• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

A Hunter X Hunter calculation blog

Status
Not open for further replies.
@TioKill My calc does not give 387 Kilotons as a result.

If you're arguing against Charmander's calc, then whatever. But that's not my calc.
Charmander's calc also uses your Pixelscaling, which leads to 387 Kilotons by using a different height. It's still to be blamed on the lack of that piece of the crater.

But sure, I've used your method, and still got 113 Kilotons instead of ~87 Kt.

It's a very significant difference. I used your Youpi height.
 
@TioKill My calc does not give 387 Kilotons as a result.

If you're arguing against Charmander's calc, then whatever. But that's not my calc.
Damage could I get your opinion on the height situation?
Basically it comes down to this. The original way and the new way using Killua.
The original way assumes the height of a human to find his height which results in around 2.5 meters.
The new way uses Killua's canon height of 158 centimeters to find that Youpi is 3.2 meters
Now the reason it's debated is because it makes other people's heights, like Meruem and Pitou a lot higher.
Tio also pointed out that the heights in the book have been contradicted before. (Hisoka was stated as 184cm and in a more recent chapter was stated as being 190 cm)
However the book was still Authored by Togashi himself and would be what we consider secondary canon.
Killua's book height is also very close to the average of a 14 yo boy, his is 158 cm and the average is 162 cm
Also note that we are using the anime because in the original thread it was decided that the anime could be used for height scaling.
Here is a link to the original and the updated calc using the killua height.
 
Colt is very short. I'd say significantly short.
VoEPiXE.jpg

For the record, Cheetu is about average height.

So even using an average human feels wrong. But I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

w3ry2FK.png

Colt: 1.72m/132px
Youpi: 201px = 2.6m


Well, even with the generous height, that's far from 3 meters. With Colt's actual height, which might be around 1.6m, it would go down to 2.4m, or around what @Damage3245 calculated, consistency. Inconsistent for you.


Meruem is also a short boi, he's smaller than Pitou, and comparable to this old man Netero who is simply not that tall. I'll be nice and use the average human as well.


Good job cherry picking panels.
169/76 = 2.223684211 cm per pixel
133 * 2.223684211 = 295.7500001cm
Closer to 3.2 than 2.5.
Also colt is closer to the panel than the guards thus he would be bigger. Simple really

4NtkSo6.jpg

KP4Amb1.jpg



Now we
ULYh9ep.png

Meruem: 1.72m/186px
Youpi: 332px = 2.8m.

Again, closer to 2.5 than 3.2. Use Meruem's estimated height by the fandom, 1.69m, then we get something closer to 2.7m

"Nah, why did you-", Youpi's feet were bent down.


Again, Meruem, short king.


You said Meruem unofficial height was 1.69 meters so I will use that.
169/81 = 2.086419753 cm per pixel
2.086419753* 153 = 319.2222222 cm
Once again closer to my value
"Nah, why did you-" Meruem's feet were bent down too
Meruem is 121 pixels whereas Youpi is 206 pixels, meaning Youpi 1.7x taller than Meruem.
K4l454q.png


Thus, 1.72m × 1.7x = 2.9m. This, using 1.72m which is generous for Meruem. Using the estimation, we get 2.8m



Once again using 1.69
169/55 =3.072727273 cm per pixel
3.072727273* 98 =301.1272728 cm
Closer once again
Knuckle ain't particularly tall either. So a generous 1.75m instead of the average 1.72m should be fine.
xmP7dVK.jpg


(209+318+767+223)÷(276+213+390+90) = 1.56x

1.56×1.75 = 2.7m


Yeah, 2.5m is simply more consistent.


Knuckle is constantly portrayed as a pretty tall dude, I will use 6 ft
182.88/633 = 0.2889099526 cm per pixel
0.2889099526* 1044 = 301.6219905 cm
I'm also being generous with the pixel scaling for Knuckle in this image TBH
Again mine is closer




I really don't think I need to explain this one.


Yeah, 3.2 meters is simply more consistent
 


Good job cherry picking panels.
169/76 = 2.223684211 cm per pixel
133 * 2.223684211 = 295.7500001cm
Closer to 3.2 than 2.5.
Also colt is closer to the panel than the guards thus he would be bigger. Simple really.

Colt is not closer to the panel by any means.


You said Meruem unofficial height was 1.69 meters so I will use that.
169/81 = 2.086419753 cm per pixel
2.086419753* 153 = 319.2222222 cm
Once again closer to my value
"Nah, why did you-" Meruem's feet were bent down too.

These don't partake into his height.


Once again using 1.69
169/55 =3.072727273 cm per pixel
3.072727273* 98 =301.1272728 cm
Closer once again.

That's just your terrible pixelscaling at play.


Knuckle is constantly portrayed as a pretty tall dude, I will use 6 ft
182.88/633 = 0.2889099526 cm per pixel
0.2889099526* 1044 = 301.6219905 cm
I'm also being generous with the pixel scaling for Knuckle in this image TBH
Again mine is closer.

Nah, piss off. Either average or slightly above average. You don't just make heights up.
You did it because suddenly

1044/633*172cm = 2.8m

🤡🤡🤡🤡



I really don't think I need to explain this one.


Yeah, 3.2 meters is simply more consistent

Representative panel, they're not actually face to face, so irrelevant.
 
Colt is not closer to the panel by any means.

These don't partake into his height.

That's just your terrible pixelscaling at play.

Nah, piss off. Either average or slightly above average. You don't just make heights up.
You did it because suddenly

1044/633*172cm = 2.8m

🤡🤡🤡🤡

Representative panel, they're not actually face to face, so irrelevant.
Nope, just pixelscaled them right unlike you.
Also how come you get to make up height but not me?
Seems kinda hypocritical.
Infact you want me to correct the last one?
Pretty sure it'd be quite higher then
 


175cm/ 594 = 0.2946127946 per pixel
0.2946127946*1044 = 307.5757576 cm
You're really not helping your case

You might need a circus to accommodate that much goofyness. You're wanking it SEVERELY because your misunderstanding on muscle formation is as great as your insistence on this matter.

Knuckle's not scaled properly, his head is tilted, and you're skipping a lot of his spinal cord.

Funny how you want to use the extended leg when Youpi has a dog-like leg which is bent backwards when he's standing still.
His true height is obviously higher than 2.5m (Extending his back limbs), his actual standing height is 2.5m.

Nope, just pixelscaled them right unlike you.
You quite literally didn't. Especially with the one where Youpi is bending his legs down.
Also how come you get to make up height but not me?
Seems kinda hypocritical.
I used Japanese average values. I didn't make anything up. How annoying. I even acknowledged his slightly taller than average height by giving moderate 3 centimeters over the official average. I didn't pull a value out of my butt.
Infact you want me to correct the last one?
Pretty sure it'd be quite higher then
You're desperate.
 
You might need a circus to accommodate that much goofyness. You're wanking it SEVERELY because your misunderstanding on muscle formation is as great as your insistence on this matter.

Knuckle's not scaled properly, his head is tilted, and you're skipping a lot of his spinal cord.

Funny how you want to use the extended leg when Youpi has a dog-like leg which is bent backwards when he's standing still.
His true height is obviously higher than 2.5m (Extending his back limbs), his actual standing height is 2.5m.


You quite literally didn't. Especially with the one where Youpi is bending his legs down.

I used Japanese average values. I didn't make anything up. How annoying. I even acknowledged his slightly taller than average height by giving moderate 3 centimeters over the official average. I didn't pull a value out of my butt.

You're desperate.
Bud even taking the muscle anatomy into consideration your STILL not getting around 2.5 meters .Not to mention this is the same type of pixel scaling YOU used on knuckle and Youpi so your calling your own pixel scaling faulty, that is peak clown behavior.

You used average values and just decided to add 3 centimeters just because. That is pulling numbers out your ass.
 
Bud even taking the muscle anatomy into consideration your STILL not getting around 2.5 meters .Not to mention this is the same type of pixel scaling YOU used on knuckle and Youpi so your calling your own pixel scaling faulty, that is peak clown behavior.

You used average values and just decided to add 3 centimeters just because. That is pulling numbers out your ass.
I see someone is getting salty over cartoons again.

My pixel was a generosity so you have a chance. The actual height is smaller than most results where the leg is extended, it's usually retracted.

I used 1.72m, then said, "He seems taller than that", then added "less than 1%" above that value. It's an increase.
 
I see someone is getting salty over cartoons again.

My pixel was a generosity so you have a chance. The actual height is smaller than most results where the leg is extended, it's usually retracted.

I used 1.72m, then said, "He seems taller than that", then added "less than 1%" above that value. It's an increase.
The leg I scale uses a straight line and takes into account that there is a curve when standing up. Notice how I go straight to the upper thigh and do not take into account the two joint bend.

The value you added to the 1.72 average is more than 1% so that's wrong as well. Also doesnt change the fact that your adding an arbitrary number that you came up with on your own. I can just as well say that Knuckle is 6 ft with the same amount of certainty that you can say he's 175 cm.
Also debating over the 1 when there's 4 others that prove that youpi's height is closer to 3.2 than to 2.5 isn't helping your case much.
 
By the way I wanna point out that I still find the assumption of the crater depth being 0.25 times the diameter too generous when it's contradicted by every single panel that shows the crater height.
 
The leg I scale uses a straight line and takes into account that there is a curve when standing up. Notice how I go straight to the upper thigh and do not take into account the two joint bend.
And that's factually incorrect, his crater scaling has his joins bent.
The value you added to the 1.72 average is more than 1% so that's wrong as well. Also doesnt change the fact that your adding an arbitrary number that you came up with on your own. I can just as well say that Knuckle is 6 ft with the same amount of certainty that you can say he's 175 cm.
Also debating over the 1 when there's 4 others that prove that youpi's height is closer to 3.2 than to 2.5 isn't helping your case much.
I refuted all 4, so idc.

6ft is pulled out your butt. You use average, if you want to say he seems slightly taller thsn that, then add something in approximation. Approximation works in increments of 5, similar in some degree to our upscaling. (Upscaling from 500 Kt is 550 Kt)
 
And that's factually incorrect, his crater scaling has his joins bent.

I refuted all 4, so idc.

6ft is pulled out your butt. You use average, if you want to say he seems slightly taller thsn that, then add something in approximation. Approximation works in increments of 5, similar in some degree to our upscaling. (Upscaling from 500 Kt is 550 Kt)
Yeah, ok bud all you've done is say "Bad pixel scaling" to discredit my reasoning for 3.2 meter youpi. You have yet to do anything to prove your right.
 
Oh by the way while we are on the topic of discussing current hxh rating I do have some problems with two speed feats being used.

1. Gon blitzing some random dude being mach 5 at the start of greed island

2. Killua being mach 50 at the start of the chimera ant arc.

Neither of these make any sense tbh
 
Oh by the way while we are on the topic of discussing current hxh rating I do have some problems with two speed feats being used.

1. Gon blitzing some random dude being mach 5 at the start of greed island

2. Killua being mach 50 at the start of the chimera ant arc.

Neither of these make any sense tbh
We're not touching speed here, and both of these make sense. "Gap too big" isn't an excuse or a debunk.
 
We're not touching speed here, and both of these make sense. "Gap too big" isn't an excuse or a debunk.
How do these make sense? First is using the 1/220 timeframe and assuming gons assumption of him blitzing his eyes is correct although we have no reason to believe this.
The Second one doesn't even begin to make sense too. It assumes that

1. Killua lightning is real lightning at lightning speed despite being produced by nen

2. His movement was fifnished the very moment the lightning touched the ground without lingering for any longer.

3. His lightning followed his movements. We have no reason to assume that the feat happened the way he described it. He assumes that the lightning follows his hand rotation and shot off at the moment his hand was at a certain point. This is baseless
 
How do these make sense? First is using the 1/220 timeframe and assuming gons assumption of him blitzing his eyes is correct although we have no reason to believe this.
Nen users are several tiers above humans at their peak. 1/220 is fair.
The Second one doesn't even begin to make sense too. It assumes that

1. Killua lightning is real lightning at lightning speed despite being produced by nen.
It is real lightning, it's literally charged by real electricity and transmutation changes Nen into anything. Combine that with the fact that Nen can literally create anything with Conjuration or Transmutation and it's indistinguishable from their original counterparts, and this point becomes silly.
2. His movement was fifnished the very moment the lightning touched the ground without lingering for any longer.
It happened in the same panel, both movement happened in the very same panel. They share the same timeframe.
3. His lightning followed his movements. We have no reason to assume that the feat happened the way he described it. He assumes that the lightning follows his hand rotation and shot off at the moment his hand was at a certain point. This is baseless
Point 3 is literally just point 2 worded differently.

Also "gap too big" is an excuse. Its called an outlier when that happens
You have no idea what an outlier even is apparently.

First off, Start of GI Gon is "far above Mach 4.9", we upscale to Mach 5 because it's the closest value.

Second, Gon and Killua trained for several weeks on end. Before their training, Killua was getting nearly speedblitzed by an extremely injured Binolt, and Killua was far faster than Gon before they trained. He could barely move a few centimeters tondodge before Binolt made a full swing, the 9.8 times gap is justified by this alone.
Binolt at full health was slower than Post-training Gon and Killua.


Now I ask, outlier of what? It contradicts what?


1) It's a big jump in speed? Yes.

2) It's an extraordinary occurance? It's around the level of other feats, so no.

3) It's unjustified? I already proved it wasn't.

4) It breaks powerscaling? No, God Tier are 4x faster.

5) It breaks narrative? It has no reason to.
 
Nen users are several tiers above humans at their peak. 1/220 is fair.

It is real lightning, it's literally charged by real electricity and transmutation changes Nen into anything. Combine that with the fact that Nen can literally create anything with Conjuration or Transmutation and it's indistinguishable from their original counterparts, and this point becomes silly.

It happened in the same panel, both movement happened in the very same panel. They share the same timeframe.

Point 3 is literally just point 2 worded differently.


You have no idea what an outlier even is apparently.

First off, Start of GI Gon is "far above Mach 4.9", we upscale to Mach 5 because it's the closest value.

Second, Gon and Killua trained for several weeks on end. Before their training, Killua was getting nearly speedblitzed by an extremely injured Binolt, and Killua was far faster than Gon before they trained. He could barely move a few centimeters tondodge before Binolt made a full swing, the 9.8 times gap is justified by this alone.
Binolt at full health was slower than Post-training Gon and Killua.


Now I ask, outlier of what? It contradicts what?


1) It's a big jump in speed? Yes.

2) It's an extraordinary occur ance? It's around the level of other feats, so no.

3) It's unjustified? I already proved it wasn't.

4) It breaks powerscaling? No, God Tier are 4x faster.

5) It breaks narrative? It has no reason to.
1. The 1/220 timeframe isn't used anymore

2. Being charged by electricity only means he can refuel his nen with it. Doesn't mean HIS lightning is real lightning

3. Your point doesn't discredit mine in the slightest. For all we know his movement and the lightning being present is at the same panel. Doesn't mean the lightning barely touched the ground the moment the movement was done. It's obviously a longer lasting attack that takes effect on rammot.

4. No it isn't. What I mean is that the assumption the lightning was shot of the moment his arms crossed a certain distance is baseless.

5. Already explained that he isn't mach 5 and damage seems to agree on the misuse of that timeframe. And yes beginning of greed island being 10 times lower than beginning of chimera ant arc seems like an outlier. Even disregarding the fact that none of these calcs make any sense to begin with.

6. Yes it is an unnatural occurrence. We have people like cheetu being mach 20 when he blitzes knuckle. A person far superior to Stadt of ca arc killua. It's not even a small jump.
And God tiers like pitou are like 2 times faster than that despite blitzing him from km away.
 
1. The 1/220 timeframe isn't used anymore.
I could not care less. It's not my calc, I simply agree 1/220 is fair for superhumans who can see normal humans like slowpokes.
2. Being charged by electricity only means he can refuel his nen with it. Doesn't mean HIS lightning is real lightning
You ignored the entire argument of how Transmutation is literally stated to transform Nen into the element. Being charged by electricity means he needs real electricity to use his electric attacks. Refilling NEN with Electricity? So you're saying his Nen is actual electricity, then? Since that's the only way it could be refilled? Works for me.

The Transmutation Category is accepted as the actual Transmutation hax. It's electricity, and that's the end of the story. Stop complaining if all you're going to do is ignore what is said to you while providing no counter.
3. Your point doesn't discredit mine in the slightest. For all we know his movement and the lightning being present is at the same panel. Doesn't mean the lightning barely touched the ground the moment the movement was done. It's obviously a longer lasting attack that takes effect on rammot.
"It's obviously-",
It's nothing. It's not obviously nothing. We don't know anything about the timeframe in the particular panel, so "for all we know" is invalid, because we only know what we see.

Killua's movement started and finished in one panel. The lightning was seen to flee his fingertips more than halfway through the arc he makes. Both the lightning and his movement end in the very same panel.


That's it. It's literally all we see. The calc doesn't contradict or assume anything.
4. No it isn't. What I mean is that the assumption the lightning was shot of the moment his arms crossed a certain distance is baseless.
It isn't, literally look at the panel.
5. Already explained that he isn't mach 5 and damage seems to agree on the misuse of that timeframe. And yes beginning of greed island being 10 times lower than beginning of chimera ant arc seems like an outlier. Even disregarding the fact that none of these calcs make any sense to begin with.
You quite literally ignored my debunk of said notion. They trained, got so fast they could speedblitz themselves.

I have satisfied the burden of proof, either stop claiming it's an outlier, or counter with sufficient evidence. What you personally think is not relevant to how Hunter x Hunter is set on this wiki.
6. Yes it is an unnatural occurrence. We have people like cheetu being mach 20 when he blitzes knuckle. A person far superior to Stadt of ca arc killua. It's not even a small jump.
And God tiers like pitou are like 2 times faster than that despite blitzing him from km away.
You are being willingly ignorant by a margin so high I could believe you're trolling.

Even if it was an unnatural occurance, it still would not qualify as an outlier FRA.

First, Cheetu is not Mach 20. That's his speed while almost napping while dodging bullets (which are underestimated by a lot too, cop guns are much faster than 330m/s), his true speed is several times faster.

Second, don't use the gap in calculations as evidence of objective speedblitzing gaps in the narrative. Togashi doesn't use fan calculations to think about his speed feats. Pitou speedblitzed a Hypersonic hunter from thousands of kilometers.
The calculation assumes Gon's reactions are just peak human as a low end. So she isn't even just 2x faster than Gon, it's likely several times that value.

You are being quite annoying with these needless lines of questioning, they ignore counters I've already provided. Your personal opinion holds no weight on this debate, if you don't provide a valid reasoning to invalidate Killua's speed feat, I will shut down this conversation immediately
 
I could not care less. It's not my calc, I simply agree 1/220 is fair for superhumans who can see normal humans like slowpokes.

You ignored the entire argument of how Transmutation is literally stated to transform Nen into the element. Being charged by electricity means he needs real electricity to use his electric attacks. Refilling NEN with Electricity? So you're saying his Nen is actual electricity, then? Since that's the only way it could be refilled? Works for me.

The Transmutation Category is accepted as the actual Transmutation hax. It's electricity, and that's the end of the story. Stop complaining if all you're going to do is ignore what is said to you while providing no counter.

"It's obviously-",
It's nothing. It's not obviously nothing. We don't know anything about the timeframe in the particular panel, so "for all we know" is invalid, because we only know what we see.

Killua's movement started and finished in one panel. The lightning was seen to flee his fingertips more than halfway through the arc he makes. Both the lightning and his movement end in the very same panel.


That's it. It's literally all we see. The calc doesn't contradict or assume anything.

It isn't, literally look at the panel.

You quite literally ignored my debunk of said notion. They trained, got so fast they could speedblitz themselves.

I have satisfied the burden of proof, either stop claiming it's an outlier, or counter with sufficient evidence. What you personally think is not relevant to how Hunter x Hunter is set on this wiki.

You are being willingly ignorant by a margin so high I could believe you're trolling.

Even if it was an unnatural occurance, it still would not qualify as an outlier FRA.

First, Cheetu is not Mach 20. That's his speed while almost napping while dodging bullets (which are underestimated by a lot too, cop guns are much faster than 330m/s), his true speed is several times faster.

Second, don't use the gap in calculations as evidence of objective speedblitzing gaps in the narrative. Togashi doesn't use fan calculations to think about his speed feats. Pitou speedblitzed a Hypersonic hunter from thousands of kilometers.
The calculation assumes Gon's reactions are just peak human as a low end. So she isn't even just 2x faster than Gon, it's likely several times that value.

You are being quite annoying with these needless lines of questioning, they ignore counters I've already provided. Your personal opinion holds no weight on this debate, if you don't provide a valid reasoning to invalidate Killua's speed feat, I will shut down this conversation immediately
You insisted 1/220 was a fair timeframe for being peak human fps. After being told it isn't used in the wiki you keep being ignorant and insisting its a fair timeframe for other reasons. It isn't and assuming it is just cause it's a person in greed island is again baseless speculation. You also ignored the fact that we have no reason to assume he blitzed his eyes in the first place other than gon saying he did it himself. Weak argument.

2. By the same logic we could apply the real properties of electricity to almost any electricity user.
Him charging with electricity doesn't mean he uses electricity. Your headcanon isn't proving anything.

3. Yes, obviously. Lightning does not instantly disappear the moment it touches the ground especially in fiction where lightning attacks are mostly long lasting up to several seconds. Burden of proof is on you that the lightning only then reached the ground.

4. Again you are simply ASSUMING it left killua fingertips at that moment with no Basis whatsoever. All we know is what we are shown. It's that his fingers are pointing down and his lightning is shot. You imagination of his movement is not proof of anything. It's again just your headcanon and how you imagine the movement

5. They trained so thats a justification of scaling 10 times higher than a pervious key which already uses an outdated timeframe?

And regulation stops the calcs from using any reasonable timeframe outside of "human level". Yeah, yeah, I see how it is.
What are you even trying to say with this? We have values like peak human reaction time that we use over random reaction times pulled outta nowhere. Just because this person is an above average human doesn't mean it's justified to use an unaccepted timeframe for the feat.
 
We have values like peak human reaction time that we use over random reaction times pulled outta nowhere. Just because this person is an above average human doesn't mean it's justified to use an unaccepted timeframe for the feat.
I do just wanna clarify that 1/220 seconds is the reaction time for fighter pilots, meaning that would theoretically still be below supernatural creatures. Personally I don't get why it's being removed, I think it's perfectly valid, but I did just wanna give that context. It's not pulled out of nowhere.
 
I do just wanna clarify that 1/220 seconds is the reaction time for fighter pilots, meaning that would theoretically still be below supernatural creatures. Personally I don't get why it's being removed, I think it's perfectly valid, but I did just wanna give that context. It's not pulled out of nowhere.
It's not reaction time it's the timeframe at which pilots perceive a flash in a dark room while also being prepared to do so. It's pretty reasonable to remove it
 
You insisted 1/220 was a fair timeframe for being peak human fps. After being told it isn't used in the wiki you keep being ignorant and insisting its a fair timeframe for other reasons. It isn't and assuming it is just cause it's a person in greed island is again baseless speculation. You also ignored the fact that we have no reason to assume he blitzed his eyes in the first place other than gon saying he did it himself. Weak argument.
Gon said he did, thus he did it.
End of story. Exposition is delivered through dialogue. Characters are not real people, if a writer gives a line to a character that gives information about a situation, that line is to be believed unless contradicted.

I also need to point out how the hunter had no idea where Gon went even after the fact. He didn't register anything.


2. By the same logic we could apply the real properties of electricity to almost any electricity user.
Him charging with electricity doesn't mean he uses electricity. Your headcanon isn't proving anything.
At this point, I'll just tell you to piss off.

Killua's electricity is fed on real electricity. It comes from a magic system that is capable of creating virtually anything and creating properties. Has shown the same properties as electricity by making muscles contract against stronger characters.

These are all facts. Again, if you just ignore it, and say it's headcanon, I'll again tell you to piss off
3. Yes, obviously. Lightning does not instantly disappear the moment it touches the ground especially in fiction where lightning attacks are mostly long lasting up to several seconds. Burden of proof is on you that the lightning only then reached the ground.
It's not. We see it leaving Killua's finger and reaching the ground as Killua is moving. It's what we see.

It didn't even ricochet off the ground like such thick lightning would. Nah.
4. Again you are simply ASSUMING it left killua fingertips at that moment with no Basis whatsoever.
Look at the DAMN panel.
U0FYSZH.jpg

I literally lost my composure because you state such stupidities with confidence.
He launches it like a spear, winding up and launching it downwards.
When you claim something as silly as this, you HAVE to question yourself: "What's the alternative?"

Did he create the arc, and then the lightning came out on command? Killua literally doesn't have the kind of control to do something like that. Nor does he have a reason, it would be less effective as a quick surprise attack. He threw it like one'd throw a baseball. It left at the point it's shown to leave.

Cease and Desist.
5. They trained so thats a justification of scaling 10 times higher than a pervious key which already uses an outdated timeframe?
YES.
IT IS.

You cannot claim the value contradicts ANYTHING. You simply have no argument here. They trained to the point their previous speed was outclassed, they can scale to whatever feat they perform unless it breaks powerscaling.
What are you even trying to say with this? We have values like peak human reaction time that we use over random reaction times pulled outta nowhere. Just because this person is an above average human doesn't mean it's justified to use an unaccepted timeframe for the feat.
"unaccepted"? Even when a character stated to have a certain reaction, it's CONTROVERSIAL to use higher timeframes. Didn't the Garou feat have a ton of debate over using canonical reactions?
The reaction page has several values, accepted ones too. Hunters are shown to be faster than the eye consistently, yet using anything beyond peak human is prohibited?

Stop clinging on the regulation's standards. Peak Human is obviously downplaying.
 
It's not reaction time it's the timeframe at which pilots perceive a flash in a dark room while also being prepared to do so. It's pretty reasonable to remove it
It's perception speed. If one's perception is blitzed and they're super human, it should be used.
 
Please keep things civil. Even if they’re saying what you perceive to be the absolute dumbest things in existence with utter confidence, you’re not making things better by lashing out
 
Gon said he did, thus he did it.
End of story. Exposition is delivered through dialogue. Characters are not real people, if a writer gives a line to a character that gives information about a situation, that line is to be believed unless contradicted.

I also need to point out how the hunter had no idea where Gon went even after the fact. He didn't register anything.



At this point, I'll just tell you to piss off.

Killua's electricity is fed on real electricity. It comes from a magic system that is capable of creating virtually anything and creating properties. Has shown the same properties as electricity by making muscles contract against stronger characters.

These are all facts. Again, if you just ignore it, and say it's headcanon, I'll again tell you to piss off

It's not. We see it leaving Killua's finger and reaching the ground as Killua is moving. It's what we see.

It didn't even ricochet off the ground like such thick lightning would. Nah.

Look at the DAMN panel.
U0FYSZH.jpg

I literally lost my composure because you state such stupidities with confidence.
He launches it like a spear, winding up and launching it downwards.
When you claim something as silly as this, you HAVE to question yourself: "What's the alternative?"

Did he create the arc, and then the lightning came out on command? Killua literally doesn't have the kind of control to do something like that. Nor does he have a reason, it would be less effective as a quick surprise attack. He threw it like one'd throw a baseball. It left at the point it's shown to leave.

Cease and Desist.

YES.
IT IS.

You cannot claim the value contradicts ANYTHING. You simply have no argument here. They trained to the point their previous speed was outclassed, they can scale to whatever feat they perform unless it breaks powerscaling.

"unaccepted"? Even when a character stated to have a certain reaction, it's CONTROVERSIAL to use higher timeframes. Didn't the Garou feat have a ton of debate over using canonical reactions?
The reaction page has several values, accepted ones too. Hunters are shown to be faster than the eye consistently, yet using anything beyond peak human is prohibited?

Stop clinging on the regulation's standards. Peak Human is obviously downplaying.
1. No. It's simply not. You again have no proof for saying gons stateme t is any credible. Just saying togashi Confirms it with a character statement is yet again pulled out of your ass dude.

2. Again that's baseless. You THINKING he did it a certain way doesn't mean ANYTHING. The alternative is that he did point downward with his finger than released thr attack as is usual for aiming at certain areas or that the lightning simply lasted for a certain period after it shot of at this point. You are again just assuming killua doesn't have control over that. It's simply your interpretation of the feat.

3. But they aren't just 10 times over their prior rating. The mach 5 feat is literally unusable due to an unaccepted timeframe man. Saying it is an outlier is simply backup to the main argument that the feat in question has no reason to assume it is real lightning just cause it comes from a transmute or that the panel displays the very moment it hit the ground.

4. The peak human timeframe was disregarded in many calcs of higher scaling characters due to the things I already listed above. Of you want to complain about it Complain to the people in charge for said change.

5. Peak human is not downplaying in the slightest. Mainly because that's a timeframe that wouldn't be applied to a peak human. What do you even try to suggest? That we should use random values simply for the sake of them being peak human?

You are getting weirdly offended from this man and even started using insults. It's honestly tiring to talk to people like you knowing that that's the reaction you get for simply stating your opinion.
 
1. No. It's simply not. You again have no proof for saying gons stateme t is any credible. Just saying togashi Confirms it with a character statement is yet again pulled out of your ass dude.
And you've devolved into the point where you just say "No.", and think that's a counter.

As long as this concept exists, I don't wanna hear you: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Exposition
2. Again that's baseless.
It's not. Killua is incapable of manipulating his electricity kinetically.
You are again just assuming killua doesn't have control over that. It's simply your interpretation of the feat.
One cannot assume a negative.
Killua has never shown to be able to control his electricity remotely, or kinetically. He just generates it and releases it in a discharge.

The negative is always correct unless proven wrong. If you want to argue your alternative, prove he is manipulating it in this way never seen before.
3. But they aren't just 10 times over their prior rating. The mach 5 feat is literally unusable due to an unaccepted timeframe man. Saying it is an outlier is simply backup to the main argument that the feat in question has no reason to assume it is real lightning just cause it comes from a transmute or that the panel displays the very moment it hit the ground.
Outlier is not an argument. You have been debunked on that particular note in three different messages. You will stand down on that point immediately.

The feat is not an outlier. You have been unable to argue, create critical thinking, any sort of logic explanation, to even suggest the feat is an outlier. If you just go and try to tell me again the feat is an outlier, I will ignore it.

Also, "no reason to believe it's real lightning"? I give up.
You are getting weirdly offended from this man and even started using insults. It's honestly tiring to talk to people like you knowing that that's the reaction you get for simply stating your opinion.
You're insistent and refuse to consider the opposition's arguments while not providing your own. It's easy to see why I'd be upset about having to repeat myself several times. You're not stating your opinion, you're deliberately spreading misinformation, you're erratic, irrational, refuses to fabricate any sort of logical bridge between your premises and your conclusion, continues to repeat yourself about topics I've already debunked - which you never reply to.



We are not touching Killua's feat. We currently accept it as real lightning for the gargantuan amount of evidence I have stated. (Proven by other users in past threads, I reckon). I might do something about Gon's Mach 5 feat later, I probably can get upscaling by using Kurapika's chain feat anyway so the value won't change.
 
And you've devolved into the point where you just say "No.", and think that's a counter.

As long as this concept exists, I don't wanna hear you: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Exposition

It's not. Killua is incapable of manipulating his electricity kinetically.

One cannot assume a negative.
Killua has never shown to be able to control his electricity remotely, or kinetically. He just generates it and releases it in a discharge.

The negative is always correct unless proven wrong. If you want to argue your alternative, prove he is manipulating it in this way never seen before.

Outlier is not an argument. You have been debunked on that particular note in three different messages. You will stand down on that point immediately.

The feat is not an outlier. You have been unable to argue, create critical thinking, any sort of logic explanation, to even suggest the feat is an outlier. If you just go and try to tell me again the feat is an outlier, I will ignore it.

Also, "no reason to believe it's real lightning"? I give up.

You're insistent and refuse to consider the opposition's arguments while not providing your own. It's easy to see why I'd be upset about having to repeat myself several times. You're not stating your opinion, you're deliberately spreading misinformation, you're erratic, irrational, refuses to fabricate any sort of logical bridge between your premises and your conclusion, continues to repeat yourself about topics I've already debunked - which you never reply to.



We are not touching Killua's feat. We currently accept it as real lightning for the gargantuan amount of evidence I have stated. (Proven by other users in past threads, I reckon). I might do something about Gon's Mach 5 feat later, I probably can get upscaling by using Kurapika's chain feat anyway so the value won't change.
1. Because you can't prove that gons statement is just that. Simply saying something is is also not an argument. You say yourself that the negative is always correct so why should we ASSUME it Isa truthfully statement when it's a statement from a characters that shouldn't be able to judge it.

2. I didnt mean to say he controls his electricity kinetically but I don't need to even assume that. Literally in the panels prior he creates these arc without having to follow them with his fingers. There is no assumption in that case because it's literally shown he doesn't have to follow those arcs for them to exist in the panels literally prior to this. These arcs are just a stylistic choice of togashi. You also don't have any reason to assume the movement of killua was finished the very moment the electricity hit the ground rather than the split second timeframe the lightning lasts on rammot. Even assuming a splitsecond for a lightning based attack on fiction is generous. They tend to last seconds.

3. The argument "they trained" would be at least enough to make accept the change in speed by 10-fold while still not being sold on it. But it's not even a 10 times jump. Its a bigger jump then that. The gon feat simply uses an outdated timeframe that was removed from calcs of higher ranking characters even. They scale a much much higher distance than just 10 fold by mere training.

4. I will repeat myself on this point again. It stunning opponents is the only real argument you have for real lightning. Him being able to charge his nen with electricity and transmitting his nen into electricity is not at all proof that his nen electricity is real.

You say I am ignorant when you come of to me as the same. You are just as unwilling to change your opinion if not more. You fought back against even changing gons feat for being outdated and you started to be aggressive simply cause I pointed out potential flaws in a calculation. Where did I spread misinformation?

Also the calc has some weird pixelscaling for the lightning too.
 
Guys, the speed tiers are irrelevant to this thread as is. A different thread should be made for that. And regardless, you both need to stop antagonizing each other like this
 
So have there been any useful conclusions regarding what we should do here?

Also, any hostility here should stop, yes.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top