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Ahh the arguing of semantics.
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A minor case of regen and shock therapy - Alex Mercer Revision
- Thread starter Ciruno_Fortes
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- alex mercer prototype
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Saying all this someone definitly should do there own math as I have some serious issues with math and could be wrong. Migue save us
edit alright my calc is way off
edit alright my calc is way off
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The first link says people weren't vaporized and any that were claimed to be were really close and cooked from the inside. The other two seem good, but a Japanese source here states that while cremation/turning someone to ash is possible vaporization is not. I agree with his current regen rating, I just that that technically he was incinerated and not vaporized.
OH YEAH! THIS!
Ok, no, I agree with keeping Mid-High Regenerationn for Alex. Also, I'm pretty sure the only place in a nuke blast where things get vaporized is at the ground zero of the explosion IIRC. So, Alex can survive incineration, but not vaporization? Mid-High does say can reform from being Ash, dust, smoke or vapor. Right?
OH YEAH! THIS!
Ok, no, I agree with keeping Mid-High Regenerationn for Alex. Also, I'm pretty sure the only place in a nuke blast where things get vaporized is at the ground zero of the explosion IIRC. So, Alex can survive incineration, but not vaporization? Mid-High does say can reform from being Ash, dust, smoke or vapor. Right?
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Its all good mate. Take your time 
edit we have like five different time zones here.
edit we have like five different time zones here.
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The math was done here but doesn't account for the helicopter slowing down to a stop and turning around.
A red cross report using information based on a 10-20 kiloton nuke stated:
" The following describes the health effects and casualties that could be expected from only one 10 to 20 kiloton nuclear weapon (the size of the bombs that destroyed Hiroshima and Nagasaki) detonated at an altitude of 1 km above a densely populated area."
"Heat casualties: The earth below the epicentre of the blast would be heated to a temperature of approximately 7000┬░C, which would vaporize all living things in that area. Tens of thousands of those people who will not have been vaporized would be burnt, with most people suffering horrific full thickness skin burns. Severe burns could occur up to 3 km from the blast"
Considering an 8.1 megaton nuke has over 400x the amount of energy in a 20 kiloton nuke, and 800x the amount in a 10 kiloton nuke, the area of affect is likely several thousands more, if not higher since the increase isn't linear. The Hiroshima bomb was only 15 kilotons.
An excerpt from a research paper published by a Canadian university also says a ground burst from a 10-20 kiloton nuke would vaporize those in the immediate area.
A red cross report using information based on a 10-20 kiloton nuke stated:
" The following describes the health effects and casualties that could be expected from only one 10 to 20 kiloton nuclear weapon (the size of the bombs that destroyed Hiroshima and Nagasaki) detonated at an altitude of 1 km above a densely populated area."
"Heat casualties: The earth below the epicentre of the blast would be heated to a temperature of approximately 7000┬░C, which would vaporize all living things in that area. Tens of thousands of those people who will not have been vaporized would be burnt, with most people suffering horrific full thickness skin burns. Severe burns could occur up to 3 km from the blast"
Considering an 8.1 megaton nuke has over 400x the amount of energy in a 20 kiloton nuke, and 800x the amount in a 10 kiloton nuke, the area of affect is likely several thousands more, if not higher since the increase isn't linear. The Hiroshima bomb was only 15 kilotons.
An excerpt from a research paper published by a Canadian university also says a ground burst from a 10-20 kiloton nuke would vaporize those in the immediate area.
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Elizhaa I feel it was but thanks for clarifying It never hurts to be to clear!
I also feel mid high is supported enough to keep if that wasn't clear.
It never hurts to be to clear!I also feel mid high is supported enough to keep if that wasn't clear.
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Ok. I was able to quantify the radius of the fireball using DeathNoodles' information.
Here it is: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Migue79/Proof_to_Alex_Mercer%27s_Mid-High_Regenerationn
Here it is: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Migue79/Proof_to_Alex_Mercer%27s_Mid-High_Regenerationn
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- Thread starter
- #90
For some reason I couldn't comment at all but bah, anyway....
The one with the least assumptions is the one that never relied on that frame on the first place. Instead of a simple one state --> another state for Alex, we have instead one state --> a unclear state --> a simple state. As DMUA said if all of his body did burn up, why would he just choose to slowly build up as liquid then reform like Hulk just used the infinity Gauntlet? The existence of this feat, is a contradiction to that.
We assume that Alex Mercer's image there is him being half baked, but I only see light and flames. I mean, if you're saying that's his husk what about the fact that maybe the flames are just everywhere on the first place?
We assume that Alex isn't trying to regen through this or isn't tanking it through that process and is able to survive.
We have to assume the distance already.
This very existence is an assumption.
No. Alex beating up the Supreme Hunters makes sense much like how James Heller defeated Alex Mercer on the first place. Running out of biomass has been consistent here. Not to mention the fact that it falls properly on the line of "I evolve to get stronger and get newer abilities". This doesn't contradict the liquification state. Also even then, are you suggesting that Alex is weaker without his blades? I'm pretty sure it's just him being that strong and irrelevant to the weapons. Unless you mean the sight of SH being liquified after being beat up. In that case yeah it's weird, but when hasn't the game about you eating someone's grandpa been not weird? We're already applying logic to a game that barely holds logic in their DC feats.
That feels more like hyperbole considering he wasn't evolving himself reactively nor was he able to readjust to Bloodtox without outside help. This would be a lot more consistent if not for the fact that his evolution is very simple. Sure we can say that's a limit to games but a lot of researchers and so make Alex out to be a god. Though to ask, where does those two feats come from specifically? The game itself or some researchers? This is a better basis than the other nuke survival feat though.
Well easy. There's at least a central coherent mass for Alex when he's a puddle. Sure he has no brain there, but at least he's not more than one particle. Well. I will agree on the hyper realism, but then again so are you guys. You're already trying to figure out a calc to determine how far Alex Mercer is from the shore and the nuke. Doesn't that already betray Occam's razor? That we have to do all of this, in order to figure out something from an ambiguous state for Alex Mercer?
Yeah I wasn't really believing the timeframe gap. Then again almost every cutscene is darker so people might've just based it off the situation of you know-... Hang on.
Actually no. You have literally minutes fighting the Supreme Hunter to get the nuke out of the area. And then are you telling me it suddenly became evening and the bomb didn't go off? What is this Dragon Ball? I know things don't make sense on that level, but we at least know that the nuke was gonna trigger when it's all sunny in Prototype-delia.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFmeF2QfHZ8
There is a timeframe. And it's a big one. This one we can't deny.
Really. This feat is kinda a contradiction to the main argument for everyone.
But like I said, what's wrong with just putting it at Possibly considering the ambiguity of it?
The one with the least assumptions is the one that never relied on that frame on the first place. Instead of a simple one state --> another state for Alex, we have instead one state --> a unclear state --> a simple state. As DMUA said if all of his body did burn up, why would he just choose to slowly build up as liquid then reform like Hulk just used the infinity Gauntlet? The existence of this feat, is a contradiction to that.
We assume that Alex Mercer's image there is him being half baked, but I only see light and flames. I mean, if you're saying that's his husk what about the fact that maybe the flames are just everywhere on the first place?
We assume that Alex isn't trying to regen through this or isn't tanking it through that process and is able to survive.
We have to assume the distance already.
This very existence is an assumption.
No. Alex beating up the Supreme Hunters makes sense much like how James Heller defeated Alex Mercer on the first place. Running out of biomass has been consistent here. Not to mention the fact that it falls properly on the line of "I evolve to get stronger and get newer abilities". This doesn't contradict the liquification state. Also even then, are you suggesting that Alex is weaker without his blades? I'm pretty sure it's just him being that strong and irrelevant to the weapons. Unless you mean the sight of SH being liquified after being beat up. In that case yeah it's weird, but when hasn't the game about you eating someone's grandpa been not weird? We're already applying logic to a game that barely holds logic in their DC feats.
That feels more like hyperbole considering he wasn't evolving himself reactively nor was he able to readjust to Bloodtox without outside help. This would be a lot more consistent if not for the fact that his evolution is very simple. Sure we can say that's a limit to games but a lot of researchers and so make Alex out to be a god. Though to ask, where does those two feats come from specifically? The game itself or some researchers? This is a better basis than the other nuke survival feat though.
Well easy. There's at least a central coherent mass for Alex when he's a puddle. Sure he has no brain there, but at least he's not more than one particle. Well. I will agree on the hyper realism, but then again so are you guys. You're already trying to figure out a calc to determine how far Alex Mercer is from the shore and the nuke. Doesn't that already betray Occam's razor? That we have to do all of this, in order to figure out something from an ambiguous state for Alex Mercer?
Yeah I wasn't really believing the timeframe gap. Then again almost every cutscene is darker so people might've just based it off the situation of you know-... Hang on.
Actually no. You have literally minutes fighting the Supreme Hunter to get the nuke out of the area. And then are you telling me it suddenly became evening and the bomb didn't go off? What is this Dragon Ball? I know things don't make sense on that level, but we at least know that the nuke was gonna trigger when it's all sunny in Prototype-delia.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFmeF2QfHZ8
There is a timeframe. And it's a big one. This one we can't deny.
Really. This feat is kinda a contradiction to the main argument for everyone.
But like I said, what's wrong with just putting it at Possibly considering the ambiguity of it?
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- Thread starter
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Thanks! Also that was a pretty nice calc
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The pen or the sword said:
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The fact mercer hasnt had any matches added in eight months does sadden me....
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Trophies are meant to be looked at and kept on display.The pen or the sword said:
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i think you are confusing bloodtox with the parasite that mercer was injected with earlier, which he wasn't able to adjust to since the thing was made out of his DNA and would there for posses some of his trates aka ractive evolution and his constant mutations https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of1QsgGtA9Q time stamp 37:03Ciruno Fortes said:
he evolved to blood tox him self said by the cross/parasite seen here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG9UAwP24Sc
" you have an adventage Black watch dosen't know about: your growing immunity to bloodtox" word for word and i dono about yuo but that sound like reactive evolution to me(considering he was introduced to the stuff less then 2 days ago)
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Oh yeah that's on me. Meant SH, but Bloodtox was also there. Though rather than being simply reactive adaptation.. Couldn't it be just simply a biological method of shutting down said reactive adaptation and he has no resistance to it? It was made a cure to him after all, not a replicated clone otherwise we would have a very similar Runner to Greene.
Just saw that, thank you for the videos. I was just thinking reactive adaptation on a different scale. Cause you know, reactive is usually very fast and in mid-fight. Not a day or two. Still, it's there so there's that. But it seems a lot of Alex's best capabilities is when he's given time
Also not sure where but I think someone was talking about a lack of Alex Mercer matches or wins? Well I might have a guy to pit against him that could be a fun match whose victor I don't know who.
Just saw that, thank you for the videos. I was just thinking reactive adaptation on a different scale. Cause you know, reactive is usually very fast and in mid-fight. Not a day or two. Still, it's there so there's that. But it seems a lot of Alex's best capabilities is when he's given time
Also not sure where but I think someone was talking about a lack of Alex Mercer matches or wins? Well I might have a guy to pit against him that could be a fun match whose victor I don't know who.
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i really dought mercer can by pass his atomic level regen considering that at most his absorption can be malecular level since this is a thing which is not going to by pass that high atomic regenMigue79 said:
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Was me, when you mentioned examing mercers matches I looked them over to see which would be affected by him getting low high regen...The answer was none as mercer last added victory was eight months ago when we still had him pegged at low high.
Well lets save the match for when this crt is complete.
Well lets save the match for when this crt is complete.
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Evolution takes millions of years so compared to that, anything vastly shorter than that time period would classify as reactive in my opinion.
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We have to do math to qauntify feats especailly ones that are unclear like the nuke feat. We use occams razor to find the simplest explanation, the one that requires the least assumptions. Logically he burns up in nuclear fire, we than see him later as a blob of liquid. To assume he didn't burn up requires a massive assumption.
Gasses and ashes pulling together to form a slime seems perfectly logical to me. it also doesn't require us to assume mercer out regenned, or endured the heat of a nuclear explosion.
The timeframe doesn't make any sense period... mercer hooks the nuke to the copter and starts flying away during evening, its night as mercer drops the nuke into the water. Despite the fact the nuke was ready to go off in a matter of minutes in the evening. Its a massive temporal plothole, though I suspect its due to cinematic purposes...
Im okay with possibly but Id rather not as its going to form a point of contention where having him marked as straight mid high or low high doesnt.
Gasses and ashes pulling together to form a slime seems perfectly logical to me. it also doesn't require us to assume mercer out regenned, or endured the heat of a nuclear explosion.
The timeframe doesn't make any sense period... mercer hooks the nuke to the copter and starts flying away during evening, its night as mercer drops the nuke into the water. Despite the fact the nuke was ready to go off in a matter of minutes in the evening. Its a massive temporal plothole, though I suspect its due to cinematic purposes...
Im okay with possibly but Id rather not as its going to form a point of contention where having him marked as straight mid high or low high doesnt.
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I don't know if we need to note independent of biomass as thats already been removed from his profile...
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Fair point it used to be that way for a long time having it plainly stated will lead to less confusion. Im still in favor of plain mid high but Ill wait to hear others thoughts.
callsign But it was bright out when he fought the supreme hunter, it than becomes night as he hooks the nuke onto the helicopter. I suppose it was probably done so the play can see during the fight but its still bizzare.... Not making an argument against mid high just pointing out an annoying scene shift....
callsign But it was bright out when he fought the supreme hunter, it than becomes night as he hooks the nuke onto the helicopter. I suppose it was probably done so the play can see during the fight but its still bizzare.... Not making an argument against mid high just pointing out an annoying scene shift....
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I think its noted on the profile.
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Oh no I'm not trying to nerf reactive adaptation. But I am gonna say it's a lot slower than we expect and Alex isn't just gonna instantly out adapt the enemy.
Anyway last response before work-
@ Pen
This would be fair. This would all be right. If we didn't have only a single frame. If we had even another frame showing Alex Mercer screaming or something as he burns up it would be better. Instead you have a cinematic oneshot right here. Occam's razor is literally the reason why we never had such a high feat for Alex for the longest time. No one can get much out of that single scene without assuming "This" or "That" happened. Alex is literally burning, sure, barely. Can barely make it out. But is he tanking it? Is he outregenning it? Is he liquifying? We don't know. We don't know any of it. And considering he ended up as a puddle after washed ashore, it's much less speculative to assume he became gas and add so much complexities to it, when it's a lot simpler to just say he got liquified. Though the most unrealistic part of that is tanking it since it seems we both agree on that. You guys use Occam's Razor, but I'm afraid it's a contradiction like I'm saying numerous times here.
Well. Not to me. Nor DMUA it seems. Als I'm gonna look around try to find the yield of the nuke when I get back cause I don't remember much statements about it. All this complexity and calcs are fine, if not for the single feat being a single frame with many varying assumptions.
Maybe cinematic purpose. Idk. Maybe a note of this should be added jic
Well we can just go for removal or stay then.
Anyway last response before work-
@ Pen
This would be fair. This would all be right. If we didn't have only a single frame. If we had even another frame showing Alex Mercer screaming or something as he burns up it would be better. Instead you have a cinematic oneshot right here. Occam's razor is literally the reason why we never had such a high feat for Alex for the longest time. No one can get much out of that single scene without assuming "This" or "That" happened. Alex is literally burning, sure, barely. Can barely make it out. But is he tanking it? Is he outregenning it? Is he liquifying? We don't know. We don't know any of it. And considering he ended up as a puddle after washed ashore, it's much less speculative to assume he became gas and add so much complexities to it, when it's a lot simpler to just say he got liquified. Though the most unrealistic part of that is tanking it since it seems we both agree on that. You guys use Occam's Razor, but I'm afraid it's a contradiction like I'm saying numerous times here.
Well. Not to me. Nor DMUA it seems. Als I'm gonna look around try to find the yield of the nuke when I get back cause I don't remember much statements about it. All this complexity and calcs are fine, if not for the single feat being a single frame with many varying assumptions.
Maybe cinematic purpose. Idk. Maybe a note of this should be added jic
Well we can just go for removal or stay then.
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I think the situation is being overcomplicated.
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yeah i suppose so, since green wasn't much affected by said parasite although SH is preaty much mercer but his butt ******* ugly, since ya know he has almost all of mercers abilities his high levels of regen and his absorpionCiruno Fortes said:
oh no, no one is aruing that he can adapt in a fight so he could counter an oponent its more his reactive evolution is limited(listed in the proflie as such) the thing that is a bit more instresting is his constant mutation but that was never really explored much so it dosen't really matter much since we don't know what it can do
but if you want the vid mentioning it here it is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUS7-rfh3yE
time stamps: reactive mutations and limited adaptaion 4:35, 12:22 this is refering to green who mercer consumed(might be Pariha but thats unlikly since Mcmolan found out about pariha latter on seen here 28:48), 45:00(specifly states that red light was changing and mercer made it even more dangerus by a factor of 10),51:19,51:50
also you where right the parasite, it was specifly desined to make mercers own body kill it self seen here 19:22
and before you ask yes i sat through the entire thing
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yepCallsign Castle said:
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What's going on with this thread? Why is the situation for Mercer's Regenerationn rating made out to be so complicated in this thread?
Seriously, the only thing that has any certainty of agreement is the resistance to Power Null, and maybe the electric resistance.
Seriously, the only thing that has any certainty of agreement is the resistance to Power Null, and maybe the electric resistance.
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Because one side feels the frame and mercer being caught in the fireball is enough evidence for mid high, the other side disagrees. Neither interprtation is inheriently wrong both sides have some evidence thus this has dragged on. It feels awefully familar to me death....
"Flash back to overlord resistance crt"
"Flash back to overlord resistance crt"
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Indeed.
XD
Yeah, but unlike the Overlord resistance thread, at least that got concluded and had the resistance being added in the end. This one... Yeah, I don't even know.
XD
Yeah, but unlike the Overlord resistance thread, at least that got concluded and had the resistance being added in the end. This one... Yeah, I don't even know.
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Well two things are set in stone, powernull resist is being left as is and eletric resistance is being removed. Mid high regen is the point of contention for some reason.
Further flashbacks to a agreement on most of the thread with one point of contention.......
Further flashbacks to a agreement on most of the thread with one point of contention.......
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Indeed.
I am currently reading your new Prototype/MHA story btw, and I'm going to finish that chapter now.
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Let's avoid getting off topic now. Also Sun thank you a lot for those time stamps incredibly helpful, can't watch rn, will be hella busy this week, but to note, I think we're actually going back and forht just like that lol.
I think it's time to put people to voting again.
Also @ DeathNoodles
Power null and Elec Resistance sections are all done, it's really this left
I think it's time to put people to voting again.
Also @ DeathNoodles
Power null and Elec Resistance sections are all done, it's really this left
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Alright if it wasn't clear Im in favor of keeping regen as is
Current regen rating: 6 pen, sir sun, call sign, qwasedf234, elizhaa, death
low High rating with possibly mid high:3 cirno, jason, (Migue?)
Mig you changed your mind back and forth so confirmation would be appreciated
Current regen rating: 6 pen, sir sun, call sign, qwasedf234, elizhaa, death
low High rating with possibly mid high:3 cirno, jason, (Migue?)
Mig you changed your mind back and forth so confirmation would be appreciated
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