A Nigh-Unstoppable Force vs A Nigh-Immovable Object - Giorno Giovanna vs Gharnef

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Never thought I'd do JJBA vs FE....Never thought I'd do GER vs FE either...especially because nobody is acausal...

But what about Invulnerability?

Have I gone mad?

No restrictions, Giorno starts with Gold Experience Requiem, Gharnef starts out with Imhullu...

Giorno Giovanna- 0

Gharnef - 0

Inconclusive - 7

 

[LuckyCharmingStar]

Gharnef haxstomps

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

How? He's unable to act under GER's causality manipulation

 

[LuckyCharmingStar]

thats as low 2-C

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

The Low 2-C is because his Causality Manipulation was able to negate a universal time-skip, it's not really even actual AP

 

[Blahblah9755]

Giorno stomps, Gharnef can't do anything unless he's shown immunity to causality manipulation and gets trapped in a death loop that stops him from being transferred to Darksphere.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Giorno needs to kill Gharnef to do that

 

[ALRF]

Can't Giorno Negate The Immortality caused by Imhullu? if not then no one really wins as Giorno will just attack him with no effect and Gharnef actions will all be set to 0.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Well, the cause of the invulnerability isn't from an action against Giorno, and said action was already done (With the creation of Imhullu), and the invulnerability from Imhullu is passive, I think, he isn't really shown to do anything to activate it, the attacks just don't do anything to him

 

[Blahblah9755]

Oh, so imhullu grants his invulnerability even before his body dies? I guess that would make this inconclusive then,

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Yes, as it's forged from the Darksphere (which by itself made Hardin invulnerable to anyone without the Lightsphere) the only thing in-universe able to defeat Gharnef wielding Imhullu is Starlight, since it's forged from the Lightsphere (and the Starsphere, but it doesn't do anything against the Darksphere by itself)

 

[Kaltias]

This fight is more like an immovable object vs another immovable object. They will keep fighting until one of them dies of old age lol

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

So, inconclusive?

 

[Kaltias]

Yes

 

[ALRF]

Inconclusive for reasons already stated by Kaltias. There is no Winner here

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

I agree with the rest on inconclusive.

Also just to really say this, people here seem to have some sort of misconception on how the whole "Loop of Death" thing works. After about a year or so of dealing with JJBA, i realized a while back that it actually only works IF GER kills someone, as it's killing them but putted their death in a constant loop where the victim can't die for good......if that's how it works. At least to me, that's how it's like in how it works.

Thing here is that if GER can't kill them due to whatever thing they have on them (some form of immortality that makes even GER's LoD do nothing to them, acausality, whatever the heck Gharnef has here, heck even being more physically powerful than GER's own physical strength, etc.), then it's practically pointless and GER's power will have no effect on them whatsoever. Really, GER follows like a 2-step process when it fights someone: Turn all their actions and willpower to zero, then pummel them and put them in a loop of death.

GER can do the first one just fine, of course. But since Gharnef has something that makes him hard to kill if at all or something, then GER's actions will do nothing to him here.

Hence, inconclusive for me as GER can't do anything to put him down for good while Gharnef will keep having his actions cancelled to zero.....or just can't do anything at all.

 

[Arigarmy]

Going Inconclusive on this one, Cross explained it already pretty well here.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Well, what's making Gharnef hard to kill is Imhullu, which is giving him Invulnerability (Any attempt to attack Gharnef will result in no damage taken, and he's free to attack you) to weapons other than Starlight (or presumably anything with similar properties, which I'm pretty sure GER isn't similar to Starlight) or other weapons capable of bypassing invulnerability, and Imhullu also only gives Gharnef Invulnerability if he has it, it's not like it can be away from Gharnef and then still make him Invulnerable, that logic would just be NLF (and IIRC if Gharnef breaks Imhullu in FE1 he can then be defeated, but the limited use for Imhullu was retconned, and it's only a use when Gharnef attacks)

There's a reason why I added Inconclusive onto the vote tally...

Gotoh: Yes. The mage who wields it cannot be killed; cannot be so much as scratched.

Which is what shows the invulnerability isn't game mechanics, but actually true to the story as well

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Inconclusive for reasons above; this is actually a stalemate if you ask me.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Bump

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Bump

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Bump

 

[PaChi2]

Imhullu's invulnerability isnt totally passive, Gharnef needs to have the spell already activated (as in, fighting stance or whatever), my guess is that turning his willpower to zero would turn off the invulnerability (because Gharnef wouldnt activate the spell, or rather, he'd stop casting the spell). This guesswork is the best I can get.

Summarizing:

1: Gharnef activates Imhullu (battle starts)--> here the invulnerability is pasive, any attack to him would be pointless. 2: He attacks Giorno. 3: GER lolhaxes willpower to zero. 4: Gharnef turns off Imhullu (Ingame you'd see him unequiping Imhullu) 5: You know what comes next.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

He isn't ever shown activating Imhullu's invulnerability, the only thing he is shown activating is the attack itself.

Lets apply Occam's Razor: It's either passive or he does something never seen, implied, or mentioned to activate it

Which one is the simplest/makes more sense?

 

[PaChi2]

Equipping the spell = turning it on. Unequipping it = turning it off.

The attack has nothing to do with this.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

King Crimson was still activated after GER nullified the time skip, you can see it getting pummeled by GER along with Diavolo, which means GER negated its ability, not the Stand itself, all this means is Gharnef isn't able to attack Giorno, he's still holding Imhullu, which passively grants invulnerability, which means the ATTACK is nullified, nothing else.

Why would GER make Gharnef "unequip" something? I can argue that KC was still "equipped" after the time skip was nullified.

Or do you want to argue that Imhullu isn't passive now?

 

[PaChi2]

I just said that turning Gharnef's willpower to zero could make him turn Imhullu off. If GER cannot do that, then there is nothing but stalemate.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

So, inconclusive?

 

[PaChi2]

At best Gharnef could trick Giorno into becoming evil and become his servant. Dunno if GER would protect Giorno from the evil influence of the Darksphere (if Gharnef is given access to it, that is).

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Well, doesn't the Darksphere work by having someone take it (which IIRC is how Hardin was corrupted, he took the Darksphere after Gharnef convinced him to take it while is marriage was failing, his depression and whatnot made him vulnerable), I don't think Gharnef would be able to make the actions of convincing Giorno to take the Darksphere, since well, it would be an action.

 

[PaChi2]

Well, assuming this is a conventional battle, yeah, dont think so. But it would be possible outside of the context: Gharnef meaning no harm gives the Darksphere to an unaware Giorno who ends up consumed by his own twisted and corrupted evil self (No action, just passive).

At this point this is inconclusive.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Well, I just need someone to add this to Giorno's profile sine it's locked

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Alright, i'm going with that then,..