2-C Dragon Ball Super upgrade

[manu_zarri]

Don't pull the context out of its butt like that, the scan meaning is just GoD in general, he not stronger than all of GoD combine

where is the scan? can you send it? i remember "Gods" in the guides and in DBS

Also i didn't went out of context, just said my opinion on the CRT

 

[Bernkastelll]

What about this tho?

 

[Hasty12345]

This is so silly, special case or not, I feel Beerus and Champa should be flat out 2-C or the angels get downgraded to low 2-C. This spits on the faces of every other verse on the wiki.

Also, assuming the Angels are 2-C for being 2x stronger than the GoD's is also dumb as we don't know if you need to be 2x stronger than 2 individuals to take both of them on.

assuming Beerus = Champa, if Whis was 1.5x Beerus, he could still potentially one tap both of them, I don't see where 2-C angels even comes from.

 

[manu_zarri]

What about this tho?

ask to the translation here

 

[Bernkastelll]

ask to the translation here

Done

 

[Sevil Natas]

I disagree with 2-C divided by 2 being Low 2-C, u can't divide a infinite number and result less than infinite, 50% of 2-C is still 2-C

ppl really need to get rid of this misconception that 2-C >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> infinite low 2-C
they're unquantifiable, they have a value but since we cant calc said value they're treated as beyond infinite

 

[Vietthai96]

This is so silly, special case or not, I feel Beerus and Champa should be flat out 2-C or the angels get downgraded to low 2-C. This spits on the faces of every other verse on the wiki.

Again wrong, their combine might result in 2-C feats, and the numerical gap distant between 2 space-time is unknown, not infinite so you can't use the logic of infinite divide by 2 still infinite. In this case Beerus + Champa = 2-C then each of then are half 2-C result in atleast Low 2-C as each of their max power could destroy 1 space-time and breach half the distant between the two space-times

 

[manu_zarri]

Scaling above gods can just mean that he's stronger than a certain number or any one of them individually, not that he's stronger than multiple or all of them combined.

Eh, i don't think so, usually the plural is indicated to indicate a set in these cases, and it will get the same meaning of the latter

ppl really need to get rid of this misconception that 2-C >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> infinite low 2-C
they're unquantifiable, they have a value but since we cant calc said value they're treated as beyond infinite

It is, it's not in a Half uncontable infinite tho. or at least not in same way

 

[Planck69]

This is so silly, special case or not, I feel Beerus and Champa should be flat out 2-C or the angels get downgraded to low 2-C. This spits on the faces of every other verse on the wiki.

Most other verses don't have a case like this so I have no idea what you mean here.

I disagree with 2-C divided by 2 being Low 2-C, u can't divide a infinite number and result less than infinite, 50% of 2-C is still 2-C

This is not how 2-C works at all. Seriously, who spread this BS?

 

[Vietthai96]

It is, it's not in a Half uncontable infinite tho

wrong again, it is numerically unknown, not uncountable infinite

 

[manu_zarri]

wrong again, it is numerically unknown, not uncountable infinite

2 Uncontable Infinite/2 = 2 Uncontable Infinite, however, this would be a smaller scale in wiki context, meaning it's something lIke Low 2-C + a part of uncontable infinite, making it Half 2-C

"can't be calculated" it can but it's complicated, and mostly, useless

 

[Hasty12345]

Again wrong, their combine might result in 2-C feats, and the numerical gap distant between 2 space-time is unknown, not infinite so you can't use the logic of infinite divide by 2 still infinite. In this case Beerus + Champa = 2-C then each of then are half 2-C result in atleast Low 2-C as each of their max power could destroy 1 space-time and breach half the distant between the two space-times

I'm not downscaling from infinity, I'm saying DB is getting treated differently from every other verse on the wiki and these kinds of CRT's are gonna keep popping up every month until we get some consistency for DB.


The proof U6 and U7 are separate spacetime continua in and of itself is shallow if not non-existent compared to the strenuous standards other verses have to provide. This in all honestly should be an above 3-A feat than low 2-C. But that's another can of worms.

 

[Planck69]

2 Uncontable Infinite/2 = 2 Uncontable Infinite, however, this would be a smaller scale in wiki context, meaning it's something lIke Low 2-C + a part of uncontable infinite, making it Half 2-C

"can't be calculated" it can but it's complicated, and mostly, useless

That's not how that works....

How do I even begin here?

 

[Vietthai96]

2 Uncontable Infinite/2 = 2 Uncontable Infinite, however, this would be a smaller scale in wiki context, meaning it's something lIke Low 2-C + a part of uncontable infinite, making it Half 2-C

Again wrong, the distant between 2 space-time is not infinite, but we don't know the exact value, we ban the use of multipier to get from Low 2-C to 2-C and only use the Atleast Low 2-C as a safe solution

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Wtf, so if the gap is actually 2x then there's no reason for them to not scale to 2-C, Beerus is literally treated in the wiki as superior to some GoDs and belmod is stated verbatim to be stronger. Jiren is then stated so so many times to be at least equal to or stronger than the GoDs there's no reason for it not tk close the 2x gap. In UI gokus case its even more obvious since he literally stomped a character stronger than the GoDs so what the **** guys?

 

[Vietthai96]

Wtf, so if the gap is actually 2x then there's no reason for them to not scale to 2-C, Beerus is literally treated in the wiki as superior to some GoDs and belmod is stated verbatim to be stronger. Jiren is then stated so so many times to be at least equal to or stronger than the GoDs there's no reason for it not tk close the 2x gap. In UI gokus case its even more obvious since he literally stomped a character stronger than the GoDs so what the **** guys?

Where the hell it is stated that Beerus stronger than all other GoDs, Beerus is not treated in this wiki as stronger than other GoD, stop spreading false information

 

[manu_zarri]

Again wrong, the distant between 2 space-time is not infinite, but we don't know the exact value, we ban the use of multipier to get from Low 2-C to 2-C and only use the Atleast Low 2-C as a safe solution

Prove it mathematically.

 

[Hasty12345]

Wtf, so if the gap is actually 2x then there's no reason for them to not scale to 2-C, Beerus is literally treated in the wiki as superior to some GoDs and belmod is stated verbatim to be stronger. Jiren is then stated so so many times to be at least equal to or stronger than the GoDs there's no reason for it not tk close the 2x gap. In UI gokus case its even more obvious since he literally stomped a character stronger than the GoDs so what the **** guys?

or, they could just be 1.1x stronger or some other number less than 2, which is why I said the angels should be downgraded to low 2-C as there's no proof they're exactly 2 or more times stronger than a GoD (even if it feels like they should).

 

[Bernkastelll]

or, they could just be 1.1x stronger or some other number less than 2, which is why I said the angels should be downgraded to low 2-C as there's no proof they're exactly 2 or more times stronger than a GoD (even if it feels like they should).

Honestly, base jiren is stronger than belmond, UI omen 3 is stronger than base jiren, full power jiren is way above ui omen 3, and MUI goku scales above full power jiren, and enraged MUI goku scales WAY above a casual mui goku, I legit doubt that it is just 1.1x stronger than GoDs

 

[Vietthai96]

or, they could just be 1.1x stronger or some other number less than 2, which is why I said the angels should be downgraded to low 2-C as there's no proof they're exactly 2 or more times stronger than a GoD (even if it feels like they should).

Angel are scale because Whis and Vados are going to stop a 2-C destruction from Beerus and Champa, but because the feat is close to happen, but not happen, they have a Likely 2-C rating

Prove it mathematically.

there are nothing related to math to prove, like i said before, the distant between 2 space-time is unknown, so the safe solution is ban using multiplier

Honestly, base jiren is stronger than belmond, UI omen 3 is stronger than base jiren, full power jiren is way above ui omen 3, and MUI goku scales above full power jiren, and enraged MUI goku scales WAY above a casual mui goku, I legit doubt that it is just 1.1x stronger than GoDs

UI Omen 3 is not stronger than Jiren, he got absolutely stomp by Jiren, only Complete UI > Full power base Jiren and probably > GoDs with unknownable power gap

 

[Hasty12345]

Honestly, base jiren is stronger than belmond, UI omen 3 is stronger than base jiren, full power jiren is way above ui omen 3, and MUI goku scales above full power jiren, and enraged MUI goku scales WAY above a casual mui goku, I legit doubt that it is just 1.1x stronger than GoDs

credulity isn't an argument.

 

[Hasty12345]

Angel are scale because Whis and Vados are going to stop a 2-C destruction from Beerus and Champa, but because the feat is close to happen, but not happen, they have a Likely 2-C rating

but it took 2 Angels, so for the same reason Beerus and Champa AREN'T 2-C the Angels shouldn't either.

 

[Bernkastelll]

credulity isn't an argument.

After all the scaling chain, "credulity isnt an argument" is everything that u say to counter it?

 

[Hasty12345]

After all the scaling chain, "credulity isnt an argument" is everything that u say to counter it?

it's all I need to say, the burden is on you to quantify the scaling chain to prove it's 2x>Beerus/Champa.

And this is why I find these ratings so ridiculous, as the likelihood of getting such quantification is very low and no other verse is treated like this.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Where the hell it is stated that Beerus stronger than all other GoDs, Beerus is not treated in this wiki as stronger than other GoD, stop spreading false information

Beerus' justification in the wiki literally claims that he should be superior to some of the other GoDs.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

or, they could just be 1.1x stronger or some other number less than 2, which is why I said the angels should be downgraded to low 2-C as there's no proof they're exactly 2 or more times stronger than a GoD (even if it feels like they should).

IMO even if they are unknown gaps it should still be enough to jump them to the next tier it's only 2x, in db 2x means your much stronger than your opponent and my scaling chain shows this. In the case of UI goku and gogeta and hidden power jiren, they literally stomped characters who are stronger than half low 2-C. This is more than 2x and easily justifies why they should be 2-C

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

First of all, people are taking the note out of context. A Low 2-C cannot reach 2-C via multipliers, that part is true. However, the combined might of 2 GoD is baseline 2-C, in which individually makes each of them half of that and thus massively above baseline Low 2-C. But we cannot assume multipliers as our rules on multipliers are extra strict when it comes to Tier 2 and above characters. Beerus is above the average GoD, but not overwhelmingly so. And Jiren has no evidence of being overwhelmingly stronger than Beerus or Belmod, only that he's at least as strong possibly above. Same goes for Broly and SSB Gogeta. The Angels on the other hand are fine where they are at.

Finally, it's far too circular to bring up this topic at this point and I highly doubt AKM Sama and other main Dragon Ball staff are interested in coming here again. So I think it would be best of the thread was locked.

 

[Hasty12345]

IMO even if they are unknown gaps it should still be enough to jump them to the next tier it's only 2x, in db 2x means your much stronger than your opponent and my scaling chain shows this. In the case of UI goku and gogeta and hidden power jiren, they literally stomped characters who are stronger than half low 2-C. This is more than 2x and easily justifies why they should be 2-C

But the problem is they don't inherently have to be 2x greater for the scaling chain to still be true.

 

[Bernkastelll]

it's all I need to say, the burden is on you to quantify the scaling chain to prove it's 2x>Beerus/Champa.

Complete UI goku was stomping base Jiren, to stomp.something u need to be a lot of times stronger, this is how it is rated here, and then, MUI being stronger than full power jiren that scales way above base jiren

 

[Hasty12345]

First of all, people are taking the note out of context. A Low 2-C cannot reach 2-C via multipliers, that part is true. However, the combined might of 2 GoD is baseline 2-C

Whis

Martial arts isn't like street fighting. It's not like just blindly attacking will be effective. You calculate your distance, sense your opponents' rhythm and movements, find your opportunity, and take advantage of it. Only a true martial artist could do that. It's more than just being a simple...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Vados

Vados (ヴァドス) is a character who appears in Dragon Ball Super. She is the sister of Whis, and serves as the attendant and martial arts teacher of Champa the Destroyer. Tier: 2-C Name: Vados Origin: Dragon Ball Gender: Female Age: Unknown. Likely hundreds of million years old. Classification...

vsbattles.fandom.com

The angels shouldn't be 2-C for one shotting 1 GoD when it requires 2 to be 2-C, that's effectively using a multiplier when they could both just be 1.99x their GoD and thus not be 2-C.

So by the same logic the GoD's and Gogeta etc etc aren't 2-C, the NAgels should also be at least low 2-C.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

This is so silly, special case or not, I feel Beerus and Champa should be flat out 2-C or the angels get downgraded to low 2-C. This spits on the faces of every other verse on the wiki.

Also, assuming the Angels are 2-C for being 2x stronger than the GoD's is also dumb as we don't know if you need to be 2x stronger than 2 individuals to take both of them on.

assuming Beerus = Champa, if Whis was 1.5x Beerus, he could still potentially one tap both of them, I don't see where 2-C angels even comes from.

Whis is not 2X stronger than Beerus, he is >= the feat itself.

Whis>= 2C feat=Beerus and Champa
Big difference between both,

Also.

And 2) dividing a 2C(2 space-times) ends up between low2C and 2C.
3) multiplying from baseline low2C also ends up between low2C and 2C.
Thats why we rate Beerus and Champa as low2C albiet above baseline.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Actually, false equivalency. Vados' barrier is stronger than the combined might of Beerus and Champa with a casual strike being above that. So Angels are 2-C scaling from her.

 

[Hasty12345]

Whis is not 2X stronger than Beerus, he is >= the feat itself.

Whis>= 2C feat=Beerus and Champa
Big difference between both,

Also.

And 2) dividing a 2C(2 space-times) ends up between low2C and 2C.
3) multiplying from baseline low2C also ends up between low2C and 2C.
Thats why we rate Beerus and Champa as low2C albiet above baseline.

to be clear, I think they should all just be flat out 2-C and I think this overly strict standard being imposed on DB is ridiculous, hence why I'm applying this overly strict logic to other characters who seemingly the logic doesn't apply to.

 

[Arceus0x]

Prove it mathematically.

Let's do some drawings.
I am not a dbs supporter but might as well jump in.

This is what we use normally with multipliers

(universe1)????????????(universe2)
the ??????? could be _ or _____ or ________________

but this is DBS
(universe1)????????????(universe2)
and beerus can destroy: (universe1)?????? out of the (universe1)????????????(universe2)
(universe1)?????? + (universe1)?????? is equal to (universe1)????????????(universe2)

 

[Bernkastelll]

Actually, false equivalency. Vados' barrier is stronger than the combined might of Beerus and Champa with a casual strike being above that. So Angels are 2-C scaling from her.

So, why they are likely 2-C instead of 2-C

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

to be clear, I think they should all just be flat out 2-C and I think this overly strict standard being imposed on DB is ridiculous, hence why I'm applying this overly strict logic to other characters who seemingly the logic doesn't apply to.

I didn't read all comments you made afterwards, I replied to your last page comments, so I was unaware of that.

So it took 2 angels to stop 2C feat?? Can you give quick summary of what you said?

 

[manu_zarri]

there are nothing related to math to prove, like i said before, the distant between 2 space-time is unknown, so the safe solution is ban using multiplier

There is many way to calculate this, Tier 2 isn't incalculable, nothing can't be calculabe, Tier 2 calcs are just "uncontable infinite" or similiar thing.

 

[Hasty12345]

Vados' barrier is stronger than the combined might of Beerus and Champa

I'm sorry, could I get scans for this? it escapes me what you're referring too.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Actually, false equivalency. Vados' barrier is stronger than the combined might of Beerus and Champa with a casual strike being above that. So Angels are 2-C scaling from her.

Okay , yes this clears it up. So single Angel still maintain superiority over 2C feat, not 2 angels as Hasty said. Thats nice.
So 2C for any Single Angel is still valid even if likely.

 

[manu_zarri]

Let's do some drawings.
I am not a dbs supporter but might as well jump in.

This is what we use normally with multipliers

(universe1)????????????(universe2)
the ??????? could be _ or _____ or ________________

but this is DBS
(universe1)????????????(universe2)
and beerus can destroy: (universe1)?????? out of the (universe1)????????????(universe2)
(universe1)?????? + (universe1)?????? is equal to (universe1)????????????(universe2)

what is this.

OK so, im going to use just simple stuff. 2 (Set of) uncontable infinite/2 = Still 2 (Set of) uncontable, but with wiki context and standards, on lower degree, meaning it's not baseline 2-C and neither 2-C, but it's half 2-C.

Jiren is stronger than gods and than that. Gods seen as a set grammatically. So he is above a lower 2 set of uncontable infinite. meaning he is probably 2 uncontable infinite, aka 2-C

we can use other stuff too