8-B Tournament Round 1, Match 9: Kenshin Himura vs Kamen Rider Ixa

[Jamesthetaker]

Hmm, this Ixa is summoned by Diend instead so he could possibly scales to orginal counterparts.

 

[MagiSinbad]

Well, until my arguement is debunked, my vote goes to Ixa.

 

[Jamesthetaker]

So i've checked some of Kenshin feats, it's quite interesting:

Apparently, robots isn't completely out of place in Rurouni Kenshin and Kenshin actually fought one himself. He was able to block a robot by targeting its joint and heavily damage its despite the shock absorption and sword-resistant armor. There is also one where he cut fuses of multiple bombs and block whirlwind attacks

This come up with a possibility that Kenshin could target the gaps of Ixa suit or where is least protection. This is my speculation but i believe Kenshin can still react even if he got blinded because there are many instances where Kenshin react to enemy faster than him or night-invisible attack, with his set of skills i don't think he will be defenseless entirely. Just like i said before, heat/light are still lethal to Kenshin nonetheless. He could possibly deflect bullets and heat blast albeit with difficulty but if he don't finishes Ixa fast then he will end up a char coal soon.

I will wait one day more to see if Naitodesu will come up for Kenshin because i don't want to took his chance in the tournament so quickly.

 

[IxaSaga2]

I don't think Kenshin can finish off Ixa quickly. The skill difference isn't that big for Kenshin to beat him quickly. Remember Ixa is trained to fight Fangire, a demon race that drove 12 other demon races to extinction, and has been fighting wars for centuries. Ixa in occasions fought multiple at once and by the end, he was able to beat one of the most skilled Fangires (Bishop) while he was blind.

That and the fact that Ixa's transformation to burst mode already makes an explosive aura type attack by default.

 

[MagiSinbad]

About the react to attacks that faster than yourself feat, i think Ixa's feat is still much better.

While the gap between Kenshin and Seta is subsonic and supersonic+, the gap between a normal fighter like Ixa and Clock-Up user like Kabuto is superhuman and Sub-Relativistic.

Not to mention, even if Kenshin can deflect Ixa's bullets, he gonna do it with great difficulty because the gun can do rapid fires and bullets can accurately hit the weakpoints that got analyzed by Analyze Eyes. (most of enemies cant even avoid Ixa's gun, except Wataru, who already got hit a shitton of time by it before)

And Nago is someone that doesnt like to waste time, so i can see him aim at Kenshin's hand to disarm his sword, then attacks with Ixa Calibur and finishes Kenshin with Soul Destruction.

Edit : i just rewatched some scene of Kiva again, Ixa dont seem disarm opponent weapons much. But he did steal Garuru Saber from Kiva to beat the hell out of him. Does that count?

 

[RandomGuy2345]

2 for Ixa iirc.

 

[IxaSaga2]

Edit : i just rewatched some scene of Kiva again, Ixa dont seem disarm opponent weapons much. But he did steal Garuru Saber from Kiva to beat the hell out of him. Does that count?

Not disarms but Ixa targets the sword arm of his opponents quite a lot.

 

[MagiSinbad]

I see.

 

[Naito-desu]

I'm not a huge fan of Rurouni Kenshin to really be able to decently support Kenshin but I'll go with what I think. Kenshin Himura is crazy skilled and I think the skill gap is much larger than one thinks.

Yes, Ixa has fought Fangire but I don't think that really helps his case unless Fangire explicitly have an unnatural insight to fighting that Kenshin has, nor does fighting them grant Ixa some help as while years of experience of killing and waging does count for something in fighting, 12 extinctions and fighting skill don't really have that much of a correlation to fighting someone with Analytical Prediction as good as Kenshin's.

I'm not really going to vote here but I think that Ixa's physical fighting ability is being overplayed by facts that don't really have any relevance whatsoever to countering Kenshin's style of fighting.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

I'm not a huge fan of Rurouni Kenshin to really be able to decently support Kenshin but I'll go with what I think. Kenshin Himura is crazy skilled and I think the skill gap is much larger than one thinks.

Yes, Ixa has fought Fangire but I don't think that really helps his case unless Fangire explicitly have an unnatural insight to fighting that Kenshin has, nor does fighting them grant Ixa some help as while years of experience of killing and waging does count for something in fighting, 12 extinctions and fighting skill don't really have that much of a correlation to fighting someone with Analytical Prediction as good as Kenshin's.

I'm not really going to vote here but I think that Ixa's physical fighting ability is being overplayed by facts that don't really have any relevance whatsoever to countering Kenshin's style of fighting.

That's a good enough explanation for me lol.

 

[MagiSinbad]

One important question : how much is Kenshin's AP?

 

[Popted2]

One important question : how much is Kenshin's AP?

71.103 ton

 

[RandomGuy2345]

One important question : how much is Kenshin's AP?

~71.1 tons iirc.

 

[MagiSinbad]

So 71 tons vs 82 tons.
Ixa seem having a bit of AP advantage. Dont know if that os relevant tho.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

I mean, we could just say it’s 56 tons. Cause other than it being several dozens, we don’t know to extent. But like, it’s up to you I guess. Cause if you want to say it’s 48x, Ixa’s AP would be 72 tons

So 71 tons vs 82 tons.
Ixa seem having a bit of AP advantage. Dont know if that os relevant tho.

I said anything <82.5 tons is okay.

What you said though about Ixa's AP being 56 or 72 tons is okay to use.

 

[MagiSinbad]

@BERRIES555 how much does Ixa got amped in this match again?

Edit : my apologies, seem 72 tons Ixa was used.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

This is Ixa after amps so I've calculated his AP. He is anywhere between 56.52 tons to 100 tons.

 

[BERRIES555]

So, how well can Kenshin dodge. From what’s said above, Ixa starts off will his gun, which has a fire rate so fasts that Kabuto, who moves at Sub-Reletivistic speeds, couldn’t dodge it. Kenshin could block a few hits but he’ll get overwhelmed. Not only that, Ixa can produce a shockwave to increase the distance between the two.

And how well is Kenshin’s predictions? Ixa could fight opponents while being blind and could blind Kenshin as well. 300 lumens us enough to blind people in daylight, Ixa’s flashers are sitting at 37+ million lumens. Even if Kenshin can fight while blind, he’ll likely be disoriented by the intense light.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Bump

 

[BERRIES555]

I’m pretty sure you only need to bump once a day if the thread has been inactive for some time

 

[Naito-desu]

Kenshin has incredibly good senses and has won fights blinded before, being stunned shouldn't be a problem, even when he's blinded he can still read aura to get a read on his next moves. And even with speeds equalized, Kenshin's reactions still far surpass his regular speed, so while he will have trouble fighting against the bullets, he can still react to them since he has fought enemies much faster than him before and still won. People often forget in speeds equalized fights that if reactions are faster than movement speed, they maintain themselves being faster proportional to the speed equalized.

To play devil's advocate, Kenshin also has decent range with Air Manipulation when he draws his sword and can even create a vacuum. And Ixa doesn't seem to resist any form of Fear Manipulation, so Kenshin inducing Fear into him is also a valid tactic, as even glancing at him can cause fighters to collapse. So even if Ixa can recover from the fear messing with him, it can still catch him off-guard.

Still not voting, but bringing things to the table that people haven't considered.

 

[Naito-desu]

It's not explicitly written but Kenshin Himura does have Extrasensory Perception so blindness should not be an issue, it's just attached to his Analytical Prediction

 

[RandomGuy2345]

This is getting good...

 

[BERRIES555]

I feel like the insane fire rate of Ixa’s gun would be very difficult for Kenshin to handle, even if he’s fought people faster than himself. Although, the fight will get into close ranged sooner or later.

I actually don’t know why it’s not on the profile, but Ixa should have resistance towards fear hax. He’s fought alongside and against Kiva who can install fear into his opponents to lose their will to fight. Kenshin’s fear hax also effective against weak-willed people. But considering how Nago fights demons on the daily, it really shouldn’t affect him.

Once they get close, how good is Kenshin’s predictions and how long can he last before getting hit. Nago’s sword drains his opponents energy for every his he does, and his Class G LS ensures that he’d overpower Kenshin whenever they clash swords. Nago can also summon the Garulu Saber, which causes an AoE sound attack to stun Kenshin and as a side weapon.

 

[Naito-desu]

Kenshin's is basically near-perfect predictions hence why he could keep up with opponents who are faster than him. He's been able to perfectly predict where they would strike in order to defend himself from being blitzed.

That said, Ixa has the superior moveset in terms of versatility. And I feel like I've laid out all I could for Kenshin, so that will be the end of it from me. Still not voting though.

 

[BERRIES555]

Nago’s fighting style makes it so that his opponents cannot think during battle, it’s just and onslaught of attacks. Nago will try to put Kenshin in a scenario in which Kenshin is forced to fight Nago head on. I’m sure than Kenshin will land more hits than Nago, but due to Nago’s sword, Kenshin will get weaker as the fight progresses.

If push comes to shove, Nago could also use the Ixalion to stay out of range and essentially abuse the fact that Kenshin doesn’t have any range options.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Has anyone (excluding Naito) made their decision on who to vote for?

 

[BERRIES555]

I’ll be holding off my vote for now if there’s more arguments for Kenshin, but I’m leaning towards Ixa

 

[BERRIES555]

Has anyone (excluding Naito) made their decision on who to vote for?

Also, why excluding Naito?

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Also, why excluding Naito?

Because he said he's not voting.

 

[IxaSaga2]

If Kenshin comes close, he will have his analytical prediction but I feel like Ixa's Information Analysis and his own enhanced senses will give Ixa the information to retaliate against that. If Kenshin and Ixa comes to clashes, Ixa's sword with wither down Kenshin as the fight goes on due to energy absorption.

Also, what about Ixa's Lightning Manip? He can generate 500 million volts of electricity to shock things.

Edit: Forgot about Ixa Calibur's Vibration Manip. Clashing swords with ixa might even destroy Kenshin's sword. Ixa regularly breaks his enemies weapons in multiple fights.

 

[MagiSinbad]

People often forget in speeds equalized fights that if reactions are faster than movement speed, they maintain themselves being faster proportional to the speed equalized.

We actually did cover that above. The thing is, regarding feats where you react to the attacks that are faster than you :

Ixa has better one.

The gap between Kenshin's combat speed and his reaction speed is subsonic and supersonic. While the gap between a normal fighter like Ixa and a Clock-Up user is Superhuman and Sub-Relativistic.
For a better visual explaination : in the world of Kamen Rider, there are those that can uses Clock Up to amp themselves to become this fast and this fast. Ixa's Hunting Glass can captures the movement of these clock up users and react to their movements and attacks

 

[RandomGuy2345]

We actually did cover that above. The thing is, regarding feats where you react to the attacks that are faster you :

Ixa has better one.

The gap between Kenshin's combat speed and his reaction speed is subsonic and supersonic. While the gap between a normal fighter like Ixa and a Clock-Up user is Superhuman and Sub-Relativistic.
For a better visual explaination : in the world of Kamen Rider, there are those that can uses Clock Up to amp themselves to become this fast and this fast. Ixa's Hunting Glass can captures the movement of these clock up users and react to their movements and attacks

Is that Clock Up ability from Kamen Rider is part of the standard/optional equipment?

 

[MagiSinbad]

Is that Clock Up ability from Kamen Rider is part of the standard/optional equipment?

For the Kamen Riders that has them, yes they are.
But that is not relevant in this match, Ixa doesnt has Clock Up, he just react and shoot the hell out of them.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

For the Kamen Riders that has them, yes they are.
But that is not relevant in this match, Ixa doesnt has Clock Up, he just react and shoot the hell out of them.

Isn't speed equalized? Or am I missing something here?

 

[MagiSinbad]

Isn't speed equalized? Or am I missing something here?

The gap between combat speed and reaction speed can still be kept in speed equalized matches.

So we are comparing how big are the gaps that Ixa and Kenshin have.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

The gap between combat speed and reaction speed can still be kept in speed equalized matches.

So we are comparing how big are the gaps that Ixa and Kenshin have.

So this basically comes down to if Kenshin can react to Ixa's attacks then?

If so, do you think Kenshin is able to do that?

 

[MagiSinbad]

So this basically comes down to if Kenshin can react to Ixa's attacks then?

If so, do you think Kenshin is able to do that?

More like Ixa can reacts to how Kenshin act in slow motion and decides where should he shoot him next. And even if Kenshin can deflect Ixa bullets, Ixa's gun can do rapid fires, so he can just aim where Kenshin is open when he is defending his other bullets (hope i worded it sound understandable enough, english is not my first language).

Given how hothead and dont-like-wasting-time Ixa is, i can see him gonna shoot at Kenshin's hands to disarm him. Then kill him quickly with his finisher that destroys the souls. The light you see in the video is Sol Flasher that used to blind the enemies (as in, make them blind literally), which is a surprise element, so i dont think Kenshin can analytical predict that.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

More like Ixa can reacts to how Kenshin act in slow motion and decided where should he shoot him next. And even if Kenshin can deflect Ixa bullets, Ixa's gun can do rapid fires, so he can just aim where Kenshin is open when he is defending his other bullets (hope i worded it sound understandable enough, english is not my first language).

Given how hothead and dont-like-wasting-time Ixa is, i can see him gonna shoot at Kenshin's hands to disarm him. Then kill him quickly with his finisher that destroys the souls. The light you see in the video is Sol Flasher that used to blind the enemies (as in, make them blind literally), which is a surprise element, so i dont think Kenshin can analytical predict that.

Is your vote for Ixa?

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Whoops. I forgot you already voted for Ixa...