A little update for a super multiverse

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Happy Goku Day!!!




We see in the manga that it is demonstrated that the villains are destroyed to such a level that there are not even molecules or matter left behind, you can very well see this when Cell is defeated in such an absurd level that it is completely erased from the comics.



Also the manga itself mentions that Cell can regenerate from a special central cell core contained in his head, so the attack to affect such a core must be on the same scale as the official website stated to destroy Cell.




DB's own official website confirms such a thing that happened during the manga, where it is impossible to refute the facts, Cell is destroyed at mol
ecule level

Cell launched a Kamehameha powerful enough to destroy the entire Solar System, and a weakened Gohan could only fight back with a one-handed Kamehameha! An epic back-and-forth ensued between the colossal, clashing beams, and just when all hope seemed lost, Gohan, with Goku's spirit supporting him from the afterlife, launched a father-son Kamehameha that not only repelled Cell's attack but completely obliterated him down to the last molecule.


Well, in the Majin Buu arc we have another confirmation where Majin Buu was affected to such a degree that it was completely reduced to nothing.



What I want? Molecular-level matter manipulation for Ki-using DB charact
ers

 

[Hasty12345]

Cell being able to regenerate from a clump of cells needing to be destroyed on the cellular level at least makes sense.

I'm not sure if the website should be taken as absolute fact, the manga makes it very clear Cell's regen relies on microscopic level cells to regenerate, and him disappearing on the manga panel isn't evidence of anything lower given Toriyama wouldn't be able to draw microscopic cells to scale from that point of reference anyway.

The Buu saga scans also only say "every last Cell had been obliterated" which also doesn't help the case for the websites accuracy.

Overall neutral but leaning towards disagree.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

This is just AP.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Cell being able to regenerate from a clump of cells needing to be destroyed on the cellular level at least makes sense.

I'm not sure if the website should be taken as absolute fact, the manga makes it very clear Cell's regen relies on microscopic level cells to regenerate, and him disappearing on the manga panel isn't evidence of anything lower given Toriyama wouldn't be able to draw microscopic cells to scale from that point of reference anyway.

The Buu saga scans also only say "every last Cell had been obliterated" which also doesn't help the case for the websites accuracy.

Overall neutral but leaning towards disagree.

I will just list that you are neutral, thanks for your contribution

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

This is just AP.

So it should be listed in skills, as AP due to Ki.

 

[Lonkitt]

I wouldn't call this hax for ki. Its a matter of raw AP leaving nothing left to regenerate from, something that can actually overcome a certain amount of regen types

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I wouldn't call this hax for ki. Its a matter of raw AP leaving nothing left to regenerate from, something that can actually overcome a certain amount of regen types

So what do we do here about it?

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Cell launched a Kamehameha powerful enough to destroy the entire Solar System, and a weakened Gohan could only fight back with a one-handed Kamehameha! An epic back-and-forth ensued between the colossal, clashing beams, and just when all hope seemed lost, Gohan, with Goku's spirit supporting him from the afterlife, launched a father-son Kamehameha that not only repelled Cell's attack but completely obliterated him down to the last molecule.

太陽系すべてを消し去るほどの強大なかめはめ波を放つも、悟飯と悟空の親子かめはめ波に吹き飛ばされて消滅した。 ► "Cell unleashed a Kamehameha so powerful that it would have obliterated the entire solar system, but was blown away by Gohan and Goku's father-son Kamehameha and disappeared."

The kanji for "molecule", 分子, does not exist here. Rather, "annihilation", 消滅, and "blown away", 吹き飛ばされて, take its place.

So what do we do here about it?

Nothing.

 

[Lonkitt]

I don't think anything would need to be specifically done? Maybe in Goku's case against Buu, it could speak to the potency of the specific Spirit Bomb he used at the time, given the attacks we've seen Buu come back from. In terms of abilities, I don't think anything can be altered. This is really only AP stuff

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

You know, we should probably scale Goku's Spirit Bomb to Trunks'
They're the same technique, they should have similar regen-negating abilities

 

[Lonkitt]

I don't think so. While there are certain types of regen negations, simply destroying one's entire body when they have regeneration on the level of a guy like Cell or Buu doesn't mean its special. Only that the AP pretty much overcame any chance of healing

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

I don't think so. While there are certain types of regen negations, simply destroying one's entire body when they have regeneration on the level of a guy like Cell or Buu doesn't mean its special. Only that the AP pretty much overcame any chance of healing

I'm talking about this,

 

[Lonkitt]

I'm talking about this,

Ohhhh, that

Curious to hear any possible arguments on that

 

[StekFence]

Happy Goku Day!!!




We see in the manga that it is demonstrated that the villains are destroyed to such a level that there are not even molecules or matter left behind, you can very well see this when Cell is defeated in such an absurd level that it is completely erased from the comics.



Also the manga itself mentions that Cell can regenerate from a special central cell core contained in his head, so the attack to affect such a core must be on the same scale as the official website stated to destroy Cell.




DB's own official website confirms such a thing that happened during the manga, where it is impossible to refute the facts, Cell is destroyed at mol
ecule level

Cell launched a Kamehameha powerful enough to destroy the entire Solar System, and a weakened Gohan could only fight back with a one-handed Kamehameha! An epic back-and-forth ensued between the colossal, clashing beams, and just when all hope seemed lost, Gohan, with Goku's spirit supporting him from the afterlife, launched a father-son Kamehameha that not only repelled Cell's attack but completely obliterated him down to the last molecule.


Well, in the Majin Buu arc we have another confirmation where Majin Buu was affected to such a degree that it was completely reduced to nothing.



What I want? Molecular-level matter manipulation for Ki-using DB charact
ers

Do you have evidence it’s not done with ap? Cos if it was, there would be no changes to the profiles

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

太陽系すべてを消し去るほどの強大なかめはめ波を放つも、悟飯と悟空の親子かめはめ波に吹き飛ばされて消滅した。 ► "Cell unleashed a Kamehameha so powerful that it would have obliterated the entire solar system, but was blown away by Gohan and Goku's father-son Kamehameha and disappeared."

The kanji for "molecule", 分子, does not exist here. Rather, "annihilation", 消滅, and "blown away", 吹き飛ばされて, take its place.

Nothing.

Where did you get that Japanese text? It doesn't have it on the website that I saw, it was only in English, if you took it from somewhere else, I recommend stopping the distortion.

 

[Hasty12345]

I'm not really buying the "it's just AP" arguments , I agree with cellular level destruction at least for now

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Where did you get that Japanese text? It doesn't have it on the website that I saw, it was only in English, if you took it from somewhere else, I recommend stopping the distortion.

"I recommend stopping the distortion"

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Yo, how do you record like that, definitely would be useful when indexing games

 

[StekFence]

In the case of Gohan, Goku keeps pushing him to hit harder and harder, that implies to me that it’s ap based. In the case of the Spirit bomb, he literally Collects a shit load of power to throw at people. That would also imply ap to me. I don’t see where it’s a dura negating ability, because the context behind each attack is some Uber ultra strong blast

I'm not really buying the "it's just AP" arguments , I agree with cellular level destruction at least for now

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

"I recommend stopping the distortion"

Nah nerd emoji is wild

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Do you have evidence it’s not done with ap? Cos if it was, there would be no changes to the profiles

I wouldn't call this hax for ki. Its a matter of raw AP leaving nothing left to regenerate from, something that can actually overcome a certain amount of regen types

This is just AP.

Wow, skill is Ki-based attack, and Ki can be used for various hax in DB, we can use Saint Seiya characters as examples where they use the cosmos to destroy such a thing at an atomic level, all skills are derived from the base energy to have the ability to affect that level.

If you use the same argument, we can demote several characters that you use your energy to affect at such a level and starting with Saint Seiya.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Yo, how do you record like that, definitely would be useful when indexing games

I have an RX 570, so I use AMD's Adrenalin driver software.

 

[StekFence]

If you use the same argument, we can demote several characters that you use your energy to affect at such a level and starting with Saint Seiya.

The difference is Saint Seiya specifically targets atomic bonds. That’s what makes it hax , since the conventional durability of a target is not the same as the atomic bonds comprising them. In this case, you haven’t shown any evidence that they did this with hax, only that the target was atomized. This could be done with ap or hax

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I have an RX 570, so I use AMD's Adrenalin driver software.

My RX 580 8GB solo

"I recommend stopping the distortion"

There was no such option on the website, I don't even know if the translation is reliable.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

all skills are derived from the base energy to have the ability to affect that level

The Cosmo being capable of splitting atoms is a universal rule established explicitly. In Dragon Ball, characters are destroyed on a cellular level because they are damaged beyond repair. Like, fire users are not given Matter Manipulation because they can kill cells.

 

[Lonkitt]

Wow, skill is Ki-based attack, and Ki can be used for various hax in DB, we can use Saint Seiya characters as examples where they use the cosmos to destroy such a thing at an atomic level, all skills are derived from the base energy to have the ability to affect that level.

If you use the same argument, we can demote several characters that you use your energy to affect at such a level and starting with Saint Seiya.

To be fair, I know nothing about Saint Seiya

On a serious note though, while I am in no way denying the way Ki hax multiple uses ability wise, I don't believe this qualifies for atomic based destruction. Other verses are usually a lot more specific and show greater support for atomic based destruction, like what you're proposing. From my experience, this doesn't hold the same evidence

 

[Nullflowerblush]

There was no such option on the website, I don't even know if the translation is reliable.

The original site is in Japanese.
The translation itself is rough and irrelevant. What matters is the fact that molecules are never mentioned.

 

[Hasty12345]

If you use the same argument, we can demote several characters that you use your energy to affect at such a level and starting with Saint Seiya.

no you can't bro, cosmo directly targets atoms

these are not the same arguments whatsoever

 

[Lonkitt]

The original site is in Japanese.
The translation itself is rough and irrelevant. What matters is the fact that molecules are never mentioned.

Oh yeah, huge thing worth mentioning (funnily enough, my own experience comes from a Toei related property as well)

When you're taking from sites like this, the material is often quite reliable to use, but do not gather scans with the auto translator. Using something like DeepL to translate the raw kanji is much better for validity and accuracy

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

The Cosmo being capable of splitting atoms is a universal rule established explicitly. In Dragon Ball, characters are destroyed on a cellular level because they are damaged beyond repair. Like, fire users are not given Matter Manipulation because they can kill cells.

no you can't bro, cosmo directly targets atoms

these are not the same arguments whatsoever

It's the same thing here, where such energy is used to destroy that thing at a certain level, I don't see much difference here in relation. So it's not something so different, since both energies are used to do such an act, only one has more explanation (only that changes) but there are also quotes of characters destroying such a character to a certain level with their energy in DB.

 

[StekFence]

Ok, so let’s hypothetically say Cosmo should be downgraded. Now how do you prove DB is doing this with hax.

 

[Hasty12345]

Ok, so let’s hypothetically say Cosmo should be downgraded. Now how do you prove DB is doing this with hax.

no let's not even entertain the idea.

It's the same thing here, where such energy is used to destroy that thing at a certain level, I don't see much difference here in relation. So it's not something so different, since both energies are used to do such an act, only one has more explanation (only that changes) but there are also quotes of characters destroying such a character to a certain level with their energy in DB.

You're not seeing any difference because you haven't read Saint Seiya. The contexts are way different.

Cosmo from ch1 of every iteration of Saint Seiya tells us it directly targets and destroys atoms as an axiom of the energy.

You're using feats of destruction to argue for a hax, Saint Seiya has hax as a way of destruction.

They are not the same.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

no let's not even entertain the idea.



You're not seeing any difference because you haven't read Saint Seiya. The contexts are way different.

Cosmo from ch1 of every iteration of Saint Seiya tells us it directly targets and destroys atoms as an axiom of the energy.

You're using feats of destruction to argue for a hax, Saint Seiya has hax as a way of destruction.

They are not the same.

Again with this? Yes, I've read Saint Seiya, if I'm mentioned it's because it uses the same pattern to affect such a character, the only thing that changes is just explanation which is more, but yes Saint Seiya characters also use their energy to affect such a thing

I am using examples to state such a thing, that they can also use their energy to affect such a level, ok? Don't worry that I won't mess with your verse, so calm down, I'm just using an example, where there's the same concept, just changing the explanation.

 

[StekFence]

You never provided evidence it wasn’t done with ap

 

[BLS]

I mean you can just vaporize people with sheer AP.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

I’m suprised nobody brought up Piccolo and trunks

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I’m suprised nobody brought up Piccolo and trunks

That's because it was rejected and I didn't want to use the same thing, Nullflower is the Japanese guy, I believe he would say it's something else, so I didn't even use it

 

[Hasty12345]

I’m suprised nobody brought up Piccolo and trunks

never heard of them

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

never heard of them

I bet the translation is wrong lol

And Trunks



This is the newest one, but I highly doubt it is.

 

[BLS]

I bet the translation is wrong lol

I think the problem with those statements is that it doesn't imply some inherent attribute of the destruction being matter manip (What i mean by that is that it isn't an a quirk of the their attacks or an abillitiy), just more so that they're so insanely strong they leave nothing of them left after shooting them with their beams. Also something you shouldn't take literal, as if to imply characters have microscopic vision or know when people attack them on an atomic level, instead of just acknowledging that there's nothing left of them stating vague "reducing to atoms" as a reply to their complete vaporization, something that makes more sense

Like i and many on here have said, sheer AP does completely eradicate people, especially in DB where their powers are in the stellar and universal levels. That doesn't make it an abillity though