4-D? That's small time! Sonic Revision

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Considering no one attacks or interact with true form Solaris, I don't really see why he wouldn't have 5D AP anyways. This won't make the Super forms 5D though

Otherwise agree with this

 

[Omegabronic]

Considering no one attacks or interact with true form Solaris, I don't really see why he wouldn't have 5D AP anyways. This won't make the Super forms 5D though

Otherwise agree with this

Well they did, they made him unable to create another avatar

 

[Theuser789]

Spark in this context makes more sense to be the last remnants of Solaris, as opposed to its true self.

I actually ahree with this, too. The small flame is supposed to be a parallel to both Iblis and Mephiles, who turn into a small flame and black liquid after being defeated. So yeah, neutral for now.

 

[ShakeResounding]

SNIP

Oh, you should add the proper tags to your CRT so it can be found. It's the name of the character in the wiki. So it should be "Sonic the Hedgehog (Modern)" and "Solaris (Game)".

 

[StrymULTRA]

Even if it was 5D (though it seems to be contested) nothing here says about qualitative superiority.

The tiering and range after all is 1:1 with the sizes after Low 2-C, meaning that Low 1-C range is about affecting an actual Low 1-C sized structure instead of just involving a 5th axis, because of said axis needing to be physically bigger/superior to the lower ones.

So yeah... It really wouldn't grant nothing even about range.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Considering no one attacks or interact with true form Solaris, I don't really see why he wouldn't have 5D AP anyways. This won't make the Super forms 5D though

Otherwise agree with this

Because True Form doesn't show qualitative superiority. It wouldn't grant Solaris AP. We've discussed this several times before

I actually ahree with this, too. The small flame is supposed to be a parallel to both Iblis and Mephiles, who turn into a small flame and black liquid after being defeated. So yeah, neutral for now.

Counted

Oh, you should add the proper tags to your CRT so it can be found. It's the name of the character in the wiki. So it should be "Sonic the Hedgehog (Modern)" and "Solaris (Game)".

Ah, alright

Even if it was 5D (though it seems to be contested) nothing here says about qualitative superiority.

The tiering and range after all is 1:1 with the sizes after Low 2-C, meaning that Low 1-C range is about affecting an actual Low 1-C sized structure instead of just involving a 5th axis, because of said axis needing to be physically bigger/superior to the lower ones.

So yeah... It really wouldn't grant nothing even about range.

I feel being able to attack on a 5th dimensional axis (And BFR to a 5th dimensional axis assuming Chaos Energy proposal goes through) would warrant something beyond standard Tier 2 range. It wouldn't even grant interdimensional stuff?

 

[One-Mastor]

Agree with all, for now

 

[StrymULTRA]

Actually nvm, apparentely Super-Dimensional does not mean shit by its own, also

I am completely against this, also because:

• Anchored in this dimension can simply mean that Solaris is restricting himself to exist in the lower plane without pulling an avatar thing.
• Super-Dimensional can mean literally everything as it's such a vague-ass term that is the same as transcending space-time, it can simply be reffering to Solaris being HDE due to him existing across all of time.
• I really just don't see anything about higher-dimensions here. I have dealt with this kind of shit with DBH, so please...

 

[LaserPrecision]

Actually nvm, apparentely Super-Dimensional does not mean shit by its own, also

I am completely against this, also because:

• Anchored in this dimension can simply mean that Solaris is restricting himself to exist in the lower plane without pulling an avatar thing.
• Super-Dimensional can mean literally everything as it's such a vague-ass term that is the same as transcending space-time, it can simply be reffering to Solaris being HDE due to him existing across all of time.
• I really just don't see anything about higher-dimensions here. I have dealt with this kind of shit with DBH, so please...

Could you summarize the CRT? I don't wanna read an entire DB thread to make a CRT for Sonic. Tho if there is a thread specifically regarding Super-Dimensional, I'd be willing to read that. And Super-Dimensional isn't on its own here. I provided context for the statement.

Sure, it could mean they're anchored, though Eggman believed that hypothesis to be wrong afterwards. But even assuming he restricted himself to a lower dimensional axis, that would mean normally he could move across a 5th axis.

I'll have to respond more in depth when I get back home.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Could you summarize the CRT? I don't wanna read an entire DB thread to make a CRT for Sonic. Tho if there is a thread specifically regarding Super-Dimensional, I'd be willing to read that. And Super-Dimensional isn't on its own here. I provided context for the statement.

Basically for both Sailor Moon and DSBH the term "Super-Dimensional" is meaningless, as it can be just a synonym for Higher-Dimensional, a "bigger" space-time, a higher plane and so on.

It does not mean necessairly that it transcends the cosmology.

Sure, it could mean they're anchored, though Eggman believed that hypothesis to be wrong afterwards. But even assuming he restricted himself to a lower dimensional axis, that would mean normally he could move across a 5th axis.

Nah that's a big ass assumption lad (even from Eggman lol). Not only a higher axis above time was never mentioned in the game as far as I am aware.

Plus iirc:

• Solaris' whole existence relied on a flame-thingy which exists in the universe and blowing it off caused a time paradox.
• Eggman just said a big bullshit about the anchored thing, as the light shells meant shit and his weakpoint was just the consciousness.

 

[JJSliderman]

Him being superdimensional you could argue is him being transcendent of the 4D space in Maginaryworld, but that just makes him > 4D.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Basically for both Sailor Moon and DSBH the term "Super-Dimensional" is meaningless, as it can be just a synonym for Higher-Dimensional, a "bigger" space-time, a higher plane and so on.

It does not mean necessairly that it transcends the cosmology.

Nah that's a big ass assumption lad (even from Eggman lol). Not only a higher axis above time was never mentioned in the game as far as I am aware.

Plus iirc:

• Solaris' whole existence relied on a flame-thingy which exists in the universe and blowing it off caused a time paradox.
• Eggman just said a big bullshit about the anchored thing, as the light shells meant shit and his weakpoint was just the consciousness.

I agree it can mean several things. But in this case there's explicit context on it referring to actual dimensions. The statement of them being super dimensional was made because they existed across all of time and transcended it. Coupling the statement with the belief that Solaris was being anchored across time with the belief that destroying the anchors would send them back to their own dimension.

Solaris' existence is kinda weird. Initially they were a flame, but at the end of the game, they were a sparkling white light in a void.

Eggman had been specifically studying and trying to use Solaris for his own means. He most have formulated the idea from something. Especially with him being a super genius who's shown knowledge of the cosmology. Just seems like he was proven wrong about the Dimensions being the thing keeping Solaris existing across time.

Are the standards really so strict that unless someone is stated to exist on a higher spatial/mathematical dimension verbatim you can't get HDE? Because Solaris is currently treated as being 4D current presumably for the very reasons I gave.

 

[Omegabronic]

I agree it can mean several things. But in this case there's explicit context on it referring to actual dimensions. The statement of them being super dimensional was made because they existed across all of time and transcended it. Coupling the statement with the belief that Solaris was being anchored across time with the belief that destroying the anchors would send them back to their own dimension.

Solaris' existence is kinda weird. Initially they were a flame, but at the end of the game, they were a sparkling white light in a void.

Eggman had been specifically studying and trying to use Solaris for his own means. He most have formulated the idea from something. Especially with him being a super genius who's shown knowledge of the cosmology. Just seems like he was proven wrong about the Dimensions being the thing keeping Solaris existing across time.

Are the standards really so strict that unless someone is stated to exist on a higher spatial/mathematical dimension verbatim you can't get HDE? Because Solaris is currently treated as being 4D current presumably for the very reasons I gave.

I know for a fact that things such as "matematical dimensions" and such are not a must

 

[LaserPrecision]

I know for a fact that things such as "matematical dimensions" and such are not a must

Well I recently saw a CRT regarding HDE. And it seems it recently got more strict standards or smth. So it's possible it might need to be verbatim stated?

 

[HenshinIntervention]

I'm fine with the changes but I really don't see adding a mathematical axis for Solaris' movement for the True Solaris to be needed or justifiable.
It's really vague and there are multiple ways to interpret such a short scene without further context, really I just think that the True Solaris used the bodies of the Solaris that was fought to channel its rage. Because it can't do much as a few sparks of light.

The True Solaris has no evidence of being in a higher axis, in fact it has no evidence of doing much except time travelling Sonic and Elise. The Solaris that was fought was never anchored to anything as I said before.

"That body of light is proof of a super-dimensional life form, and its body, which has absorbed various dimensions, can no longer be half-heartedly attacked! But ...... There must be something in this dimension that is keeping him alive."

That "something" was Solaris' super willpower (Or Collective unconsciousness) .

True Solaris and Angry Solaris don't have much defined differences (at least reliably) besides one being passive and the other being destructive. The ways you interpreted the dimensional stuff aren't nearly enough imo to qualify for a whole new mathematical axis.

 

[LaserPrecision]

I'm fine with the changes but I really don't see adding a mathematical axis for Solaris' movement for the True Solaris to be needed or justifiable.
It's really vague and there are multiple ways to interpret such a short scene without further context, really I just think that the True Solaris used the bodies of the Solaris that was fought to channel its rage. Because it can't do much as a few sparks of light.

The True Solaris has no evidence of being in a higher axis, in fact it has no evidence of doing much except time travelling Sonic and Elise. The Solaris that was fought was never anchored to anything as I said before.

"That body of light is proof of a super-dimensional life form, and its body, which has absorbed various dimensions, can no longer be half-heartedly attacked! But ...... There must be something in this dimension that is keeping him alive."

That "something" was Solaris' super willpower (Or Collective unconsciousness) .

True Solaris and Angry Solaris don't have much defined differences (at least reliably) besides one being passive and the other being destructive. The ways you interpreted the dimensional stuff aren't nearly enough imo to qualify for a whole new mathematical axis.

You're giving me mixed signals. You're fine with my changes, yet don't think there's proof of it. Do you agree with it, but just think that Solaris doesn't have an avatar? If so, I'd like that to be clarified.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I agree it can mean several things. But in this case there's explicit context on it referring to actual dimensions. The statement of them being super dimensional was made because they existed across all of time and transcended it.

Nothing says he transcended time though???

Solaris' existence is kinda weird. Initially they were a flame, but at the end of the game, they were a sparkling white light in a void.

Eggman had been specifically studying and trying to use Solaris for his own means. He most have formulated the idea from something. Especially with him being a super genius who's shown knowledge of the cosmology. Just seems like he was proven wrong about the Dimensions being the thing keeping Solaris existing across time.

Yet he was still wrong. Plus the Super-Dimensional is only a reference to him being HDE due to him existing across time tbf.

"That body of light is proof of a super-dimensional life form, and its body, which has absorbed various dimensions, can no longer be half-heartedly attacked! But ...... There must be something in this dimension that is keeping him alive."

That "something" was Solaris' super willpower (Or Collective unconsciousness) .

That's not a proof using avatars tho ngl.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Basically for both Sailor Moon and DSBH the term "Super-Dimensional" is meaningless, as it can be just a synonym for Higher-Dimensional, a "bigger" space-time, a higher plane and so on.

In Sailor Moon, it was specifically referred to in context with axes and agreed upon that is a 4th dimensional space. And the problem was that it was unknown what the size of the higher dimensional space was.

 

[HenshinIntervention]

You're giving me mixed signals. You're fine with my changes, yet don't think there's proof of it. Do you agree with it, but just think that Solaris doesn't have an avatar? If so, I'd like that to be clarified.

I believe in an even Higher dimensional Solaris, above 2-A, so your arguments are close enough to what I have him at, but I don't think your arguments are good enough to make the change you were going for.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

You fool, you are doing this when HDE Staff CRT just get concluded.

 

[HenshinIntervention]

Nothing says he transcended time though???

Yet he was still wrong. Plus the Super-Dimensional is only a reference to him being HDE due to him existing across time tbf.

That's not a proof using avatars tho ngl.

Solaris obviously transcends time, if Base Sonic was stated to transcend and exist outside of it (In CD, Generations), so can Solaris.
If Solaris were to devour everything he would have to not be affected by time and space. Plus I think it was stated that he will consume all of time? Either way, time would be in the category of "everything" that would be turned to nothing. And in order for Solaris to consume everything he wouldn't be bounded by time or space.

Also I never argued that Solaris even had avatars, not that I believe in that anyway.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

You fool, you are doing this when HDE Staff CRT just get concluded.

I wonder if Solares fits the new rules. I don't think so considering what happened to Mori, but I don't understand anything.

Anyway, I called a staff member who knows more about this specific thing to see if Solares still falls under the new rules.

 

[One-Mastor]

You fool, you are doing this when HDE Staff CRT just get concluded.

I am new in the forum, what is HDE Staff CRT?

 

[Brogeefrong]

Anyway, I called a staff member who knows more about this specific thing to see if Solares still falls under the new rules.

who is this person we speak of, or is he a person who shall not be named

 

[Phsccarvalho]

who is this person we speak of, or is he a person who shall not be named

Deagonx. He participated in a crt about HDE recently, right after the HDE changes. And he seems to know more deeply about the subject.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

I am new in the forum, what is HDE Staff CRT?

Look at the staff discussion section of the forum.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Solaris obviously transcends time, if Base Sonic was stated to transcend and exist outside of it (In CD, Generations), so can Solaris.
If Solaris were to devour everything he would have to not be affected by time and space. Plus I think it was stated that he will consume all of time? Either way, time would be in the category of "everything" that would be turned to nothing. And in order for Solaris to consume everything he wouldn't be bounded by time or space.

This doesn't mean he's 5D though.

You're taking your definition of transcending in a thing that doesn't necessarily mean it.

Otherwise everyone who can survive the destruction of a cosmology is HDE compared to it.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Admittedly, with how these standards for HDE have become needlessly strict changed, I don't really see Solaris being 5-D anymore. At least, not by VSBW's standards

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Admittedly, with how these standards for HDE have become needlessly strict changed, I don't really see Solaris being 5-D anymore. At least, not by VSBW's standards

Now you have to see if it is even 4D or not by the new standards.

Could you ping Deagonx? I would try to call other members who know more about HDE. But I don't know any more since this is recent.

 

[JJSliderman]

It probably is 4D minimum just because of the whole “existing across the dimension of time” aspect.

 

[StrymULTRA]

No one is saying that Solaris is not 4D, just that him being beyond time is not 5D.

 

[HenshinIntervention]

This doesn't mean he's 5D though.

You're taking your definition of transcending in a thing that doesn't necessarily mean it.

Otherwise everyone who can survive the destruction of a cosmology is HDE compared to it.

... I didn't say he was 5D. Whats with you saying stuff that people never said?

 

[Brogeefrong]

is this thread just kinda done for or

 

[MysticMania]

I agree with the original post, personally. I'm not knowledgeable on how dimensional stuff functions, scientifically, but Solaris being described directly as a "transcendent" and "super-dimensional" lifeform, in the context of the story and final battle of Sonic 06, I feel is solid to mean something beyond our regular dimensions.
Out of curiosity, would Maginaryworld and "Fourth Dimension Space/4th Dimension" have any touch or impact on this, if you happen to know?

 

[SeijiSetto]

It probably is 4D minimum just because of the whole “existing across the dimension of time” aspect.

That's temporal omnipresence. IIRC Mori Dan was able to do shenanigans like that from a higher dimension and his HDE was still taken away.

As far as I understand it, HDE is exclusively for things that explicitly have more than 3 spatial dimensions, and that's it.

 

[JJSliderman]

How about Solaris being superdimensional compared to beings who live in a fourth dimensional space?

 

[SeijiSetto]

How about Solaris being superdimensional compared to beings who live in a fourth dimensional space?

I think (so grain of salt) "higher dimensional", "superdimensional" and stuff like that are only used for qualitative superiority now? You'd be better off asking @PrinceofPein since she made the HDE revisions.

 

[StrymULTRA]

How about Solaris being superdimensional compared to beings who live in a fourth dimensional space?

We are 3Ds who live in a 4D universe, so...

 

[StrymULTRA]

I think (so grain of salt) "higher dimensional", "superdimensional" and stuff like that are only used for qualitative superiority now? You'd be better off asking @PrinceofPein since she made the HDE revisions.

They are not, btw. Otherwise DBH would have been Low 1-C from eons.

 

[JJSliderman]

There is actually a blatant 4D space in Shuffle.