2 Resetti Spaggetti people (Frisk Vs Michael Newman (Click))

[JustANormalLemon]

I'm just going along with the looks unless if someone's having trouble reading it, I have no trouble with the title or description of this thread.

well... fist of all It's inside a mention box... and the voters names is 3 times in It... is kinda all over the place you know

 

[JustANormalLemon]

A cursed idea of 2 immortals:

Michael Newman: (0 vote(s))| (0 vote(s))

JustANormalLemon​

vs
Frisk (Undertale): (0 vote(s))| (0 vote(s))
IDK who wins (Incon):

JustANormalLemon,​

FantaRin_The_First,​

H3110l12345I20​

(3 vote(s)) | JustANormalLemon,

H3110l12345I20​

(2 vote(s))
Key: First Round | Second Round
Standard wiki rules, Battle takes place in 2016.

If it's a stomp/inconclusive, second round is whoever gets the first kill. 10 years of prep for both parties

This.... is really confusing

 

[H3110l12345I20]

This.... is really confusing

I'll edit it to make it more neat.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

A cursed idea of 2 immortals:

Michael Newman: (0 vote(s))| (0 vote(s))
vs
Frisk (Undertale): (0 vote(s))| (0 vote(s))
IDK who wins (Incon): JustANormalLemon, FantaRin_The_First, H3110l12345I20 (3 vote(s)) | JustANormalLemon, H3110l12345I20 (2 vote(s))

Key: First Round | Second Round

Standard wiki rules, Battle takes place in 2016. If it's a stomp/inconclusive, second round is whoever gets the first kill. 10 years of prep for both parties

This.... is really confusing

There, are you happy?

 

[JustANormalLemon]

Yes, trough I voted stomp to the second battle, not Incon

 

[H3110l12345I20]

A cursed idea of 2 immortals:

Michael Newman: (0 vote(s))| JustANormalLemon, H3110l12345I20 (2 vote(s))
vs
Frisk (Undertale): (0 vote(s))| (0 vote(s))
IDK who wins (Incon): JustANormalLemon, FantaRin_The_First, H3110l12345I20 (3 vote(s)) |

Key: First Round | Second Round

Standard wiki rules, Battle takes place in 2016. If it's a stomp/inconclusive, second round is whoever gets the first kill. 10 years of prep for both parties

Yes, trough I voted stomp to the second battle, not Incon

There, it's organized at this point.

 

[TauanVictor]

Bump.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Bump.

Why bump this cursed thread? It's almost ded already.

 

[TauanVictor]

Why bump this cursed thread? It's almost ded already.

I didn't even read the comments, I just looked at the votes and thought "ah, an incon, better close and add" lol.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

necro bump. I still find this thread interesting. Frisk just has to be bloodlusted. But I decided to bloodlust both opponents for fairness & with extra wiki experience.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

bump

 

[H3110l12345I20]

bump

 

[JustANormalLemon]

bump

Did You forgot that the Fast foward button makes this a stomp? Michaelcan literraly just fast foward with the objective of killing frisk and he wins every time with prepare time of 10 years

 

[JustANormalLemon]

Did You forgot that the Fast foward button makes this a stomp? Michaelcan literraly just fast foward with the objective of killing frisk and he wins every time with prepare time of 10 years

Actually, the battle is still the same as before basically, just read the previous argumentation (and my even worst writing) to see why this don't work

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Actually, the battle is still the same as before basically, just read the previous argumentation (and my even worst writing) to see why this don't work

Misinterpretation & forgetfulness. Didn't intend fast foward to get involved. But can't Michael also use fast foward in-battle, & don't both opponents have a degree of immortality?

Change I think I meant to do since more than 1 round on a vs thread isn't allowed. vvv

Standard wiki rules, Battle takes place in 2016. Both parties are bloodlusted.

I meant the first round. It's been awhile.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

Uhum... Frisk acasuality means he can always come back to moments before the baattle start with loafing his last save so his immortality negates Michael immortality

But if Michael starts with prepare time the fast foward let's him get to any objective he want if he has enough prepare time sinse It "fowards" to a time line a especific objective has been acomplished

So basically, without prepare time Frisk Blitz, kills Michael and ***** with his immortality and now just incapacitates him

Or michael press fast foward to after having defeated Frisk, making bassicaly impossible to Frisk to win sinse no matter what Frisk do he will be facing a version of Michael that WILL(not try) do anything It's neededy to win, so Frisk or get's incapacitated or they lose all determination after infinity deaths

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Battles with 2 competing hax like these, the quality of abilities & how they get to the most likely results matter. From what I recall, one of the participants stated that Michael's remote can't go over Frisk's reset & Michael is in a stalemate with GenoFrisk. But since there's no GenoFrisk, it would be an incon of Frisk killing Michael.

Uhum... Frisk acasuality means he can always come back to moments before the baattle start with loafing his last save so his immortality negates Michael immortality

This thread agreed prior that Frisk had better hax. Even with the changes on the profile, Frisk still has Acausality & the ability to SAVE & LOAD.

How does Frisk's acausality render Michael's immortallity disabled/useless? (you said negate)

If Michael dies, he's still able to go back to the battlefield. I know that Frisk retains their memories during resets.
_____

Wait, an SBA Frisk has more hax than Michael since they're at peak determination. I'll change it to minimal determination 9-B Frisk since that's what we were originally debating on

So from their immortalities & character I see several potential wincons for either side unless if it's an endless/agreed incon for both sides.

Frisk:
- Michael's still an ordinary man & hasn't been on the adventures Frisk has. So it's possible for Michael to give up eventually more likely than Frisk eventually after enough attempts.

Michael:
- While he would in-character try to pause Frisk initally, he would realize that the child is inhumanely fast very quickly. It would be in-character for him to use fast-foward since in the movie from what I've heard, he uses the fast-foward button to avoid major events in his life.

Michael doesn't remember anything from autopilot Michael. So autopilot Michael could theoretically make Frisk give up or forget major aspects of the battle with enough resets.

___

Not sure if Frisk has fought an opponent with Michael's powers, but Frisk does have better feats. I'll wait for feedback for now.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

Uhum....

Frisk load is timeless, Loading back after Michael "ressurect" they just bring the fight back to their last save point, especially sinse Michael has no acasuality to protect his mind

Genocide Frisk goes to the kill in character as well

And fast foward with 10 years of prepare means michel can just nuke the shit out of frisk if he want theorically

Basically, or Michael stomps by fast foward or Frisk stomps by imcapacitation

 

[JustANormalLemon]

I will try to explain better tomorrow

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Frisk load is timeless, Loading back after Michael "ressurect" they just bring the fight back to their last save point, especially sinse Michael has no acasuality to protect his mind

Already knew this. And how does this help when we don't know Frisk's canon age precisely? And Frisk's last save point at that point would be when Frisk's 3. So 9 years from the age of 12 versus 10 years from Michael is not enough to override resurrection.

Genocide Frisk goes to the kill in character as well

There was a major CRT on Frisk's page according to it's version history (no GenoFrisk key). Not sure if it means getting rid of the GenoFrisk assumption here since Frisk can have minimal determination in that state.

And fast foward with 10 years of prepare means michel can just nuke the shit out of frisk if he want theorically

Basically, or Michael stomps by fast foward or Frisk stomps by imcapacitation

It doesn't say that he has 10 years of prep, but I can always close the prep gap to several seconds or a month if this is a problem. Michael hasn't shown the capacity to become Nuclear Michael even with me not watching the movie as far as I know. What's the best fast-foward feat here Michael's done? This is a bit NLF by using a theoretical statement. While certain characters' abilities can potentally do "X thing," that doesn't mean they can actually do it or their powers are actually potent. Reactive evolution as a power is an example of this.

Frisk's AP means that they'll most definitely one-shot kill Michael. How often is the incapacitation going to happen? Frisk is bloodlusted, not incaplusted.

You frankly brought up 2 possible wincons for either side.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

Let me put this way, Frisk can try infinity times and completly blitz michel, so Michel wouldn't be able to even pause frisk, so Michael is unable to take a W like this without prepare, even if he use the fast foward button as It only make Michel do actions perfectly to get to his desired outcome but is still limited by Michel own phisical capabilities, so It would be useless without prepare time

But with prepare time the fast foward button means Michel will have batman levels of prepare every time he fights Frisk, no matter how much Frisk try to learn Michael Habilities to counter him in the next load

So both possibilities are stomps

 

[H3110l12345I20]

A resurrected Michael would use fast forward to avoid dealing with an inhumanely strong & fast child.

You keep thinking that the remote's fast forward option can make him batman & that's partially valid. But you're not directly countering my arguement of the no limits fallacy.

I'll give an example. 2 characters have reactive evolution or reality warping. Theoretically, they should stalemate, but having better evidence that proves which use/potency of said ability is better would give the entity with better use/potency of said ability an advantage.

Michael's fast-foward button has been shown to make him a fat rich CEO & obey Michael's commands. So at best, he's going to be some cool, athletic general of a military.

Frisk is capable of befriending or even killing the entirety of the Underground in Undertale on their own. They're also way stronger & faster than any human. How does that compare to being some sick general?

As always, I can always edit the battle conditions to deal with the preparation gap if it becomes a problem.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

A resurrected Michael would use fast forward to avoid dealing with an inhumanely strong & fast child.

You keep thinking that the remote's fast forward option can make him batman & that's partially valid. But you're not directly countering my arguement of the no limits fallacy.

I'll give an example. 2 characters have reactive evolution or reality warping. Theoretically, they should stalemate, but having better evidence that proves which use/potency of said ability is better would give the entity with better use/potency of said ability an advantage.

Michael's fast-foward button has been shown to make him a fat rich CEO & obey Michael's commands. So at best, he's going to be some cool, athletic general of a military.

Frisk is capable of befriending or even killing the entirety of the Underground in Undertale on their own. They're also way stronger & faster than any human. How does that compare to being some sick general?

As always, I can always edit the battle conditions to deal with the preparation gap if it becomes a problem.

Michael ressurection is negated By Frisk loading a his save from the start of the battle

and no, I'm saying that with fast Foward Michael set's explosives before the battle start after becoming a explosive ilegal dealer and setting It up in the entire place and explode the entire place the moment Frisk enters to fight, Bring a helicopter with machine guns to the fight or a war tank or something like that, if he has no prepare time the fast foward button will not help him with anything without prepare time sinse Frisk just stomps a regular Micheal in every way, I'm respecting the No limit fallcy acnollaging the limits of the fast foward button of needing the prepare time, Michael just needs to desire to fastfoward to the point were he killed that child to win basically, and without the fast foward basically making a guarantea "future" Michael is just blitzed sinse Frisk defeat him before he can even react and just re loads to before killing michael as many times they need to defeat him without making the "Go back to 2016" thing

I just don't see any ruling that can be done here that Let's this be fair

If You use pacifist frisk or Neutral route frisk with no prepare time for michel trough this becomes another history

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Michael ressurection is negated By Frisk loading a his save from the start of the battle

You're missing the point. It's already established that as long as Frisk has their memories, they should still be able to reset. I established that Frisk would at most be 12 since they're preteen, & that human memories start at the age of 3. I already implied that Frisk can't causally use their save & load abilities because at that point, Frisk would lose all of their memories at the age of 2 if Frisk managed to load that far.

and no, I'm saying that with fast Foward Michael set's explosives before the battle start after becoming a explosive ilegal dealer and setting It up in the entire place and explode the entire place the moment Frisk enters to fight, Bring a helicopter with machine guns to the fight or a war tank or something like that,

I read your arguments & already knew this. I was saying Michael's fast foward button was capable of "things up to X feats," not that you said it.

if he has no prepare time the fast foward button will not help him with anything without prepare time sinse Frisk just stomps a regular Micheal in every way, I'm respecting the No limit fallcy acnollaging the limits of the fast foward button of needing the prepare time, Michael just needs to desire to fastfoward to the point were he killed that child to win basically, and without the fast foward basically making a guarantea "future" Michael is just blitzed sinse Frisk defeat him before he can even react and just re loads to before killing michael as many times they need to defeat him without making the "Go back to 2016" thing

I can always balence it out by equalizing speed & reducing prep time to at least 1 year for Michael. And how does the fast foward button have preparation when I didn't give Michael any preparation time directly?

 

[JustANormalLemon]

You're missing the point. It's already established that as long as Frisk has their memories, they should still be able to reset. I established that Frisk would at most be 12 since they're preteen, & that human memories start at the age of 3. I already implied that Frisk can't causally use their save & load abilities because at that point, Frisk would lose all of their memories at the age of 2 if Frisk managed to load that far.

I read your arguments & already knew this. I was saying Michael's fast foward button was capable of "things up to X feats," not that you said it.

I can always balence it out by equalizing speed & reducing prep time to at least 1 year for Michael. And how does the fast foward button have preparation when I didn't give Michael any preparation time directly?

1- If the battle alread takes place in 2016 Frisk alread is 12 here, and Almost sure even with 2 years Frisk would still be able to have It's memories sinse we are talking about fiction and frisk also have that strange conection to the player and bla bla bla. If not Michael wins sinse a 2 Years old frisk is tecnically incapacitated, so he wins by beingh killed once
2- okay
3- The rules have been changed so much that I trough they still had the 10 years prepare time, any way. If You equalize speed Michael stomps by time stoping frisk, what also stops their hability to think so they can't load their last save

 

[H3110l12345I20]

1- If the battle alread takes place in 2016 Frisk alread is 12 here, and Almost sure even with 2 years Frisk would still be able to have It's memories sinse we are talking about fiction and frisk also have that strange conection to the player and bla bla bla. If not Michael wins sinse a 2 Years old frisk is tecnically incapacitated, so he wins by beingh killed once

1: Elaborate on the strange connection to the player. It it shown in canon that Frisk would be able to have memories at the age of 2 & how? You're countering your arguement too? Ok. And since the setting is 2016 & not 2006, Frisk isn't going to be less then 3 years old, & at most 12 since Frisk is a preteen. To be fair, with you, Frisk is going to be battlefield removed since Frisk would forget the battle at that point.

Why would Frisk reset that far when Frisk can load back before the battle?

3- The rules have been changed so much that I trough they still had the 10 years prepare time, any way. If You equalize speed Michael stomps by time stoping frisk, what also stops their hability to think so they can't load their last save

The rules are actually stated here vvv

SBA. Battle takes place in 2016. Both parties are bloodlusted & Frisk is at minimal determination (Sep 1, 2023).

Frisk's mind is still within time, but when Frisk's undead, is Frisk still affected by time? If not, then Frisk can still think, otherwise, I'll think of something else.

Forgot that Michael Newman matches can end up with "who shoots first."

 

[JustANormalLemon]

1: Elaborate on the strange connection to the player. It it shown in canon that Frisk would be able to have memories at the age of 2 & how? You're countering your arguement too? Ok. And since the setting is 2016 & not 2006, Frisk isn't going to be less then 3 years old, & at most 12 since Frisk is a preteen. To be fair, with you, Frisk is going to be battlefield removed since Frisk would forget the battle at that point.

Why would Frisk reset that far when Frisk can load back before the battle?

Let's start this part over okay? This is becoming confusing? especially sinse the 2 Years old frisk part isn't important anymore
Okay, so now frisk just lose if he kills michael sinse he is BFR, but he can still load just before the battle to stop that, okay now michael imortality is irrelevant

Frisk's mind is still within time, but when Frisk's undead, is Frisk still affected by time? If not, then Frisk can still think, otherwise, I'll think of something else.

Forgot that Michael Newman matches can end up with "who shoots first."

I mean, Frisk can still think to reset whem his soul is broken, but they were never "stoped" in time and Michael pause button has show to stop others capability of thinking, thanks to what happened to his boss

Any way, Frisk beingh able to "stop beingh able to thinl" has benn brought in other Frisk battles and nothing sugest that if he is paused in time he would still be able to think sinse his death is something completly separate from his hability to reset and control of time

So yes, if Michael pause Frisk, they mostly likely can't keep thinking

My sugestion? not equalize speed and put pacifist route frisk, pacifist frisk goes for social influence and haxes, but also don't know what the control does so this finally becomes a incon sinse or Michael stops frisk and incapacitate or Frisk SI him to defeat before that thanks to blitzing Michael, so they can do that before Michael points and press the pause button

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Okay, so now frisk just lose if he kills michael sinse he is BFR, but he can still load just before the battle to stop that, okay now michael imortality is irrelevant

Can you be more detailed in how Frisk's reset negates Michael's immortality? If Michael dies to Frisk & Frisk resets prior to the battle, Michael's going to return. The only thing that's negated would be Michael's memories.

pacifist frisk goes for social influence and haxes, but also don't know what the control does so this finally becomes a incon sinse or Michael stops frisk and incapacitate or Frisk SI him to defeat before that thanks to blitzing Michael, so they can do that before Michael points and press the pause button

Sounds fitting considering most of Michael's matches can be who shoots first. I'll do that tommorow or a couple of days.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

Can you be more detailed in how Frisk's reset negates Michael's immortality? If Michael dies to Frisk & Frisk resets prior to the battle, Michael's going to return. The only thing that's negated would be Michael's memories.

What I mean is that It becomes a non factor for the discussion sinse Michael gains nothing by It and just turns the battle more inconvenient for Frisk

Sounds fitting considering most of Michael's matches can be who shoots first. I'll do that tommorow or a couple of days.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

What I mean is that It becomes a non factor for the discussion sinse Michael gains nothing by It and just turns the battle more inconvenient for Frisk

To be frank, Frisk would need to prevent Michael with save & load. At that point, would be an endless incon cycle since Frisk would keep reloading assuming Frisk is trying to prevent Michael's immortality.

I'm having a feeling that the current conditions would end up like the last debate with Fanta on this thread. Michael dying over & over again is morbidly boring. Your suggestions actually open up winconditions for either side & make things fresh.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

To be frank, Frisk would need to prevent Michael with save & load. At that point, would be an endless incon cycle since Frisk would keep reloading assuming Frisk is trying to prevent Michael's immortality.

I'm having a feeling that the current conditions would end up like the last debate with Fanta on this thread. Michael dying over & over again is morbidly boring. Your suggestions actually open up winconditions for either side & make things fresh.

Ye, genocide Frisk just don't work here :V but also would recomend create a new thread for that and let this one die sinse... It's a mess at this point

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Ye, genocide Frisk just don't work here :V but also would recomend create a new thread for that and let this one die sinse... It's a mess at this point

The debate was nice! I'll create another thread in the meantime.

& do you want to come back to breaking bad in seeing Walter White fight a doggy (conditions)?

 

[BigSmoke4269]

frisk won’t just endlessly kill michael lol literally the entire point of undertale is that you have the option of convincing your enemies to surrender, if frisk just talks michael out of fighting them the remote won’t reset the battle and frisk wins via pacification

 

[JustANormalLemon]

frisk won’t just endlessly kill michael lol literally the entire point of undertale is that you have the option of convincing your enemies to surrender, if frisk just talks michael out of fighting them the remote won’t reset the battle and frisk wins via pacification

Genocide route frisk beingh used at the moment, not neutral nor pacifist rote frisk

 

[H3110l12345I20]

frisk won’t just endlessly kill michael lol literally the entire point of undertale is that you have the option of convincing your enemies to surrender, if frisk just talks michael out of fighting them the remote won’t reset the battle and frisk wins via pacification

Hold the phone, I'll make a continuation thread with Lemon's conditions.

My sugestion? not equalize speed and put pacifist route frisk, pacifist frisk goes for social influence and haxes, but also don't know what the control does so this finally becomes a incon sinse or Michael stops frisk and incapacitate or Frisk SI him to defeat before that thanks to blitzing Michael, so they can do that before Michael points and press the pause button

 

[BigSmoke4269]

time stop incap doesn’t work since time technically doesn’t move while frisk is frozen meaning they are incapped for 0 seconds

 

[H3110l12345I20]

(Continuation thread)