A minor case of regen and shock therapy - Alex Mercer Revision

[Ciruno_Fortes]

There is quite the issue with his Regenerationn being claimed to be Mid-High. I will not be using the Anti-Feats of him running out of biomass slowing down his Regenerationn nor the James Heller Fight. PIS or not that was already integrated here. But instead I'll be focusing on the reason why Alex Mercer got such a rating.

His rating comes from this-

https://youtu.be/hg74MpERlyw?t=609

Though it's an impressive feat debated numerous times before on whether Alex tanked it or not. But here we're using a single frame of a cutscene in order to base off a Regenerationn feat off of that. Though every other Regenerationn feat for Alex makes sense (The Supreme Hunter slowly regenerating from a puddle, his recovery from the nuke, and uh, that's about all the onscreen feats I remember).

But this one is a bit hard to use as a frame of reference for a feat.

We can barely make out the image and I doubt you can point out any body parts in there. We can assume that it's Alex and not just the seat on him but that's still a hard frame for reference and even if he were to burn up like that, what makes it Mid-high?


I see that there's statements about him basically burning out of existence (A bit of a hyperbole to be honest) but how can we be certain his body didn't just burn up and scatter/explode and scatter said biomass? This feat would be a lot more credible if we actually have a better shot but we're basing a big feat off of a literal frame and making some assumptions after.

A bit off topic but if I want Alex to regenerate from ashes and nothing else it would be better to have him just do that, appearing out of dust as if Thanos just undoed the Infinity Gauntlet effect but that's off topic.

Him washing ashore as a biomass is a bit more of an add on. Are we sure that all of him burnt up entirely? We're assuming that basically when there's already bits of him scattered about.

This basically means the Mid-High regen has to be nerfed to Low-High, or at least if we want to be very generous, give it a Possibly Mid-High regen considering the case around it. We're assuming too much on this one.


On another note...

The electric resistance feat.

https://youtu.be/oKspwSowaKQ?t=125

It comes from this. I can't find the main argument on why this was made but it's pretty clear. The Hydra is repeatedly exposed to electricity and adapted out of it... Except... Things are kinda not that.

The context of the scene has James Heller walking into the place and the scientists zap the Hydra. Suddenly the sedated Hydra begins to wake up and wreck havoc. What do the scientists say?

"Why is it agitated!? It's supposed to be sleeping!"

"I don't know! Must be an outside factor!"

"Call SCP! Call Lob Corp!"

Not literal of course but... there's an outside factor there. James Heller. They literally zapped the Hydra with a small cattle prod (seriously bro what are you doing with that anyway) and makes it convulse. And then it begins to wake up. Because James Heller is there.

I'm looking around if there's any more proof of electric resistance or repeated exposure but there's no other feats around. The only other times electricity is involved is when Cross was surviving against Alex Mercer in his fight, and that one Web of Intrigue I'm trying to hunt down where Cross hunts down Runners with that electric baton. There has been no other case of electric resistance and the current reasoning we have for that is kinda flimsy.


Thirdly...

I think Power Nullification stems mostly from the fact that Alex was manipulating something biologically. It is truly Power Nullification, but it's the same as me being injected with a paralyzing drug and being "Prevented/Nullified" from being capable of moving. Sure it was a parasite that shut down Alex but that's like an antivenom made to counterattack a being. We can't call all medicines like that. This would create kinda a misunderstanding with other actual power nullification such as something of non-biological means. Anything else is fine though but take note, this cure/parasite/Supreme Hunter was made to directly counter Alex Mercer.

So yeah, modify Power Nullification to note that it only works on Biological changes and powers.


TLDR

- Nerf Mid-High to Low-High and maybe put it as Possibly Mid-High due to the nature of the single frame feat and no other feats that are on similar level

- Remove Electric resistance since we don't have enough backings for it

- Power Nullification must be noted to only work on Biological means of nullifying powers

 

[DeathNoodles]

Power Nullfication is already listed next to Biological Manipulation.

Also, Power Nullification (and resistance to it) is judged by potency, not really by the nature/origin of the Power Nullification, so it doesn't matter much either way. Whether or not the Power Nullification is biological doesn't matter, it's the effects the Power Null brings that matters. Power Nullification that prevents the activation/use of abilities in the first place (rather than nullifying the effects of the abilities after it is used) is still Power Nullification after all.

Also, I'm going to wait for Callsign's thoughts about the rest of your points. I'm only here for the Power Null points.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Ive contacted him already

 

[DeathNoodles]

Ive contacted him already

You should've seen my message on Callsign's wall. You got Ninja'd.

Edit: The gap of the timeframes between my post and yours were only seconds apart from what I can tell, so I can't blame you.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes]

Thank you kindly both of you! But gotcha on that DeathNoodles.

Well I mean if someone has the power say of haxx like "Revert all your abilities to 0" or something in magical nature I think it's likely to note that. Much of Alex's power null is based on that biological aspect so I can't imagine him resisting say something that's conceptual or so. Though that breaches on conceptual. It's just that Alex's resistance to it is based a lot on resisting a parasite. Not really a unique power. Sure you can resist one type of nullification but I find it unlikely to work on all kinds of nullifications.

 

[DeathNoodles]

That's fair. But, it has already been noted that Power Nullification via Causality Manipulation ("set your stuff to 0". Gold Experience Requiem much?) has been noted by one of the staffs as something that can't simply be resisted by users with Resistance to Power Nullification as whatever their actions and effects their powers beings has never happened in the first place (in contrast to their powers being affected and nullified directly), so there's that.

Conceptual Manipulation is one of the most haxed powers in this site (especially the higher types of it, such as Type 2 and 1), and Mercer certainly won't get resistance to that, so Power Null via Conceptual Manipulation obviously is too high-grade for your standard Power Null. ^_^;


As for the only resisting one types of Power Null:

Again, it depends on a case to case basis, especially in regards to the mechanics of the Power Null. Power Null that negates magic wouldn't work on Mercer as he doesn't use magic. Some magic spell that nulls biological manipulation via directly inhibiting the user wouldn't work as Mercer already resisted something similar from The Parasite (it being "magic" doesn't matter as the mechanism for how it Power Nulls is already similar to the feat Mercer resisted, which is not something that Verse Equalisation can't cover), but if it Nulls the effects of his abilities (as in, his abilities never happened in the first place, Gold Experience Requiem style) then of course he gets affected.

So yeah, this is what I meant by the potency of the Power Nullification. It all depends on the mechanics of the Power Null and its feats. In this case, Mercer's resistance to Power Null doesn't make his resistance any less potent against other types of Power Nulls with similar effects and mechanics, but he could get affected by Power Nulls with different nullifying mechanics than the one he resisted (like Gold Experience Requiem or Misogi Kumagawa, the latter of who works by erasing the events of the characters using their abilities or using one of his screws that "drags them to his level" and makes them equal to him, thus removing his target's abilities that he doesn't have).

 

[Ciruno_Fortes]

That's not really the power nullification I'm talking about but something else more. But yeah that ability is BS anyway and would've affected almost anything lol. It's more temporal in effect so it's not the right thing to use. I'll go around for some power null examples but yeah it seems like it's gonna be a case by case basis.

Fair nuff. Too op is too op.

Naturally, it would be like using soul manipulation on Alex. It will simply not happen cause there's nothing to negate. Example being Kamijou Touma and Asta from Black Clover. No effect there. However I'm also thinking more of abilities like say AncientBeetlemo whom just states the power. I can see it being a case by case basis but I think it's a good idea to note it that it's at least happening. Just to make it more clear, I guess it's more for design clarity.

Good thing I refreshed before posting, just saw the edits. Anyway I'm still very unsure about the usage of this considering Alex never really attempted a similar ability onto enemies like James. It might be PIS or him trying to find a hero/good person out there but that would be assumption. Anyway I'm not gonna contest that but I basically just want a note to clarify on that. Even just on the bottom to make it easier.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

A clarifying note should be fine. I feel like were all waiting on call sign....

 

[Ciruno_Fortes]

It's cool! Though I hope our time zones match. It always sucks when you're debating with someone who's asleep while you're awake and vice versa. Then again the edits I want are only minor adjustments so this should finish up quickly anyway

 

[DeathNoodles]

Good thing I refreshed before posting, just saw the edits. Anyway I'm still very unsure about the usage of this considering Alex never really attempted a similar ability onto enemies like James. It might be PIS or him trying to find a hero/good person out there but that would be assumption. Anyway I'm not gonna contest that but I basically just want a note to clarify on that. Even just on the bottom to make it easier.

Alex Mercer doesn't have Power Nullification though, he only has resistance to it, based on on-screen showings (we can't find any explicit evidence that he has consumed the Supreme Hunter after all).

 

[Ciruno_Fortes]

Wait really? Darn. Must've misread the Power Null section then again multi chatting can mix you up

Then again if we have a showing for Supreme Hunter that might end up as a counter feat to the regen and tanking feat so it's better we don't lol.

 

[DeathNoodles]

It's cool! Though I hope our time zones match. It always sucks when you're debating with someone who's asleep while you're awake and vice versa. Then again the edits I want are only minor adjustments so this should finish up quickly anyway

Indeed. I hope so as well, but that's how time zones are, sadly.

Now, you're just going to need for Callsign's thoughts about the rest of your points.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes]

Ah well can't be helped. And eh I'm a patient guy anyway

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1507420 This would probably help, just search up Coreof and I should show up

 

[DeathNoodles]

Ah well can't be helped. And eh I'm a patient guy anyway

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1507420 This would probably help, just search up Coreof and I should show up

I'm in UTC+10, just to let you know.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes]

That's uhhh, 2:50 am there? Or is it 4:40 pm?

 

[Callsign_Castle]

"I see that there's statements about him basically burning out of existence (A bit of a hyperbole to be honest) but how can we be certain his body didn't just burn up and scatter/explode and scatter said biomass?"

You can already see the right side of his body literally burned away, to the point where Mercer looks like he has half a body remaining, with flames bursting out all of his orifices. And this is before he's even consumed by the fireball, these are just the effects of being near the heat of it. His body wouldn't explode because he's being consumed by super heated energy. Explosions don't make people spontaneously combust. There's more of an assumption to assume he wasn't wiped out entirely than to draw the conclusion that he was. I've also never heard anything saying "he was burned out of existence".

"Him washing ashore as a biomass is a bit more of an add on. Are we sure that all of him burnt up entirely? We're assuming that basically when there's already bits of him scattered about."

You're assuming there's bits of him scattered about when we can see what happened to him miles away from the shore?

Regarding the electricity thing, it can be argued the hydra convulsing was a reaction to Heller. A cattle prod has enough juice to make a grown man jump from the shock, but it certainly won't make their whole body shock, let alone for a super creature that likely weighs several tons.

Regarding power null, its honestly up to deathnoodle since he added the ability.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

the thing with the regen is even in said clip we can clearly see that he is being vaporized(considering that he is being littraly burned from inside out) to somewhat back it up we have the fact that mercer can control black light on a malecular level(prototype 2, which also explains the insane shit he's able to do with it) which should at least partialy effect his regen(considering he is littraly made out of the stuff) ofcourse it dosen't mean that he should have high regen at that point he shouldn't be able to reform at all but it should give some what of a cridense to him being able to reform from vapors

also the requirnments for mid high is The ability to regenerate from being reduced to ash, dust, smoke, or vapor not just ash

and the electricity weakness i have to some what agree with(cuse the electrisity that hit mercer could actually explode human bodies on impact and all it dose to mercer is lock him in place as long as the source of said electricity is conected to him and even then it dosen't do much dmg to him) but he could still potenionly overcome it with rective evolution since he could overcome direct weaknesses before.

and the anti feat that is james heller beating mercer down till he could regen is an inrmouse outlier considering he wasn't even low on bio-mass heller littraly got enough bio mass form mercer to fill up manhattan if we take that anti feat at face value mercer and james would at best have mid regen which would go ageinst littraly everthing prior to that point

it would go ageinst the nuke feat, the supreme hunter regen feat hell even the feat where mercer gets half his head blown of and heals back instanly would be off the table as well

 

[Ciruno_Fortes]

@Callsign

He could've been liquifying into puddle for all we know after that. There is so much unclearness on that one frame alone. And yes this is before he was consumed by the flames. Well typically people don't end up like that. But then again fiction can be a bit more malleable. This would be a lot more of a stronger argument if we had more scenes of it and Alex didn't end up liquified. We're basing so much off of this one little frame. What if he tanked the initial heat and is trying to regen through that? What if that's the reason why he ended up liquified? What if he didn't spontaneously combust and was strong enough to survive the initial blast before the shockwave itself just exploded him? As much as Prototype tries to be realistic, like many other fictional verses we don't have enough proof of what happened.

I'm not saying total removal, but we could just write it off as possibly. No biggie really. Just as ain case. But having a single frame of reference is kinda hard.

>Burned out of existence

Hey now, https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2859689#6 It's your words not mine. ( You can see nearly half of his body already burned out of existence.)

>Assume

Maybe this is wrong wording, but I mean to say can we safely assume that he turned to nothing but ash when there's the strong possibility that he was just burning up and then got liquified by the shockwave?

>Electricity

I mean, the same cattle prod had the same effect on Alex mercer in his fight with Cross. I can see that being the case. But that would be a lot more effective if we didn't see James Heller just walking up. What the shock was enough to send it convulsing and wake it up and realize "Oh no, Infected Kratos is here". Also I agree that usually that wouldn't be the case on the cattle prod. But this is Prototype. They have tanks with mini nukes. Are we really sure we can say that their cattle prods are just regular cattle prods?

I'm afraid this electricity resistance feat needs more backing. I don't think this is viable enough.

> Power null

No worries! We clarified it.


@ Sir Sun

Rather than a clip, we have a frame for it. Or rather a frame of Alex handling burning up. Could he have tanked it and got liquified? Maybe. Could he have just burnt half out of existence and then regenned out of it? Maybe. But then again we don't know for sure. There's so much unclearness on a single scene that's never replicated ever again that it's a bit difficult to fully rely.

To control something and influence it is fine. Alex was said to be a growing virus and can consume people, and I'd say it's safe to say that you can control the memories he absorbs. I do like that argument though, it makes sense. But I'm still falling back on the ambiguity of the feat on how it can be either a tanking feat or regen feat. Not sure which you guys prefer but I think it's a lot safer to say possibly regen.

>Req

Yeah but I mean I'm they're almost the same. When I reference one I reference all of them.

>Electricity

I'm not sure if it can really explode humans I'm afraid. And uhh, not sure if that's true but fighting Cross made myself and a few other debaters back then agreed that it deals the same damage as a rocket. And that takes a chunkful. We can't really assume the electricity is enough to detonate people. And even with reactive evolution in mind we don't have a clear reference for how he deals with it. The best we can go for is that he's not weak to it, but he's definitely vulnerable.

>Anti feat

My friend I'm afraid that's what happened. We can't dissuade what really happened and all. Also James Heller might have all that biomass. Alex did just eat 7 people of similar level to James. I'm not saying Alex cannot regen from that level but this isn't the first time it happened. See Supreme Hunter who didn't regenerate after his second death. Then again he got nuked so...

Either way that's not the central argument here. I said I was focusing on the three but thank you for noting that. I'll detail it a bit-

Regen feats for Prototype

- Supreme Hunter was able to recover from a puddle, but couldn't revive the second time. We could say that this was based on some sort of focus less on Regenerationn and more on fighting evolution since he gave Alex a harder time.

> James Heller defeat - Anti feat or not it happened. Beat up an Evolved enough and they will run out of biomass and their regen will be slowed. From what I see it's likely that Alex realized he can't regen anymore and James is too strong.

>Nuke feat - Adressing that currently with Callsign above. It's an ambigious feat that needs more in order to not just be a "Possibly"

>Headshot feat - I think I remember this but uh, that's a really low level of regen.


I'll reclarify, I'm fine with keeping the regen but the ambiguity of its feat makes me that it would be safer to classify it as possible.

But it's the electric resistance feat that's really bugging me.

 

[Jasonsith]

Why is this in a versus thread? Somebody move it to content revision thread thanks.

 

[Schnee_One]

It's already in

 

[Ciruno_Fortes]

Must've put it in the wrong category. Thanks!

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

the regen feat is one of the few solid regen feats we get in game so Im in favor of keeping the current rating based on the disintergration we see happen with mercer caught in the fireball.

Elecretricity I think its unlikly its as effective as it was in the first game due to blackwatch not using it often but Im fine with it being listed as a possible weakness or at least being stated they have no special resistance. In the end Im also fine with it being listed as a straight weakness but it does leave me wondering on why black watch hasnt taken up more eltrical weapons...

Powernull resistace was covered by death earlier so I think thats mostly fine.

Basically Im in favor of changing the electric resistance, feel regen should be left as is based on call signs argument and powernull resistance is a case by case basis thing.

 

[Jasonsith]

I actually concur keep / restore the biomass requirement for Regenerationn for all Infected and Evolved.

I am also skeptical on the portion of his body burned up versus the portion reduced to ashes. So low high regen is safe but mid high regen is quite hyperbole.

I agree on reduced weakness against electricity attacks in late stage Mercer and Heller.

Power null resistance is fine.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes]

It is indeed the best regen feat we have but at the same time it's also the most ambiguous one. We don't know for sure if he disintegrated into literal ashes. It almost seems like Alex is able to survive enough of the heat and shockwave and washed ashore as liquified biomass. We see a glimpse of him burning and an unclear image. Heck he might've activated his Armored form to survive that.

It would've been cooler and made for consistent power scaling alongside threatening mini mooks. But I guess it's sort of difficult to pull off and it might've been a waste of resources to do that for so many people when the only ones who can use it effectively are those who don't die as fast.

As I said, me and Death and you agreed on a small note on it (for power null)

Agreeing with everything there with maybe the regen feat.

Edit - Really the only thing I'm really really against is the elec resistance.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

Ciruno Fortes
also isn't saying "we could say that this was based on some sort of focus less on Regenerationn and more on fighting evolution since he gave Alex a harder time" is assuming which is the same reason you where ageinst using the vaporizetion feat? we both know that this game series is inconsitent with preaty much everything

the supreme hunter has regenarated form a puddle and derives his main ablities(regen and more form mercer who himself has at least low high regen) there is littraly no reason for him not to be able to regenarate form having his head cut off, the devs simply couldn't finish him off properly due to how they wrote him so they coped out, same thing gose for the end of prototype 2 there is littraly no way mercer couldn't regenarted his hands considering how much boi mass was in him and heller couldn't of had anywhere close to that since he littraly used up a bunch of bio mass in the fight with his devostators, this is ageing just the inconsitenies within the series. Hell even if we say he needs bio mass the end of 2 still makes 0 sense considering mercer had all the bio mass in the world around him, he littraly summoned dozens of flyers and littral pilars of biomass all around them the ending is as big of an anti/PIS feat you could get and useing it is a big streach if you ask me

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Jason we have seen them regen without biomass though, the supreme hunter fully regrew without the input of addtional biomass, mercer outside of combat does regen, he is never physically slowed or bothered by a lack of biomass.

This issue has been covered in the past and debunked. I have no interest rearguing the same points about mercer requireing biomass when outside of actual gameplay there regen doesn't seem dependent on it.

So the general consensus seems to be the regen is fine(feat for it could be stronger but this series is rare on feats so...), the eletric resistances needs to go and powernul resist is also fine.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes]

@Sir Sun

This is exactly my point. A lot of feats for Alex uses assumptions. Which isn't really viable for a profile that goes 100%. We can at least at the bare minimum say that they are "Possible" and at least I'm only limiting it to this certain Regenerationn feat that has very minimal backing. Inconsistency and cherry picking feats that contradict are not something we should strive for if we want to say Alex definitely has this.

Wha? I'm not saying Alex can't regenerate his head off. I mean he literally regenerated from a puddle. I'm just saying I'm a bit doubtful on the legitimacy of the vaporization feat when this vaporization feat also comes in from the whole assumption side of things. Similar to above, I was only trying to provide an example of how assumptions can be dangerous. We could jump tiers or invent new abilities. Heck I'm not even sure why Alex has the gravity power going on when that was DLC but that's for another day. The whole finishing him off properly is fair, but at the same time that's under another basis that "They did this" and so on. At the very least if we have more backings we should link to those, hell even a WoG statement would be nice.

Wait what. That's a very big feat you're claiming there. He has zombies everywhere? Wouldn't that mean Blackwatch is everywhere then?

@Pen

I mean, it would be hard to debate and defend against this in that case. The Supreme hunter did grow back but that was because it was left to its own. I looked at the cutscene and I'm agreeing with you. The issue is when you hit something so many times that it becomes an issue. The Supreme Hunter was definitely still kicking after that.

Okay, kinda rude but alright. My argument is centered around the mid-high feat and the major issue with that argument is that I'm arguing about taking damage DURING combat or when Alex is taking damage. I'm fine with Alex and co healing up after a fight or out of a fight. I said that myself. Though this does mean that in fights that have Alex as a literal punching bag it might be a bit difficult to implement that since both the Supreme Hunter and the Alex Mercer regen out of puddle are after fights.

I mean 3 out of 5 debaters is not general consensus... It's barely the majority and the debate has only started. Still, I never had the intention of deleting the feat. I'm just saying "Possibly" is a lot safer to use for an ambiguous one frame feat.

Anyway got work, I'm surprised you're only debating about this now rather than yesterday. Let us continue this later!

 

[Migue79]

I always thought the white emerging from his right side was a cinematic effect... I mean, what we see is Alex get partially vaporized. Not completely. Considering the force of the blast was strong to tilt the helicopter when close enough, I don't think it is far-fetched to assume he could've been blown away and not get completely vaporized (or are we gonna say that Alex is heavier than the helicopter?). Also, if my knowledge on nukes doesn't betray me, the farther the beast goes, the more force-based the blast becomes. Again, if my knowledge on nukes doesn't betray me.

There are just as many valid arguments in favor of Mid-High Regenerationn as there are against it, and given the inconsistency of the series' story (thanks to 2 different writing teams), I think going for Mid-High is a bit too disputed to be that. So, I'm gonna have to agree with Jason and Circuno here. Only so much can you get from 1 frame out of +2,000,000 frames honestly.

As for everything else, I believe we have a consensus: Power Nullification's fine and electricity resistance's removal is fine.


Pls don't crucify me for my opinion on the regen >_<

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Ciruno 3 out of five in a series with five people actually still invested in it is the general consensus though. Humor aside the electricity feat being removed and power null seem set in stone.

the only thing still being argued about is mercers regen which we have two feats for. Your argument seems to be that frame isn;t enough. Yet we see mercer incenerated by the heat of the nuke before the fireball caught up, no ones arguing that he could tank that hit (atleast I don't think so) Simply that he was incenenerated.

Theres no logical way for bits of him to survive the heat, not when he appears to have been caught in the actual blast. In this case I feel logical reasoning wins out.

If we got a scene with mercer pulling his armor on, or some bit of him surviving the blast id be on your side but thats not what we get. We get mercer consumed by a nuclear blast, logically it should have disintergrated him.

The series is full of plot holes, and inconcitincies we have to apply logic where we can. Assuming some part of him survived the heat of a nuke requires a lot more in the way of assumptions.

That point about biomass being needed to regenerate was more directed at jason, I also didn't intend for it to be rude simply stating Im tired of that same argument apologies it came across that way.

Apoogies for not starting this yesterday I didn't have the energy at the time. Have a lovely day at work!


Mig You ruined my starting joke

Nuke do get more force based the farther you get from ground zero but mercer was still close enough to be incinerated before the fireball actually finished catching up. He didnt't have enough time to escape the heat of the nuke.

Thus he either A)somehow managed to avoid being fully incinerated which should be impossible when he was burning up before the fireball caught up. Or B) He burned up and began reforming from the ashes/vapor.

If theres just as many feats for and against we usually go for the higher showing as long as there is evidence to support it and the source material doesn't disagree. (I know the scene isnt much but the games have a total of two, three showings of solid Regenerationn feats) Seeing as the games are the source material here we have to pick feats from a sea of pis and inconcitincies.

Anyway yes electic is being removed and powernull remains unchanged. Ill continue to argue that regen should remain unchanged, though if enough peope disagree Ill agree with it being marked possibly.

edit Aww I so rarly get to crucify someone!

 

[Sir_sun_man]

not to mention the fact that we see half of him already turn to vapor and the other side is having flames erupt from his eye soket and mouth i highly dought tha he some how managed cover himself in armor in a spen of less them a second

also mercer might actually weigh more then the choper since he killed/consumed 1000ds of people so he'd weigh in around 70 tons or so @Migue79

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Lets not quantify mercers weight, he already breaks several laws of physics and I don't want to imagine how....HOW DO YOU GLIDE BY FETHERING OUT MASS? WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN!?

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Know what rant started, How does mercer manage to stand on top of a building with enough mass to grab every infected in the city? How the hell can heller still stand on said building after grabbing every infected? How can he jump with that much mass? What did heller do with all that excess mass?

How did evolve go anywhere! They are heavy enough to shatter concrete at there weakest literally have a scale in any point in a building or military check point and you should be able to find an evolved/mercer.....

edit I love prototype but the logical inconsitincies bug the crap out of me at times...

 

[Sir_sun_man]

well we know that he is way heavyer then a regular human the guy could pancacke cars from a 5 foot fall(not to mention the fact that he can leave a crator in the gound by falling from a few hundred meters he defenetly weighs more then 2 tons in the least)

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Not disputing any of that just saying my limited knowledge of physics is enough to tell me the movements and abilitie of mercer don't make any sense...

Also the plot hole of backwatch not installing a scale in front of there doors annoys me... Derail aside lets leave this till we see others response to my actual statement/argument....

 

[Sir_sun_man]

Not disputing any of that just saying my limited knowledge of physics is enough to tell me the movements and abilitie of mercer don't make any sense...
Also the plot hole of backwatch not installing a scale in front of there doors annoys me... Derail aside lets leave this till we see others response to my actual statement/argument....

oh yeah mercer breaks physics within the first 5 mins of the game

and he breaks them haaaaaaaaaaaard

 

[Callsign_Castle]

"He could've been liquifying into puddle for all we know after that. There is so much unclearness on that one frame alone. And yes this is before he was consumed by the flames. Well typically people don't end up like that. But then again fiction can be a bit more malleable. This would be a lot more of a stronger argument if we had more scenes of it and Alex didn't end up liquified. We're basing so much off of this one little frame. What if he tanked the initial heat and is trying to regen through that? What if that's the reason why he ended up liquified? What if he didn't spontaneously combust and was strong enough to survive the initial blast before the shockwave itself just exploded him? As much as Prototype tries to be realistic, like many other fictional verses we don't have enough proof of what happened.

I'm not saying total removal, but we could just write it off as possibly. No biggie really. Just as ain case. But having a single frame of reference is kinda hard."

If half his body was already burned away plus he's burning internally, how would it make sense that he would go from that to being liquified? He didn't tank the initial heat because we can see what it did to him, and tanking the initial blast before the shockwave is impossible because the shockwave is what travels the fastest, other than the radiation. He also doesn't regenerate fast enough to be actively regenerating while being burned alive.

You're suggesting way too many possibilities from what we can simply infer from the scene. Occam's razor suggests the explanation that requires the least speculation is usually correct.

And I did forgot that I said that, but it was clearly flowery language lol.

 

[DeathNoodles]

I actually concur keep / restore the biomass requirement for Regenerationn for all Infected and Evolved.

I don't agree with biomass-dependent Regenerationn.

Firstly, because I don't agree with restricting Mercer's Regenerationn to biomass based on just gameplay mechanics. The Regenerationn without needing to consume only working "outside of combat" sounds like a game mechanics restriction (the same type that had Mercer being hurt by bullets in the gameplay despite the cutscene of him tanking a RPG, or him getting one-shotted by a thermobarric tank explosion despite a cutscene of him tanking the explosion of an entire military base) made on the "Health Regenerationn" upgrade to keep things challenging for the player in the game rather than being a representative of their actual capabilities (same thing for Heller's fully upgraded Health Regenerationn upgrade in Prototype 2 working inside of combat, but it is slow in comparison to regenerating outside of combat or consuming a target for some reason. Of course, in spite of the restrictions the mechanics of the Health Regenerationn upgrade brings, it could also be used as a proof to support Regenerationn without needing biomass, just without the "outside of combat, or very slow inside of combat" restriction so that it could tie in to the cutscene of Mercer reforming a huge hole in his head without needing to consume anything). These mechanics are a bit contradicted by his cutscene feats, which I would mention below.

Secondly, Mercer has feats of being able to regenerate without needing to consume for biomass. When Mercer had a huge hole in his head, he was able to regenerate from it without needing to consume for biomass or anything, which contradicts the idea that he literally cannot regenerate when low on biomass (or not consuming anything). Sure, it might not be as good of a Regenerationn feat as the one from the nuke scene, but that is still proof that he can regenerate without needing to consume for biomass.

Thirdly, the Supreme Hunter was able to reform from a puddle of his own biomass (such as when he regrew a hand from it) in just a couple of seconds without consuming anything in that cutscene. As the Supreme Hunter is a being created from Alex Mercer's very own DNA, Alex Mercer would scale to that level of Regenerationn by default. Not only that, but he had regenerated from far worse circumstances than the Supreme Hunter does, which is his feat from the nuke scene. We don't know what happened to the Supreme Hunter after he got decapitated by Mercer, but his Regenerationn feat definitely still applies to Mercer.


Now, I'm a bit neutral for the whole rating for the Regenerationn of the characters, but I'm slightly leaning to Callsign's arguments of the vaporisation simply because it requires a bit less assumptions for the blast to vaporise Mercer than it is to assume that he only gets liquidated when we literally saw the short scene of Mercer getting incinerated from the inside and out before the fire of the blast even reached him.

I'm going to wait for arguments against the vaporisation, but my stance remains unchanged on the biomass-dependent Regenerationn, and I think that limitation should remain removed from the characters' profiles.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes]

Well it became 3 out of 6 when Mig voted so haha! : P

Though I don't want to blot out everything with walls of texts so I'll summarize some stuff. I think we're mostly in agreement except for the regen feat but that can be shortened.

@Mig

Don't worry, if you get crucified you become a legend : D But ty ma dude or dudette!

@Pen and Sun... Pensun... Pension...

The whole we see the feat is a frame I'm afraid. Sorry for repeating this and I don't want to sound like a broken record so I think this debate has focused more on the perspective of it and what's preferred. On the other hand, what's the other regen feat of equal level to this one?

There's also the fact that, you all agree that Prototype's Alex breaks the physics of the world - (How does he not need so much energy being able to move with so much mass, how is he able to fly with so much mass by going Emo Peter Pan and bleeding out (Thank Zero Punctuation for this joke), how is he unable to not crack the pavement by walkin- etc) -and we're using a logical feat on him. We're stating that's what happened but heck, what if Alex was just half burning the entire time and knocked off by the shockwave like Mig said and was just squashed into liquid upon crashing or slowly burnt the farther he got?

That said I'm happy to hear we're clear on power null and elec resistance. The latter is the one I was really on the edge about.

There's also the whole "I'm assuming" thing going on but that just kinda makes the "assuming" thing an issue.


@Callsign

Fair on the flowery language! Well, most of my argument relies on the above but to continue- what if he did tank the heat? What if he's tanking and out-regenning the heat, which is also a likely factor? There are many pieces of information we don't know and hard to really say especially with how brief this moment is. I mean, people can regenerate while being on fire actually. Far different from a nuke, but this is Alex Mercer we're talking about.

These are all the possibilities that could have happened to Alex, much like what happened with him being vaporised when he ended up liquified after the nuke. We also had to speculate almost everything in this scene. We needed to speculate and look for this one feat that had Alex appear for a frame burning, but nothing else. Are we to infer he tanked it despite the vagueness of the pic? Are we to infer that he was regenerating through it when he's half burning? Are we to assume he was vaporised into nothing when he's a liquid after the blast despite having no such scene? There are many things just as speculative and this feat is no less different than them all. Honestly this one even came out of nowhere to the point that for about- (checks Prototpye release date) for 10 years no one used this argument. Now... Does that mean it's unusable just because it's only found out recently? Well certainly not! New feats are found everyday to buff franchises. But this I'm afraid is just as speculative as everything else.

And if Occam's razor is to suggest... the direct result which requires the least speculation is that Alex was wiped out... But since it cut to the scene of him as a liquid, it wiped him out and he ended up as a liquid. It's speculative to assume anything else that happened within that time frame. Alex didn't become hot gas (That was James Heller, he's all hot gas lol) in any other scene that's not speculative.

You guys see a burning half husk of Alex, I see a blurry something burning for a frame.

 

[DMUA]

I agree with getting rid of electrical resistance

If he actually turned into vapor, why did he go back to being a puddle on the shore? More importantly, if he really turned to dust or something of the like, wouldn't he have just scattered into random directions and potentially been sent far further?

 

[Migue79]

@Circuno Fortes I am CLEARLY a dude. I mean, Miguel is totally the name of a girl.

Also, didn't yous conclude that the whole Alex getting owned by a nuke is an outlier in one of your CRTs?

If so, why are yous using an outlier to give Alex resistance to Radiation Manipulation and Mid-High regen? I'm pretty sure it was stated here that outliers in the VS Battles wiki were unusable in any way or form (at least according to the definition of an outlier provided by the wiki).

You know what, Circuno. You're right. As long as I'm a hero, I don't mind getting crucified. Totally not one, so I'm so ****** .