OBD.

A lot of people already see this wiki as elitist, and while we'll always have to deal with such criticisms, there's no need to add fuel to that fire.
 
As Matthew said, there is no army waiting to tear apart this wiki. It's just a few dedicated trolls. And those dedicated trolls are like, really dedicated.

You said it yourself, Antvasima. One troll spent 3.5 years just to discredit us. Another spent 7 months uploading **** videos to discredit you. Unless you are planning to make a 3.5 year-wall, you really won't stop them.
 
In any case, I and Ryukama both think that the current 4 day time limit should be included for accessing the wiki chat, as it otherwise get flooded with instant troll accounts.
 
I disagree. This is factually incorrect, and never happens outside of rare occasions. I speak as someone who actually uses the chat.

And do you know how you do wil chat trolls? You ban them. IT takes 5 seconds.

The chat not being locked is the only reason new users even stay here I think.
 
100 edits is a bit too much. Why can't we just apply our current 4 day rule to the chat for starters.
 
I agree that we are more popular than the OBD because we have collectively put far more time and effort into the quality of our content.
 
It's not that. Let's not start a quality-measuring contest.

It's just that we are much larger and active, because we are a lot more visible and welcoming.

Taking that away would undermine it completely.
 
"because we have collectively put far more time and effort into the quality of our content."

The only reason such things are even theoretically possible is because we are a larger community with a greater influx of new blood and new users, not a website that you can't join unless invited.
 
Well, I think that a 4 day time limit for the chat seems harmless, and would deter people who set up 65 troll accounts at once, as happened a few days ago.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
I disagree. This is factually incorrect, and never happens outside of rare occasions. I speak as someone who actually uses the chat.

And do you know how you do wil chat trolls? You ban them. IT takes 5 seconds.

The chat not being locked is the only reason new users even stay here I think.
Click to expand...
Just being there a couple days I have banned dozens. It took me less than 10 minutes collectively. It takes more time than that to take a shower and get ready in the morning, or, in Wiki terms, make a quality edit to 1 page or 2.
 
Antvasima said:
Well, I think that a 4 day time limit for the chat seems harmless, and would deter people who set up 65 troll accounts at once, as happened a few days ago.
Click to expand...
I disagree.

Ant, you literally never use Chat. You cannot speak for how things are in something you are not a part of.

Said troll didn't even join the chat once.
 
@Matthew

Agreed. I do not use the chat, just as you do not monitor edits, so my perspective of this is limited, just as yours is regarding my type of workload, but people kept reporting him for trolling the chat in the rule-violation thread.
 
I am still an Administrator. And someone who's been here for 2.5 years. And who has over 40,000 edits. My input is not limited. My perspective is that of a long-time user and staff who's seen this wiki evolve and change through its best and its worse.

Don't immediately dismiss my thoughts because I focus on a different areas. And I do monitor edits some. It's not nearly as bad as you make it out to be. Much like the rest of the wiki, you exaggerate it.
 
I think it is important to be patient and wait before reacting to this situation in such a drastic manner, nor do I think that drastic measures are even necessary. It is perfectly possible for our staff, as a group, to deal with and quash threats as they arise without making an already needlessly intimidating and harsh wiki even more alienating.

If anything, just up to 5 days before you're allowed to edit pages, but page vandalism isn't really the greatest threat to our wiki. It can be fixed with a click and prevented with another. This is not something you have to burden yourself, Ant, as the rest of the staff is not running blind and allowing these things to pass by.
 
I have responded to the PM, but I remember the vandalism being much worse than currently back before the 4 day edit limit.
 
That was mostly because at the time, Misaka Mikoto hadn't gone over her obssessive grudge against both myself and VBW as a whole, and did everything in her free time to make things worse.

Just like Jonathan used to absolutely crazy for a time, and has now mostly died down.

Trolls rise and fall in quantity and intensity with time, and no restriction will change that.
 
It wasn't just Misaka. There were lots of casual vandals popping up, and I simply do not have the available time and energy available to potentially revert over a hundred edits every day on top of my regular workload.
 
Antvasima said:
It wasn't just Misaka. There were lots of causal vandals popping up, and I simply do not have the available time and energy available to potentially revert over a hundred edits every day on top of my regular workload.
Click to expand...
You are not the only person monitoring edits. I tend to focus my efforts on watching edits and working on pages here, and I have never seen such a volume of vandals. Vandalism rarely goes unnoticed here even when you and I are not around throughout the day, so to expect that you alone will have to revert hundreds of edits is completely unrealistic because it is unlikely that that will happen in the first place and extremely unlikely that every other active and hard-working staff member will do nothing. It's almost insulting.
 
Look, I have received threats of troll raids against the wiki, and I have also been informed that the person who uploaded a few thousand **** videos, and later started spamming me, Reppuzan, Ryukama, ProfessorKukui4Life, Kepekley23, and others with nonsense and requests for pornography, had extremely different IP address ranges for his various accounts, so a number of different people may have been involved.

I think that it would be extremely bad idea to let go of our current editing restriction, as I am not prepared to deal with the resulting fallout.
 
@Promestein

I meant no offense, and know that you are one of the few other staff members who help out with monitoring edits, which is extremely appreciated.

However, I still recall the vandalism situation being considerably worse before the 4 day editing limit, and think that it would drastically worsen currently, given the sheer amount of accounts that are constantly signed up.
 
No one is even suggesting to let go of the current editing restrictions, just that making them harsher is unreasonable. And I understand that, and that's an issue, but you are not going to deal with this alone, so to treat this as something that you need to burden and confront on your own is inaccurate, and honestly arrogant and insulting to your staff, who have all put in a lot of work - much, much more than is reasonable to spend on such an inane concept as versus debating - to make sure that this wiki remains stable.

I'm sorry that the people we deal with are so single-minded and stubborn, but closing our wiki off will only make things worse for regular users, and it won't change anything for those who are already devoted to making things worse for us. All the reasons you have listed make it clear that they won't stop if we put a 15-day edit restriction, or a 100 post restriction. Honestly, they'd probably just make more and more accounts and spam threads instead. All we have to do is continue to calmly and rationally deal with them as they arise instead of gut our own wiki in misguided and ineffective attempts to stop them.

I am not one of the few staff members who monitor edits. I pay attention and I see a lot of other staff members, and regular users, consistently reverting and reporting vandalism, often faster than I can.
 
Anyway, it seems like Bert Hall's suggestion has been rejected.
 
I'd agree with you, Ant, if all the vandals today went untouched and unbanned. But they were caught and banned quickly. More vandals is little issue.

Especially when mass block scripts exist that allow you to block many users at once.
 
@Promestein

Okay. Noted, and my apologies to the staff and our other members if I brought offense. I suppose that I have mainly taken into account that my edit-monitoring work has not been significantly lessened by the new patrolling script.

I am admittedly an obsessive perfectionist, who wants things to constantly be run as efficiently as possible, but Matthew has informed me that this can be very annoying for others to deal with.

I am not sure what I can do about it though, as this is the way that I fundamentally work, and I do not know any other way to deal with and organise things.
 
I don't know what to tell you when it comes to that, Ant. Self-reflection and improvement are both hard, especially in areas such as this, and I say that as someone who struggles with many issues that are similar to your own, given that I also have OCD and have wasted days of my life agonizing over unimportant specifics. A good first step is to trust those around you to help and work things out with or without your own involvement.
 
Yes, I know that you have roughly the same issues that I have, but you seem to have them better under control.
 
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