2-C Dragon Ball Super upgrade

[Dereck03]

Doubt.

I am not going to discuss this any further, I have already specified the reasons why and it is also known that the individual born of a fusion, in a base state is superior to the maximum power of the fused... That you do not want to read the reasons is not my problem.

 

[Orange]

I mean having the base of a fusion weaker than their strongest state it would kinda.....just really defeat the whole point of it.
Base gogeta even for briefly, performed arguably if not flat out better against a stronger ssj broly than ssb goku and vegeta did against a weaker ssj broly.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

That's poison not ki, I gave examples of this statement in the show to show it's reliable.
I think we kind of hit a dead end so first I wanna make sure what people think of scaling Toppo to the GoDs for him becoming an actual GoD and thus scaling to vados' statement like the other GoDs, if people agree then I will revise the scaling and edit it into the original post then we can call staff or something.

I feel like, that's the justification for his low 2-C or was at some point, I'm not sure but I think this topic came up before and had a swift decisive answer but that would have been a thread from when super was still coming out and finding it now would probably be almost impossible

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

I feel like, that's the justification for his low 2-C or was at some point, I'm not sure but I think this topic came up before and had a swift decisive answer but that would have been a thread from when super was still coming out and finding it now would probably be almost impossible

Well we have no choice but to discuss it again then, I am just waiting on peoples opinions now.

 

[DivineAura44]

Blue Goku > Base Gogeta imo.

 

[Rez]

Blue Goku > Base Gogeta imo.

No definitely not both blue Vegeta and Goku were losing badly to broly meanwhile base gogeta was making him look like he's nothing

 

[DaReaperMan]

Not this shit again.

One, Two, Three, Four 2-C Dragon Ball CRTS.

This is still getting likes lol

 

[Orange]

Well I agree.
Toppo and ssbe vegeta would have the rule that's applied to gods.
UI and suppressed jiren would have the rule too.
Ssb goku after UI preformed better than UI. Which mean the ssbkk20 ssbe goku and vegeta, suppressed jiren and toppo, green haired kefla would have "at least low 2-C, likely 2-C"
Full power jiren and mui goku would have flat out 2-C
Base gogeta and ikari broly would have "at least low 2-C, likely 2-C"
Green haired broly, ssj and ssb gogeta would have a flat out "2-C"
Also since base gogeta scales above ssbkk20 or just ssb goku, we need to change his speed rating too but that's for another ctr.
Do you agree?

 

[Orange]

Blue Goku > Base Gogeta imo.

Blue goku and vegeta were literally running away, fighting for their life, scared shitless from a weaker ssj broly
Meanwhile: Base Gogeta smiling able to evade, and deflect multiple ki blasts from a stronger ssj broly.
You can literally argue for base gogeta being above ssbkk20 and ssbe vegeta and goku

 

[DaReaperMan]

This is still getting likes lol

God damnit i shouldn't have mentioned it! Hahahahaha!

Well I agree.
Toppo and ssbe vegeta would gave the rule that's applied to gods.
UI and suppressed jiren would have the rule too.
Ssb goku after UI preformed better than UI. Which mean the ssbkk20 ssbe goku and vegeta, suppressed jiren and toppo, green haired kefla would have "at least low 2-C, likely 2-C"
Full power jiren and mui goku would have flat out 2-C
Base gogeta and ikari broly would have "at least low 2-C, likely 2-C"
Green haired broly, ssj and ssb gogeta would have a flat out "2-C"
Also since base gogeta scales above ssbkk20 or just ssb goku, we need to change his speed rating too but that's for another ctr.
Do you agree?

I think that's fine

 

[DivineAura44]

Blue goku and vegeta were literally running away, fighting for their life, scared shitless from a weaker ssj broly
Meanwhile: Base Gogeta smiling able to evade, and deflect multiple ki blasts from a stronger ssj broly.
You can literally argue for base gogeta being above ssbkk20 and ssbe vegeta and goku

For mere seconds. You are also comparing a tired Goku to Post Zenkai stamina and health replenished Gogeta.

 

[Orange]

Should I make a other post to justify why everyone has the ratings or that's enough?

 

[Orange]

For mere seconds. You are also comparing a tired Goku to Post Zenkai stamina and health replenished Gogeta.

This only makes gogeta stronger you know that?
Those mere seconds gogeta could do what vegeta and goku couldn't.
Mind you base gogeta was able to do that for a stronger version of broly

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Well I agree.
Toppo and ssbe vegeta would have the rule that's applied to gods.
UI and suppressed jiren would have the rule too.
Ssb goku after UI preformed better than UI. Which mean the ssbkk20 ssbe goku and vegeta, suppressed jiren and toppo, green haired kefla would have "at least low 2-C, likely 2-C"
Full power jiren and mui goku would have flat out 2-C
Base gogeta and ikari broly would have "at least low 2-C, likely 2-C"
Green haired broly, ssj and ssb gogeta would have a flat out "2-C"
Also since base gogeta scales above ssbkk20 or just ssb goku, we need to change his speed rating too but that's for another ctr.
Do you agree?

That's cool but I want to do comment on some stuff.
If toppo becomes at least 2-C he'd scale to baseline half 2-C. Vegeta is stronger than toppo, and KK20 goku is equal to ssbe vegeta.
Supressed Jiren clapped both ssbk20 goku and ssbe vegeta at the same time so he flat out scales to 2-C. and at full power he's even stronger and sign 3 goku matched him.
Kefal and sign 2 goku, I don't know how they scale to post sign 2 ssb goku but I assume they scale lower and they don't have enough evidence to be on the same level as ssbk20 goku post sign 2 or GoD toppo so they won't scale to at least low 2-C.
MUI goku would be >>> full power jiren and hidden power jiren would scale to goku but be weaker.
For the broly movie, Base gogeta > SSB goku and vegeta, going SSJ would be 50x making him 2.5 times stronger than SSBE vegeta and SSBK20 goku. So SSJ gogeta and SSJ broly would both be 2-C and blue gogeta and green hair broly scale even higher. That's it so let's summarize.
At least low 2-C = Toppo < SSBE vegeta = SSBkk20 goku << suppressed Jiren = 2-C < full power jiren = Sign 3 goku <<< hidden power jiren < MUI goku.
SSB goku and vegeta (20x less than baseline half 2-C)< base Gogeta < At least low 2-C = Toppo < SSBE vegeta = SSBK20 goku < 2-C << SSJ Gogeta (2.5 times greater than SSBk20 goku and vegeta meaning he's 0.5 times above baseline 2-C) = SSJ broly < SSJ full power broly <<< SSB Gogeta.

 

[Orange]

I have a quick problem
I think it's too much assumption to assume the gogeta in base doesn't scale to their strongest forms "aka sane and ssbkk20"
The fusion ins base is => the strongest forms of the people who make up the fusion.
Because if base gogeta was weaker than ssbe and ssbkk20 goku and vegeta, they wouldve transformed into them.
But the fact that they immediately ruined away and thought about fusion, which is something they only use when it's absolutely necessary, goku had to remind vegeta what would happen if they don't fuse everytime in canon.
So fusion for them is the last resort, because it goes against Thier own fighting style and vegeta's pride. Because if the fusion wasn't the last resort they wouldve transformed into ssbkk20 and ssbe to try their luck against broly, but they didn't, they immediately thought of running away instead of facing him like they did against multiple opponents.
Halftime 2-C = toppo. Kefla, ssbe and ssbkk20 goku and vegeta, supressed jiren.
2-C = Mui goku, full power jiren. "Possibly ikari broly?" Base gogeta, ssj gogeta and ssj broly, lssj brolly and ssb gogeta.
"In the anime, goku preformed much better in ssb than he did in UI, so wouldn't this mean ssbkk20, and ssbe would have rating of possible 2-C?"

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

I have a quick problem
I think it's too much assumption to assume the gogeta in base doesn't scale to their strongest forms "aka sane and ssbkk20"
The fusion ins base is => the strongest forms of the people who make up the fusion.
Because if base gogeta was weaker than ssbe and ssbkk20 goku and vegeta, they wouldve transformed into them.
But the fact that they immediately ruined away and thought about fusion, which is something they only use when it's absolutely necessary, goku had to remind vegeta what would happen if they don't fuse everytime in canon.
So fusion for them is the last resort, because it goes against Thier own fighting style and vegeta's pride. Because if the fusion wasn't the last resort they wouldve transformed into ssbkk20 and ssbe to try their luck against broly, but they didn't, they immediately thought of running away instead of facing him like they did against multiple opponents.
Halftime 2-C = toppo. Kefla, ssbe and ssbkk20 goku and vegeta, supressed jiren.
2-C = Mui goku, full power jiren. "Possibly ikari broly?" Base gogeta, ssj gogeta and ssj broly, lssj brolly and ssb gogeta.
"In the anime, goku preformed much better in ssb than he did in UI, so wouldn't this mean ssbkk20, and ssbe would have rating of possible 2-C?"

Ok that makes sense, so base gogeta is at least low 2-C and is more than 25x above 2-C so not 2.5 times cool. Ikari broly scales to goku in SSB which is below at least 2-C since goku and vegeta are only that in SSBk20 and SSBE. But I really want to know how you scale kefla to toppo? kefla and sign 2 goku are only greater than sign 1 goku who's above baseline low 2-C, and SSB goku is supposed to be stronger than himself in UI since he did better against jiren, so that would mean kefla and sign 2 goku don't scale above SSBK20 goku.

 

[DivineAura44]

That was retconned.

 

[Orange]

Ok that makes sense, so base gogeta is at least low 2-C and is more than 25x above 2-C so not 2.5 times cool. Ikari broly scales to goku in SSB which is below at least 2-C since goku and vegeta are only that in SSBk20 and SSBE. But I really want to know how you scale kefla to toppo? kefla and sign 2 goku are only greater than sign 1 goku who's above baseline low 2-C, and SSB goku is supposed to be stronger than himself in UI since he did better against jiren, so that would mean kefla and sign 2 goku don't scale above SSBK20 goku.

I didn't meant to scale them to be exactly as strong as they are lmao it was my fault.
It was merely to show that they upscale from the gods rule.
Who is stronger than who wasn't my intention at all.
I only put them there so that people can see in what feat do they scale from, not if they scale for being stronger or weaker than each other

 

[Orange]

That was retconned.

What retcoon?

 

[Orange]

Ok that makes sense, so base gogeta is at least low 2-C and is more than 25x above 2-C so not 2.5 times cool. Ikari broly scales to goku in SSB which is below at least 2-C since goku and vegeta are only that in SSBk20 and SSBE. But I really want to know how you scale kefla to toppo? kefla and sign 2 goku are only greater than sign 1 goku who's above baseline low 2-C, and SSB goku is supposed to be stronger than himself in UI since he did better against jiren, so that would mean kefla and sign 2 goku don't scale above SSBK20 goku.

Base gogeta is at least half 2-C with possible 2-c yes.
Well for broly I definitely agree with you. We can just give him at least half 2-c or just low 2-c with just stating likely higher.
Ssj broly would be at least be 2-C since he drove gogeta to transform, and base gogeta would be 2-c

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Base gogeta would actually be at least low 2-C because he's supposed to be stronger than SSBK20 goku but not enough for a 2x difference, half low 2-C = toppo < ssbe vegeta = ssbk20goku < Gogeta base.
Ikari broly would only be low 2-C since he's far weaker than SSBK20 goku.

 

[Orange]

Base gogeta would actually be at least low 2-C because he's supposed to be stronger than SSBK20 goku but not enough for a 2x difference, half low 2-C = toppo < ssbe vegeta = ssbk20goku < Gogeta base.
Ikari broly would only be low 2-C since he's far weaker than SSBK20 goku.

Actually actually, goku in ssb preformed better than he did when he was UI.
And UI stated to be possibly stronger than beerus, giving at the very least the same rule that applies to gods.
So goku in ssbkk2 would actually be 2-C

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Actually actually, goku in ssb preformed better than he did when he was UI.
And UI stated to be possibly stronger than beerus, giving at the very least the same rule that applies to gods.
So goku in ssbkk2 would actually be 2-C

I disagree with that statement about UI 1 sign being stronger than beerus, I think it's from a magazine which isn't reliable, and because that would mean that toppo is weaker than SSB goku which he's not, or that could mean that Toppo became the strongest god which he also isn't so yeah.

 

[Orange]

I disagree with that statement about UI 1 sign being stronger than beerus, I think it's from a magazine which isn't reliable, and because that would mean that toppo is weaker than SSB goku which he's not, or that could mean that Toppo became the strongest god which he also isn't so yeah.

Toppo isn't weaker than ssbe.
We don't know for sure if beerus is the strongest of all gods.
And why would it mean that toppo is weaker than goku?
And Was the magazine proven to be unreliable before, if you say it is, then I would love to see the evidence that supports your claim.
And UI with that statement could be weaker slightly than beerus, the same or slightly above.
Toppo is the candidate for a god of destruction which is stronger than beerus so toppo being weaker than ssb is a weak point

 

[KingTempest]

Toppo is the candidate for a god of destruction which is stronger than beerus

 

[DaReaperMan]

I dislike DB but BS there man

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Toppo isn't weaker than ssbe.
We don't know for sure if beerus is the strongest of all gods.
And why would it mean that toppo is weaker than goku?
And Was the magazine proven to be unreliable before, if you say it is, then I would love to see the evidence that supports your claim.
And UI with that statement could be weaker slightly than beerus, the same or slightly above.
Toppo is the candidate for a god of destruction which is stronger than beerus so toppo being weaker than ssb is a weak point

Can you show me the statement and the source?
Toppo can fight SSBE vegeta, and Toppo must be baseline half 2-C because his only scaling is the vados' statement. IF Sign 1 goku was stronger than beerus then sign 1 goku at least low 2-C and then SSB goku would be stronger than beerus and toppo which isn't true since toppo is already around SSBE level. Basically it ruins the scaling of the TOP completely as even Jiren is stated to be on the GoD level and it's considered impressive so it makes literally no sense if almost everyone in the TOP became stronger than beerus lol.

 

[Orange]

You are probably right, so that would just make UI and kefla unable to scale from beerus, a bumwr but evidence is evidence
Btw the statement comes from a promotional magazine, so it makes it less trust worthy.

 

[KingTempest]

So Beerus is just fodder tier now?

Interesting

 

[Orange]

Whis states that jiren is the strongest mortal in u11, stating that he is stronger than U11 god of destruction, stating that the god of destruction is stronger than beerus, berrus claims that he only lost to him in a arm wrestling battle, making the God of destruction of U11 possibly stronger, POSSIBLY and I emphasise at possible stronger than beerus.
Toppo being scaled to beerus is extremely fishy which I just realised, but him being stated to be a god if destruction and candidate for being the god of destruction of u11 would possibly, but with hight unlikely be at the same league as belmod but weaker or with the possibility, which is highly unlikely or just unlikely as strong as belmod

 

[Orange]

So Beerus is just fodder tier now?

Interesting

Always has been
Besides champa is better anyway
#ChampaForPresident

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

So Beerus is just fodder tier now?

Interesting

Yes, if people agree that toppo scales to the other GoDs then beerus will be as strong as SSBE vegeta lmao.

 

[Kin201]

Beerus murders God Mode Toppo and surpressed Jiren, lol.

 

[Orange]

Toppo could easily be the strongest, he has the moustache!
But Being seriously, toppo is at the level of Gods, but not at the top of the food chain.
He would be the lowest in rank sadly.
My boi toppo, look how they massacred my boi

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Beerus murders God Mode Toppo and surpressed Jiren, lol.

do you can prove? if you have counter arguments against GoD toppo scaling to the GoDs then I'd like to hear them.

 

[Rez]

Toppo could easily be the strongest, he has the moustache!
But Being seriously, toppo is at the level of Gods, but not at the top of the food chain.
He would be the lowest in rank sadly.
My boi toppo, look how they massacred my boi

So according to you he is weaker than a kai 4-b dbs confirmed

 

[RisingIons]

Sidra is the weakest on-screen GoD, however Toppo being an apprentice means Sidra should at least be able to replicate Toppo's level of power, because he's been a sitting GoD for millions of years. However with several amps, post-tournament Goku in regular blue should be able to beat at least him.

But, we should not look at titles as indicators of power. Zamasu was a supreme kai in training, and was able to contend with SSJ2 Goku (albeit briefly), after he absorbed the power of SSG, making him the strongest known supreme kai that wasn't yet a supreme kai. The only supreme kai that we know of with power are the old ones that were between DBZ Frieza and Buu level.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Sidra is the weakest on-screen GoD, however Toppo being an apprentice means Sidra should at least be able to replicate Toppo's level of power, because he's been a sitting GoD for millions of years. However with several amps, post-tournament Goku in regular blue should be able to beat at least him.

But, we should not look at titles as indicators of power. Zamasu was a supreme kai in training, and was able to contend with SSJ2 Goku (albeit briefly), after he absorbed the power of SSG, making him the strongest known supreme kai that wasn't yet a supreme kai. The only supreme kai that we know of with power are the old ones that were between DBZ Frieza and Buu level.

I can see where you're coming from but the GoDs are scaled to at least low 2-C via vados' feat because they are GoDs, so my point is that featless GoDs getting the tier means that Toppo who became an actual GoD should also scale.

 

[RisingIons]

Potentially, but it brings me back to what I said earlier:

"Goku and Beerus threatened one universe, Beerus and Champa threatened two, but that certainly does not mean the sum of Beerus and Champa's combined power is only twice the sum of Goku and Beerus's power, unless they've been fighting for infinitesimal fractions of growth, which isn't true. If that was the case, by the time Goku attains SSB for the first time he should be capable of doing the same thing. Or when he absorbed SSG's power into his other forms."

 

[ZERO7772]

This still going? You guys has nothing else to do?

You can go back and forth for a year and it still would mean nothing without staff here. Not to mention there is some absurd claims such as Suppressed Jiren being stronger than GoDs Oof.