A minor case of regen and shock therapy - Alex Mercer Revision

[Ciruno_Fortes]

B-b-but this!

In all seriousness I didn't think that through lol and was typing it while eating. Then again I also know of a girl named Kevin and Riley so maybe I was influenced by that and the whole play it safe.

In this CRT or a diff one? Wait, are you sure it's me you're talking about? I don't recall doing a radiation thing for him.

Circuno... I like that name. Damn. Sounds like Articuno too. Where were you when I made this new account!? And I like the sound of being right. It's rare, but something to be cherished.

D: We'll make you into one then!


@DMUA

There's a possibility of him recovering in a slow process, slowly forming...But yeaah it's why I'm skeptical over this feat and at the very most generous I was thinking it could get a possibly

 

[Migue79]

You're gonna use an unreliable name website to determine my gender???? IM TRIGGERED!

No, no. You weren't a part of it. Just referring to DeathNoodles and Callsign (they were a part of previous CRT's regarding this feat.)

Also, I'm like 3 days new in VS Battles. So IDK anyone LOL. I used to be a ComicVine spectator and YouTube normie.

Also, the bomb went off deep underwater, so it should have a significant influence... Idk, honestly. Arguments in favor and against this feat are just as strong. For this reason, Alex's regen shouldn't be Mid-High for sure. At least Low-High, Possibly Mid-High is probably for the best...

 

[Ciruno_Fortes]

D: I'm sorry!! I use my trap card Canadian Apology!

Ahhh! My bad on that!

And just realized that, well welcome to VSB! Hope you enjoy your stay though we better not get off topic now.

And yeah the heat would be lessened. Not so much, but still helps. Yeah Possibly Mid-High is the best I can think for Alex rn.

 

[DeathNoodles]

Also, didn't yous conclude that the whole Alex getting owned by a nuke is an outlier in one of your CRTs?

If so, why are yous using an outlier to give Alex resistance to Radiation Manipulation and Mid-High regen? I'm pretty sure it was stated here that outliers in the VS Battles wiki were unusable in any way or form (at least according to the definition of an outlier provided by the wiki).

The outlier definition in this wiki: "An Outlier is an event or incident that is considered to be completely and irreconcilably inconsistent with a character, entity, group, or series' normal displayed level of power. Outliers are generally regarded as unusable in some forums debates. However, all effort should be made to try to reconcile outliers with other canon information, and only the most extreme examples should be classed as completely unusable. Often there is disagreement on exactly what constitutes an outlier, and things that are considered an outlier by some might not be considered to be one by everyone. Careful judgement should be used in all cases."

The bolded parts heavily implies that outliers are a case by case basis, where some aspects of a feat can be considered an outlier while others isn't. And it didn't say that an outlier feat is "unusable in any way or form". If anything, it heavily suggests that the scaling of an event or incident is judged on a case by case basis.

In this case, it was established that the nuke scene is an outlier for Mercer's durability and overall AP. Scale of Regenerationn and resistances to Radiation should be fine as they aren't exactly byproducts of Durability (tanking a mountain-destroying attack doesn't mean you can survive getting cancer from the radiation a nuke brings after all, nor does it mean you can regrow your limbs), with the latter showing that Mercer was completely unaffected by the after-effects a nuke would bring (which would be the radiation). Now, I wasn't responsible for the addition of radiation resistance in Mercer's profile, but I think that's the logic behind the radiation resistance.

I'm not the one who added the Mid-High Regenerationn rating for the characters' profiles though, so you'll need to wait for Callsign's reposes later (I think he's currently asleep at the time zone he's in).

 

[Ciruno_Fortes]

Honestly I'm supportive of Regenerationn though he probably could've just healed out of that one.

And ah darn. Gonna be busy for a literal week so this is gonna take some time.

 

[DeathNoodles]

Honestly I'm supportive of Regenerationn though he probably could've just healed out of that one.

And ah darn. Gonna be busy for a literal week so this is gonna take some time.

The agony of time zone differences. ^_^;

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Cirno

But it is mercer. Mercer does break several laws of physics but to suggest he somehow did so in such a way that he survives the heat of a nuke requires alot of speculation. Why not use occams razor and assume he was disintergrated and reformed?

Why would we use the on that require more assumption? It require far less speculation to think mercer is fully incenerated and reformed from the ashes/vapors. Mercer is in that chair, he is burning from the inside out before the fireball consumes him.

So what? You think mercer wasn't in that helicopter, that isn't mercer burning up in nuclear fire?

Im not saying there is one equivlant, just that we have three scenes to base mercers regening off of in total. And three scenes for mercers durability. Prototype isn't rich with with feats to examine to dissmiss this one seems wrong.This is mercers best showing, and it shows him burning in nuclear fire and returning.

Theres a time gap between mercers burning and his return likly took between several hours to several days seeing as the visible effects of the nuclear blast are no where to be seen.

Its certainly possible he survived one of the ways you describe but occams razor dictates disintergrated and returns as anything else requires far more speculation.

Kevin is the worlds best girl name....

Dmua,

If he was burned to ash/vapor as logic dictates he likly focused on pulling himself back together/regenerating, turning him into the black slime we see at the end. Why would he reform anywhere else? Dana is in the city.

To assume some part of him survives requires alot in the way of assumptions, far more than assuming he simply reformed after the nuke burned him away. Especially since we get a timeskip of either a few hours to a few days. As no visible signs of the nuke remain.

Migue

We cant consider it an outlier as its one of mercers only feats, like I said earlier prototype isnt overflowing with feats to examine when it comes to character abilities. If we dismiss the nuke feat we might as well dimiss the four or so other cutscene feats we have.

In the end Im okay with possibly mid high regen I just feel its going to end up being a point of contention in several fights. (The joke of mercer having like any fights ) As it will be the determing factor in several battles.

Actually being dropped in the ocean doesn't make it any cooler from what Ive read. if anything it allows the radiation to bond to more substances as it can transform both hydrogen and oxygen into radioactive isotopes. The visible mushroom cloud means the nuke couldn't reach an appropriate depth to lessen the heat/impact.

Mercer should have dropped the bomb sooner and closer to manhatten so it could actually sink to a depth where being dropped in water would help contain the blast. It would have left huge amount of radioactive isotopes and super heated radioactive sea water but it would have lessened the power of the blast.

Than again it would be liable to cause massive waves that would damage the city so maybe he cut the nuke explosion close to the surface on purpose? To avoid creating massive waves....

edit if any part of this comes across as rude I aplogize as thats not my intent.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes]

@ Pen

I'll limit my responses to you.

Cause... if you use Occam's razor then it's less he disintegrated and more liquified and then reformed since it ignores the speculation of what's going on with Alex's form.

You're already using the one that uses assumptions though. In fact the existence of this feat already relies on graphics of a single frame. I'm sorry but I just cannot see him burning halfway into nothing. Saying he does, is already speculative when he's already at the edge of the blast zone. Well we don't know how far but he seems to be fine burning up before the shockwave got him. It's speculative to say whatever happened to him during that process and it's safer to use the flying helicopter --> Alex's state after, rather than flying helicopter --> One frame of Alex's current situation --> Speculate whether he's dying, tanking, burning up, out regenning, etc, --> Alex's state (that contradicts some of those previous events)

No. I think he's inside. But I don't think he burnt into nothing at that point. He burnt. But that's all we can get from one frame.

Yeah, and those regen can't compare to turning into ash. Just because a franchise isn't rich with feats, doesn't mean we can skyrocket it with assumptions and speculation. Though that's not the case here, since we have a lot of feats for Alex. It's just that a lot of the high end abilities he has is a bit more lacking. His best showing is him surviving a nuke. Not him turning into ash and regening from that.

There is a time gap. But again. Let's use Occam's Razor. How much of that are we speculating? If we ignore every other speculation, he's literally a puddle after the nuke. That's the best we got.

I'm afraid not. This feat is born from speculation and is a literal contradiction with Occam's razor. The moment there's ambigiousness, is the moment where speculation is born, and that's the moment where it becomes questionable on the validity of this existing feat. I really want to believe, but as of now, this is all we got.

Also, if he's ash, I don't think he'll have the neurons necessary to think, considering anything that required to regenerate out of a puddle seemed to act more like instincts (Supreme Hunter's hand reaching for the air, Alex reaching out for the first thing he can eat when he's a puddle and unable to move. Sure he was regenerating but I don't think he was thinking of where to regenerate).

 

[Migue79]

@ Pen

I'll limit my responses to you.

Cause... if you use Occam's razor then it's less he disintegrated and more liquified and then reformed since it ignores the speculation of what's going on with Alex's form.

You're already using the one that uses assumptions though. In fact the existence of this feat already relies on graphics of a single frame. I'm sorry but I just cannot see him burning halfway into nothing. Saying he does, is already speculative when he's already at the edge of the blast zone. Well we don't know how far but he seems to be fine burning up before the shockwave got him. It's speculative to say whatever happened to him during that process and it's safer to use the flying helicopter --> Alex's state after, rather than flying helicopter --> One frame of Alex's current situation --> Speculate whether he's dying, tanking, burning up, out regenning, etc, --> Alex's state (that contradicts some of those previous events)

No. I think he's inside. But I don't think he burnt into nothing at that point. He burnt. But that's all we can get from one frame.

Yeah, and those regen can't compare to turning into ash. Just because a franchise isn't rich with feats, doesn't mean we can skyrocket it with assumptions and speculation. Though that's not the case here, since we have a lot of feats for Alex. It's just that a lot of the high end abilities he has is a bit more lacking. His best showing is him surviving a nuke. Not him turning into ash and regening from that.

There is a time gap. But again. Let's use Occam's Razor. How much of that are we speculating? If we ignore every other speculation, he's literally a puddle after the nuke. That's the best we got.

I'm afraid not. This feat is born from speculation and is a literal contradiction with Occam's razor. The moment there's ambigiousness, is the moment where speculation is born, and that's the moment where it becomes questionable on the validity of this existing feat. I really want to believe, but as of now, this is all we got.

Also, if he's ash, I don't think he'll have the neurons necessary to think, considering anything that required to regenerate out of a puddle seemed to act more like instincts (Supreme Hunter's hand reaching for the air, Alex reaching out for the first thing he can eat when he's a puddle and unable to move. Sure he was regenerating but I don't think he was thinking of where to regenerate).

Could not have said the whole speculation part any better honestly. It reminds me of when I saw a bunch of people arguing Carnage's regen after that Gene Bomb: both are very vague feat. And the ability of drawing speculations both in favor and against them shows the vagueness of the feats.

Also, thanks DeathNoodles for clarifying that.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Nukes don't liquify though, they vaporize. They are especially good at vaporizing things that start burning before being caught in the actual explosion.

The fact the nuke creates a blast radius on the surface means it didn't have enough time to sink before detonation. Mercer doesn't appear to be at the edge of the blast radius in the ending cutscene it seems like the explosion catches up to him.

No we also know that some time has passed since the nuke as no visible signs of it can be seen after mercer regens. This can vary depending on the size of the nuke of course.


Fair enough, Ill wait for others thoughts. While I feel the regen feat is fine as is, like I said I am ok with possibly mid high regen.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes]

Yeah that's true. In real life. In fiction you can have various amounts. Heck even in real life some people survive nuclear blasts. I just read about the guy who survived 2 nukes, amazing guy, tragic fellow.

Fair on that. Well, we can't be sure on how far the edge is but at the very least he wasn't at the center.

Wait... Some time has passed? That's gonna be even worse for Alex since that means his regen of that level is inapplicable in combat and can alter his other existing battles whether he won or lost or tied. Are you sure we have no time frame?


That's fair, doing the same.

 

[DeathNoodles]

Wait... Some time has passed? That's gonna be even worse for Alex since that means his regen of that level is inapplicable in combat and can alter his other existing battles whether he won or lost or tied. Are you sure we have no time frame?

Uh... Well, it's more like there might be a timeframe, but we don't know the exact timeframe even if we assume there is.

Mercer's puddle Regenerationn should still be combat applicable though, scaling to the Supreme Hunter without needing to consume any biomass (Supreme Hunter can reform his hand from a puddle within a few seconds, which suggests that he should be able to completely reform with similar speeds). I'm fine with possibly Mid-High, but I'm going to wait for more arguments as well.

 

[Migue79]

Yeah that's true. In real life. In fiction you can have various amounts. Heck even in real life some people survive nuclear blasts. I just read about the guy who survived 2 nukes, amazing guy, tragic fellow.

Fair on that. Well, we can't be sure on how far the edge is but at the very least he wasn't at the center.

Wait... Some time has passed? That's gonna be even worse for Alex since that means his regen of that level is inapplicable in combat and can alter his other existing battles whether he won or lost or tied. Are you sure we have no time frame?


That's fair, doing the same.

Want me to find out how far the edge of the fireball is? We know that it submerged and sank in the sea for 7 seconds. I can try to quantify the distance and assume that the yield of the bomb was 1 Megaton (city level, as it was stated to wipeout New York IIRC). It'll take a while. But do you want me to do it? It's possible.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes]

Though I kinda support that, that was still kinda a slow regen. Or at least would leave Alex open to vulnerable attacks. Still I don't mind it being included.

But damn... That hurts Alex even more then. There should've been a note on that then.

 

[Migue79]

We know the nuke works in conventional means. Therefore, quantifying it should be easy.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

I know about that guy amazing dude, always thought he should be the first to buy a lotto ticket. I mean you survive to nuclear bombings, either you have the greatest luck of all time or the worst....

Should be noted he was not caught in the actual fire ball though, scientifically speaking theres no way mercer isn't vaporized after that explosion catches up to him, (but real life<fiction logic)...

I haven't found a solid way to qauntify it could be anywhere from one hour to several. It being dropped in the water does mean less debris has to settle thus the visible effects fade quicker.... Considering it was night as the nuke was dropped and still night when mercer fully reformed it was within twelve hour timeframe...

Yeah gonna wait on more input....SIGH....Why cant I ever be part of a simple crt thread? Why do I always throw myself into the complex ones? I have other things to waste time on!

Edit Go for it migue!

 

[DeathNoodles]

@Migue79

The ending credits from Prototype states that the blast radius was around 10-15 miles. Just keep that in mind when you do it.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes]

@Migue

Up to you! I don't mind, I rather rely on more concrete stuff but that could help clarify

@The pen

Right? And lol several maybe. Hell if not for him getting hit by the first bomb, his family might've been dead cause they only survived due to getting medicine for him.

That's also true, but () is also truer lol.

Damn. It's really unclear. But since I think it was noon or so.... And then it went dark evening... I think we can at bare minimum have 6 hours? It doesn't look close to sunset but we can estimate at least.


I'm afraid that's what all VS threads are xD It's why I just provide small one cents or help build verses nowadays. No way am I getting into 400+ responses threads anymore cause at that point you can do other stuff.

 

[Migue79]

But with the provided time-frame, I don't think it's combat applicable...

I have a question (again, I am VERY new to VS Battles): in a Versus Thread, is incapacitation considered a victory condition?

Anyways, I'm right now working on the calculation. I should have it up in 16-18 hours from now (when DeathNoodles wakes up again, at least.).

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Decided to look over mercers victiories and decided to list why he won in each

Vanilla ice- Regen was helpful but mercer won due to gassing the areas around him and making an unwinnable situation. vannilas winning strat doesn't change with mercers regen and mercers willingness to just gas the area is still an easier win con....

sasori- Won due to regen and sasori lacking a means to kill him, probably different if we consider his regen low high

These three just seem like stomps in general as even assuming low high regen they don't seem to have an ability to incap/bfr/kill mercer.

Wolverine- won due to absorbition regen played a roll but low high wouldn't have lost him this fight, actually this fight looks like a stomp, unless this was before mercer biomass regen was removed...

Deadpool-won same reasons as wolverine, absorbtions a hard counter to regen....


Carnage-Mercers victory here was mostly due to him having absorbtion and the ablity to pummel carnage from range with large objects. This one is probably a stomp now even with low high regen as carnage win con was beating mercer down enough to stop his regen which is no longer part of his profile....

 

[DeathNoodles]

Decided to look over mercers victiories and decided to list why he won in each

Vanilla ice- Regen was helpful but mercer won due to gassing the areas around him and making an unwinnable situation. vannilas winning strat doesn't change with mercers regen and mercers willingness to just gas the area is still an easier win con....

sasori- Won due to regen and sasori lacking a means to kill him, probably different if we consider his regen low high

These three just seem like stomps in general as even assuming low high regen they don't seem to have an ability to incap/bfr/kill mercer.

Wolverine- won due to absorbition regen played a roll but low high wouldn't have lost him this fight, actually this fight looks like a stomp, unless this was before mercer biomass regen was removed...

Deadpool-won same reasons as wolverine, absorbtions a hard counter to regen....


Carnage-Mercers victory here was mostly due to him having absorbtion and the ablity to pummel carnage from range with large objects. This one is probably a stomp now even with low high regen as carnage win con was beating mercer down enough to stop his regen which is no longer part of his profile....

Most of these victories came from when Mercer has Low-High Regenerationn (it is before the Mid-High rating), so it shouldn't matter either way.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Ahh fair enough, though I still feel the deadpool and wolverine fights should be removed, whats there win con?

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Aplogies all I didn't check the time frame for these against mercers mid-high crt. (Hmm makes my point about mercer not getting matches seem even more accurate)

 

[DeathNoodles]

Ahh fair enough, though I still feel the deadpool and wolverine fights should be removed, whats there win con?

I don't think they have a win con. I think the only reason these 2 matches was not a stomp against Deadpool and Wolverine was due to the biomass-dependent Regenerationn Mercer has back then, which is now nonexistent...

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Ill head over to thread removal request in a bit....

 

[Migue79]

Well, now we know Alex is too broken for Marvel. In your face, Carnage fanboys!!!!!!!!11111111

Anyways, I'm hitting the hay: 6:00 A.M for me (I'm UTC 0 in case you're wondering).

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Get some rest, have a lovely day and better morning,

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Decided to check when mercers last win was added, it was eight months ago, the carnage vs mercer thread. All his victories came before the mid high crt.

 

[Jasonsith]

To be fair or not, Marvel and DC characters are often very fast, which is quite handicapped in speed equalised matches to be honest.

And the mid high Regenerationn is being rebuked now.

And Alex Mercer and Cole MacGrath have been in DC Comics (not original source) so yeah.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes]

Very true, equalizing and restricting makes things unfair for certain peeps.

I just want them to team up lol

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

I cant see a world where mercer doesn't try to eat cole for his powers though....Unless mercer eats some other conduits...Honestly outside a one on one fight mercer has a good shot of taking over coles version of earth, especailly since the conduits abilites come from genes....

 

[Sir_sun_man]

I cant see a world where mercer doesn't try to eat cole for his powers though....Unless mercer eats some other conduits...Honestly outside a one on one fight mercer has a good shot of taking over coles version of earth, especailly since the conduits abilites come from genes....

mercer would simply become Delsin from second son but on steroids(more then 10 different conduite powers for sure)

 

[Callsign_Castle]

@ Pen
I'll limit my responses to you.

Cause... if you use Occam's razor then it's less he disintegrated and more liquified and then reformed since it ignores the speculation of what's going on with Alex's form.

You're already using the one that uses assumptions though. In fact the existence of this feat already relies on graphics of a single frame. I'm sorry but I just cannot see him burning halfway into nothing. Saying he does, is already speculative when he's already at the edge of the blast zone. Well we don't know how far but he seems to be fine burning up before the shockwave got him. It's speculative to say whatever happened to him during that process and it's safer to use the flying helicopter --> Alex's state after, rather than flying helicopter --> One frame of Alex's current situation --> Speculate whether he's dying, tanking, burning up, out regenning, etc, --> Alex's state (that contradicts some of those previous events)

There is a time gap. But again. Let's use Occam's Razor. How much of that are we speculating? If we ignore every other speculation, he's literally a puddle after the nuke. That's the best we got.

I'm afraid not. This feat is born from speculation and is a literal contradiction with Occam's razor. The moment there's ambigiousness, is the moment where speculation is born, and that's the moment where it becomes questionable on the validity of this existing feat. I really want to believe, but as of now, this is all we got.

Also, if he's ash, I don't think he'll have the neurons necessary to think, considering anything that required to regenerate out of a puddle seemed to act more like instincts (Supreme Hunter's hand reaching for the air, Alex reaching out for the first thing he can eat when he's a puddle and unable to move. Sure he was regenerating but I don't think he was thinking of where to regenerate).

Occam's razor states the explanation with the least assumptions is usually the safest, not any argument with assumptions is wrong. That said, seeing nearly half of his body burned away in accordance with the evidence shown is the safest logical assumption with the least assumptions. Watching him get burned away from the heat and not even the fire, then suggesting he was liquified instead of vaporized, makes as much sense as Alex beating Supreme Hunter with his bare hands/bladed weapons, and his body looking like it was tossed in a blender instead of a shredded mess.

The second game says he can control every drop in existence down to the molecular level, and the first game saying he can has complete control over himself down to the genetic (molecular) level and differentiate his tissues instantaneously and on the fly.

How would being ash be any different than being a puddle of substance in regards to neurons? Neither have a nervous system. They don't even have brains regardless. You're applying way too much hyper-realism to a fictional setting.

Also in regards to a timeframe:

"The actual nuclear explosio takes place in a few micro seconds. The radiation lasts a few milliseconds, except for the residual radiation and materials irradiated that will last years. The rest is all plasma super heating the atmosphere to produce the blast effect. That lasts a few dozen seconds."

Using the game cutscenes, the feat happens at night and him completing the feat is still during that same night.

 

[Qawsedf234]

A nuclear blast wouldn't vaporize you. Even up close. Now it can turn someone to ash and Mercer's rating would be the same either way, I just wanted to point that out.

 

[Elizhaa]

A nuclear blast wouldn't vaporize you. Even up close. Now it can turn someone to ash and Mercer's rating would be the same either way, I just wanted to point that out.

I am pretty nuclear explosion can vaporized others even up close, @Qawsedf234:

Source:

• https://www.quora.com/Were-people-in-Hiroshima-actually-vaporized-Did-they-turn-to-dust
• http://www.animatedsoftware.com/environm/no_nukes/tenw/nuke_war.htm
• https://www.atomicheritage.org/history/survivors-hiroshima-and-nagasaki

 

[Elizhaa]

I agree with getting rid of electrical resistance

I agree.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Im not the best at math so this calc was wrong

 

[Qawsedf234]

I am pretty nuclear explosion can vaporized others even up close, @Qawsedf234:

Source:

• https://www.quora.com/Were-people-in-Hiroshima-actually-vaporized-Did-they-turn-to-dust
• http://www.animatedsoftware.com/environm/no_nukes/tenw/nuke_war.htm
• https://www.atomicheritage.org/history/survivors-hiroshima-and-nagasaki

The first link says people weren't vaporized and any that were claimed to be were really close and cooked from the inside. The other two seem good, but a Japanese source here states that while cremation/turning someone to ash is possible vaporization is not. I agree with his current regen rating, I just that that technically he was incinerated and not vaporized.

 

[Elizhaa]

Noted, @Qawsedf234. But, the Japanese source looks to be from 2005-2007 over 10 years so it is likely outdated; It is also made by Japanese teens so it less likely to be accurate: http://www.hiroshimapeacemedia.jp/hiroshima-koku/en/index.html. In any case, turning other to ash would still support Mid-High.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Yeah I think its still Mid-High, I just had an issue with the wording that's all.