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This should be the current vote count on who agrees with the upgrade in general.
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A Certain Llama Wants In On The Low 1-C club; Pokemon Low 1-C Upgrade for True Form Arceus
- Thread starter ProfessorKukui4Life
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Read after it and you will understand.
F&Q? and I have already said I don't know much about that mouse, so bringing it here would be useless. I just mentioned that if it is the "sole" reason it has 5d, it should be downgraded.
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I- that scares me...
Jibz
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take my name off thanks, im still a lil iffy on this
Pikaman
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34 members and 6 staff, can we start arguing about stuff other than whether this is valid and move into stuff like possibly vs outright please?
Pikaman
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Then do that, until you do, your arguments here are moot because precedent is against you
CosmicWreck
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Yeah, no. I'm sorry. You are right now admitting this is based on completely head canon and considering you continue with this baseless assumption, I'll just say I disagree here and reply to the comments that actually bring something new to the table.
Again, you are missing my point. This feat is no different than punching holes into universes or screaming portals into existence. The most you can do is scale Arceus to Hoopa with this argument, which as you already admitted, doesn't make sense to do since he's already vastly superior.
It was literally never said that there was an exact amount of energy needed to rip open holes in their realms.
Since any tier 2 character is by definition superior to standard space-time I have no idea why you think this is anything impressive. Also, you know infinite power stops meaning anything at High 3-A right?
Er...no. As long as it has a space-time continuum then it is a 4-D object (length, width, height and time or up-down, left-right,forward-back and backward-forward in time). It is the reason why we literally equated such feats to High 3-A automatically once upon a time.
First of all, depends on what you mean by dimension. Mathematically you can easily create a space that contains a fractional dimension, especially if fractals are involved.
Second of all, I don't really see where I even implied there being half a dimension tbh.
Sure, I kind of meant the depiction in the twelfth movie where it was shown the realms of the god tiers are above the usual Pokemon Universe (with the Pokemon Universe being later revealed to be a Multiverse in and of itself). I didn't mean they're in different cosmologies.
My guy, you quoted me. Of course I responded, you need to specifically indicate that you are talking to other people otherwise I would literally wonder what you're saying has to do with me.
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Damn man, been quite a while since I have seen such a hypocritical statement. if you have read my arguments properly, you should know who has to change the current ratings for their argument to be valid enough.
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Then do lmfao, otherwise stop whining here.
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Pokémon became the new Dragon Ball guys, the new verse which makes the standards change because people don't like characters being of a certain tier.
Double standards everywhere smh.
Double standards everywhere smh.
Pikaman
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Also off topic but I love your pfp is that official K1-B0 art? I’ve never seen it elsewhere
Hasty12345
Username Only- 5,350
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Agree: (40) @QuasiYuri, @Psychomaster35, @DarkDragonMedeus, @Maverick_Zero_X, @CloverDragon03, @The real cal howard, @StrymULTRA, @Bernkastelll, @ActuallySpaceMan, @Noneless21 @Problemexe, @Yemma670, @OnsokunoSonic, @Rendynoc0unter, @DigiAnymore, @CosmicWreck, @RM97, @BlackDarkness679, @DaReaperMan, @Arthex, @XXKINGXX69, @theultimate5105, @Arceus0x, @Pikaman, @The_Pink_God, @TheDivineHost, @Rikimarox2, @Veloxt1r0kore, @Jibz, @Zencha9, @NeoZex6399, @NIK_FARIS, @The_Axiom_of_Virgo, @Milly_Rocking_Bandit, @Thelastmlg, @Rez, @y3p_owo, @ShadowWarrior1999, @JooCipher
Who's everyone?
Jamesthetaker
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How come this ended up a ranting thread?
You guys literally should stop derailing the thread if you wanted this revision to go through.
You guys literally should stop derailing the thread if you wanted this revision to go through.
Pikaman
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You get what I mean, there’s a lot of unjustified opposition and people peddling points that have been debunked 10 times over, sorry if I made a bit of a generalisation
Jibz
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stop victimising yourselves, its extremely cringe and incredibly off topic. Go complain in the discussion thread, not this crt.
Pikaman
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Agreed tbf, just annoying to see this kinda stuff in what should be an open shut case
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- Thread starter
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Cool, so again for the upteenth time, get him downgraded and change the standards then before using this as a reason here. Cuz as long as characters like Archie are Low 1-C without needing to prove infinite transcendence, "uncountable infinite superiority" isnt a requirement. Simple as that.
Except, it is different. Hoopa's rings use infinite power and can, by force, connect to higher dimensions. That is absolutely not the same thing as screaming portals into existence or punching a hole to another universe.
And the purpose of mentioning the rings, again, isnt to give a tier for them. Its to compare the dimensions that the rings can open and the dimension that they can't open.
Blatant nitpicking. It doesn't need to be said what exact level of energy is needed, the only thing needed is the proof that an incredible level of energy is required to open portals to their dimensions. That is literally the point here.
And that said proof comes by taking the fact that Hoopa used its rings to forcibly summon the legendaries it did in Clash in Ages, including the Creation Trio. Meaning? It forcibly connected to their dimensions with infinitely powered rings. This is not hard to understand.
Uh, what? This...isn't a thing at all. Tier 2 characters aren't "superior" to space-time, they just simply affect space-time on a universal+ scale, obviously not having anything to do with transcendence.
Yes? Doesn't knock away my point on the superiority being infinite. It doesnt matter if it doesnt mean anything past High 3-A when Hoopas part of this isnt to tier Hoopa above High 3-A.
And a space-time continuum isnt a pocket dimension. It's a unverse. An entire timeline.
Not really. There's no such thing as "half" 3-D space, "half" 4-D space and up. Hell, no such thing as "half" a universe either barring obviously pocket dimensions (which are unquantifiable without some kind of known size).
You implied this with the "bigger than 4-D" point.
The quotes say the name of who we respond to.
Pikaman
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Because I m not the one trying to say that simply being a bit above 4d is 5d or that a bigger 4d dosent except for anything except 5d.
You know there is a famous line for this,
"Extraordinary Claims require Extraordinary Evidence."
What I am saying, is from what I have seen many staffs accept. If you have enough evidence to prove your claims, show it.
You have been repeating the same for 10 years and say I m annoying when I do the same?
I m sorry, no extremely sorry for derailing the thread. Its just the fact some "claims" being made here that are not accepted in any form or way annoy me.
Hasty12345
Username Only- 5,350
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I wouldn't call it "unjustified opposition" when one of the continued arguments for low 1-C Arceus is "go downgrade Archie then"
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Nah is from Yumarumaruyuma, a notorious chibi Danganronpa artist.
Tho I agree that we should stop repeating in loop the same shit.
When the argument is the same, and for a verse is good but another is not, then it raises suspects.
Regardless I'm gonna stop arguing and wait for more staff, we got more agreeing than disagreeing anyway.
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W̶e̶l̶c̶o̶m̶e̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶c̶l̶u̶b̶,̶ ̶P̶o̶k̶e̶m̶o̶n̶ ̶f̶a̶n̶s̶!
Anyways, I'm leaning towards agreeing to a likely or possibly, since I'm not completely up to date on the current set standards and whether defined infinite superiority is required for Tier 1
- 16,963
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- Thread starter
- #346
Yeah lets please cut out the side off topic talk so we dont clutter this thread up anymore. We should wait to see if Ultima himself will respond here.
In the meantime i'll add his discord comment on Low 1-C Arceus to the thread.
In the meantime i'll add his discord comment on Low 1-C Arceus to the thread.
CosmicWreck
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Since when are the realms of the Creation trio higher dimensions? You are now literally derailing this thread.
Also, higher dimensions or not, simply opening portals into it would just count as interdimensional (or higher dimensional) range. It has never been significant.
Except there's never been a correlation between the universes.
A point that can reach a wide range of values. It's a point that doesn't support anything.
Okay, so? Literally all portals do that, Hoopa just so happened to have infinitely powered rings. Again, it doesn't matter.
I never said it had anything to do with transcendence.
Space-time is influenced influenced by things like mass, energy and gravity. Just like the busting feats of any of the lower cosmological 3-D structures, it kind of needs a set amount of energy. You can be equal or superior to the cosmological structure to be able to significantly effect it. We just don't know what that energy is, since the object involved becomes measured in uncountable infinities from our perspective.
You are confusing superiority with transcendence. They are not even remotely the same, where you can transcend a universe without being superior to it (usually by being able to travel the timeline) or simply existing outside it. Or any 4D structures. Context is important dude.
Even with infinite power Hoopa was only able to effect an insignificant portion of the realms. That is not nearly enough evidence to deduce that anyone is 'infinitely superior' to anything.
A space-time continuum can be anything. It's just conglomeration of dimensions, just like almost any other object.
Sorry, whether geometry (look up fractional spaces), mathematically (fractals) or fiction (Marvel's Cosmology) you are completely wrong.
I'm not as tall as the door but that doesn't mean my height is a fraction. I could just be 5'0. I don't understand how that at all implies anything.
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Uhm. Giratina IS the Distortion World, which is equal to the multiverse in size. And all the realms are the same due to hierarcy state in multiverse.
But this is not about Creation Trio. If you disagree with them make a CRT about them,
CosmicWreck
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First of all, the Pokemon multiverse which is only infinite 4-D, unless you're arguing that because Palkia is all directions and thus including time, then time is also the fifth dimension which is circular and makes no sense.
You guys realize our world is 4-D right? 4-D is not a higher dimension (or at least, not when compared to what I'm clearly referring to, which is a normal space-time continuum).
Second of all, we don't acccept the Creation Trio to be 5-D. Why do I need to make a CRT for something we don't accept?
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You said those aren't higher D, and somehow implied they're 3D sooooo.
CosmicWreck
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Right, I forgot the Pokemon multiverse was actually flat.
I literally just explained what I'm comparing it to, a normal space-time continuum. Context should have dictated I obviously did not mean it was 3-D.
I literally just explained what I'm comparing it to, a normal space-time continuum. Context should have dictated I obviously did not mean it was 3-D.
CosmicWreck
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That the Hoopa argument is meaningless and shouldn't be considered as supporting evidence, basically.
Lou_change
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People didn’t see a problem earlier but we now know a contradiction that makes it unclear if this is even using acceptable logic I don’t care if sonic was it might be a problem I wasn’t there to point it out and likely the others weren’t either. You clogging the thread is preventing progress in that field as for some reason a separate thread hasn’t been made for it.
Lou_change
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The tiering system and FAQ disagree to summarize.
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- Thread starter
- #359
Define "a lot" because literally only like 2 or 3 people here dont understand it while most of us who actually paid attention to the thread understand it nicely.
Anyway
Strym already bothered to respond to this beyond obvious point, so im not going any further than this.
But the important part that actually matters for this discussion, which you still can't seem to understand, is the method in which Hoopa opens portals into them, using it's infinitely powered rings, to forcibly connect to them.
FORCIBLY
And it is damning, since the Red Chain is the only otherwise known thing that has the power to open portals to the Creation Trios dimensions naturally. Hoopas Rings don't have anything to do with their realms, so it's rings are forcing portals to connect to them, rings that possess infinite power. So we know from this confirmation that Hoopa's rings can interact with 4-D Dimensions. It doesn't matter if its adding more range or not, the interactions is the only thing that matters as supporting evidence.
But when those said rings become useless against Arceus, there is. The correlation comes from this.
No they don't lmao. The Red Chain naturally has the innate ability to open portals to their realms. And it's obvious on why, because it's using Arceus's powers, which have a blatant connection to the Creation Trio. This is why it was an explicit requirement for Cyrus use the red chain to call them forth.
Hoopa's Rings are ordinary portals in space-time without any relationship to the god tiers like that, so it needed to forcibly draw the creation trio forth when summoning them through the rings. Why do you think space-time got ****** up in the Clash of Ages as a repercussion of the rings doing that?
So what was the point in bringing that up in the first place? You obviously knew what I meant by "superior" when I said being superior to infinite power that interacts with 4-D space-time, in the context of transcendence.
Yes, but your forgetting Arceus making the rings flat out useless. THAT is what should deduce infinite superiority, FOR Arceus's realm.
I hope I don't need to seriously try explaining why a smaller than universal scale space-time is not considered a space-time continuum. Because we are using the wikia's definition of it, that a space-time continuum is a whole timeline. Not a pocket dimension.
Show me a single part of Marvels cosmology having a "half" of a dimension please.
This is the last i'll be speaking on Hoopa, cuz all this derailing over what's only supposed to be supporting evidence, and not a main justification for Low 1-C, is cluttering the thread. If you disagree, agree to disagree.
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