A little change or fix for the Nonduality page??

[PrinceofPein]

But what they say about QS here is to prove that "uncountable infinite difference".

No verse can truly prove the "uncountable infinite difference" between dualities, a verse can only state that a character is transcendent and non-interactive from the dualities by nature. That's all. There is no TD like the example you gave, and we cannot use a statement used on physical and mathematical scales, such as uncountable infinity, in a hax like TD.

Yeah, that's just the way the context in the profile describes it, what are the statements like in verses?

Ahh... let me tell you, it's just inherently transcendent and non-interactive by nature againts the dualities, right? (More or less)

This is the only way to express TD in most verses

Again the only way to get QS is not uncountable infinite difference, it is one of the ways in which other ways can be equated to it. The most straightforward way is R>F. Which is masada. Or Apophatic like Fate.
So I don't see the problem here, if you have a problem with the wordings, then that's another issue but this are still uncountable infinite difference when equated.

 

[Georredannea15]

Again the only way to get QS is not uncountable infinite difference, it is one of the ways in which other ways can be equated to it. The most straightforward way is R>F. Which is masada. Or Apophatic like Fate.

Other qualitative superiority requirements, such as R>F or the uncountable infinity, do not give you a transcendence above concepts, but rather allow you to be directly transcendent of that plane itself dimensionally(in terms of power).

Because dualities, by their nature, spread throughout the whole plane and completely control the plane/reality on which they spread.

If we were to transcends the concepts and dualities that control this plane with an uncountable infinite power difference or R>F, as you say, we would have to give a higher dimensional AP and power each TD for this. But we don't do that

So I don't see the problem here, if you have a problem with the wordings, then that's another issue but this are still uncountable infinite difference when equated.

As I said, if we were to transcend these dualities in the ways you mentioned, such as uncountable infinite transcendence or R>F, this would necessarily provide higher-D power to every TD for each dimensional layers. Even such things are far from TD

 

[Dereck03]

Anyway, this thread is not to discuss QS but to reword the requirement, stop discussing the meaning or definition of QS.

 

[Antvasima]

@DontTalkDT @Ultima_Reality @Executor_N0 @Agnaa

What do you think should be done here?

 

[PrinceofPein]

Anyway, this thread is not to discuss QS but to reword the requirement, stop discussing the meaning or definition of QS.

The meaning and definition of QS is important here as the OP does not seem to get it is not just uncountable infinite difference that gives QS.

Other qualitative superiority requirements, such as R>F or the uncountable infinity, do not give you a transcendence above concepts, but rather allow you to be directly transcendent of that plane itself dimensionally(in terms of power).

Again I sent fate scans, is that TD? Yes or No
Very simple question.

Because dualities, by their nature, spread throughout the whole plane and completely control the plane/reality on which they spread.

And root is said not any of them, in fact it cant be described because it is that thing and it is not while transcending it all. That is TD based on QS.

If we were to transcends the concepts and dualities that control this plane with an uncountable infinite power difference or R>F, as you say, we would have to give a higher dimensional AP and power each TD for this. But we don't do that

Actually we do that, and for those that do not qualify for that, that is where non-duality comes in.

 

[Georredannea15]

Again I sent fate scans, is that TD? Yes or No
Very simple question.

Most of the things you posted only prove what you are talking about with transcendence and unaffected state, the other things are their multiple logic states not QS

And root is said not any of them, in fact it cant be described because it is that thing and it is not while transcending it all. That is TD based on QS.

Pein, these are not things that prove QS in TD, these are cases of multiple logics of dualities (type 3) that the root transcends, they have nothing to do with QS and are still not examples of QS

Actually we do that, and for those that do not qualify for that, that is where non-duality comes in.

No, even before of nonduality, verses that qualified for TD without any higher -D AP or "uncountable infinite" difference.

In fact, a character who gets higher -D AP would not qualify for TD in the first place, because their immunity to dualities and transcendence is not because they are a Transdual being, but because of their higher -D power or existence. (So a 5-D character cannot be given TD just because they are transcendent from 4-D dualities, and higher -D does not apply to TD unless it is very specific)

 

[Georredannea15]

Bump.

 

[Georredannea15]

Bump.

 

[Georredannea15]

Bump

 

[Dereck03]

Bump

What's the current tally vote?

 

[Georredannea15]

What's the current tally vote?

Not many staffs came, but Qawsedf gave the green light against removing QS(uncountable infinite difference) as long as there is a transcendence requirement rather than being outside of dualities.

Other than that, DeagonX doesn't seem to be in favor of it, and I guess you would agree.(Removal of QS)

 

[DontTalkDT]

@DontTalkDT @Ultima_Reality @Executor_N0 @Agnaa

What do you think should be done here?

By current equalization standards (given composite hierarchies) using qualitative superiority in this context is fine, but that may change with Ultima's revision, so there is no point to debating this right now IMO.

 

[Georredannea15]

By current equalization standards (given composite hierarchies) using qualitative superiority in this context is fine, but that may change with Ultima's revision, so there is no point to debating this right now IMO.

So is the qualitative superiority used in the TD context basically same the "uncountable infinite difference" and "higher level of infinity" that we use in dimensional layering now? Or is the qualitative superiority used in TD to be superior to all quantities of dualities? (Or something like that)

Can you clarify this?

For example ;

Transduality: Characters with this kind of non-duality exist outside and independent of the logical systems in which they are non-dual, they also have superiority againts the all natures of the dualities in that system and completely transcends them, that is a qualitative superiority. Besides immunizing them against the dualities in question, this power also immunizes them against attempts to apply those dualities to them, as they would transcend the scope of the haxes that could do so.

Like this?

 

[DontTalkDT]

In our system of composite hierarchies any difference, including non-quantifiable ones, which transcends a level of existence such that even infinity on that level is insignificant for them are considered at least one uncountable level of infinity greater. More, if the fiction goes on to specify that it is more.
Note that it isn't about being the same as some infinity, but about justifying the same rating.
That's how it is by current standards.

 

[NHTkenshin2]

On the topic of non-duality.

Non-duality question because its kinda weird.

Suppose there is an entity that fits our bill for Non-duality type 2, as in, this entity is in "a nondual state regarding all dual systems within an entire level of reality in a way that makes them occupy both or neither state of the dualities." Lets call the non-dual entity, entity 1, and put...

vsbattles.com

 

[Georredannea15]

In our system of composite hierarchies any difference, including non-quantifiable ones, which transcends a level of existence such that even infinity on that level is insignificant for them are considered at least one uncountable level of infinity greater. More, if the fiction goes on to specify that it is more.
Note that it isn't about being the same as some infinity, but about justifying the same rating.
That's how it is by current standards.

But if that's the case, wouldn't transcending dualities "at this level you describe" also give us higher -D power and AP? Because what you're saying is not only a superiority over nature of dualities, but also transcending the reality system in which dualities are propagated, and that's basically higher -D AP in this level.


But characters who get TDs basically don't have to have that. And another problem, how do we prove such a physical difference against dualities? Basically, the best way to prove this is to be "transcendent and indepented to the nature of dualities by your nature." Or is that not the case?

 

[DontTalkDT]

You wouldn't have higher dimensional manipulation, but yeah if you have transduality where you have qualitative superiority above reality, you should be a tier higher than that reality.
I mean, really, if you are truly superior to all duality, how would you have limited power in respect to the reality of which dualities you're superior over? If the reality still limits you in some way, are you really superior to all its dualities?

And yeah, the best way to prove this is that you have a qualitative difference of a superiority kind, which is big enough to trivialize the system/reality which that duality is part of. You will probably not often find evidence of this being the case regarding only one particular duality.
It's basically the same kind of consideration you would do for other non-dimension related tier 1 jumps. As usual the detailed considerations are case-by-case and it's easiest when just direct explanation is given.

 

[Georredannea15]

You wouldn't have higher dimensional manipulation, but yeah if you have transduality where you have qualitative superiority above reality, you should be a tier higher than that reality.
I mean, really, if you are truly superior to all duality, how would you have limited power in respect to the reality of which dualities you're superior over? If the reality still limits you in some way, are you really superior to all its dualities?

And yeah, the best way to prove this is that you have a qualitative difference of a superiority kind, which is big enough to trivialize the system/reality which that duality is part of. You will probably not often find evidence of this being the case regarding only one particular duality.
It's basically the same kind of consideration you would do for other non-dimension related tier 1 jumps. As usual the detailed considerations are case-by-case and it's easiest when just direct explanation is given.

I was interpreting it more as "not being affected by all the quantities of the dual systems spread on the plane of reality due to your existence and being superior to them" in this reality.

Because I believe that Transduality is basically a hax of existence. And I was mainly in favor of not combining such haxs of existence with Ap and power.

Because all aside, it seems a bit ridiculous that a character with 6-D power and existence would be given TD because he's immune to 5-D dualities.

 

[Georredannea15]

Bump.

 

[Antvasima]

DontTalk said that we should wait with this discussion until after Ultima's tiering revision thread has been finished.

 

[Georredannea15]

DontTalk said that we should wait with this discussion until after Ultima's tiering revision thread has been finished.

Okay then, that seems fair.