2-A Pokemon Upgrade Revival: The Time Has Come

[theultimate5105]

I fully agree now

 

[Starsprite53]

I agree as well with the upgrade

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

I agree as well; between the multiple infinite/countless statements and the overall MWI cosmology of the verse such as blatant parallel worlds (as shown in both Gen 6 and 7) not to mention the dream worlds, spirit world, ultra space, etc.

It all checks out for me but I wouldn't mind likely/possibly 2-A either.

Now I'll leave this CRT ASAP!

 

[Gohanblanco217]

I agree

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

It's not even about being flowery, just aimed at space and time and not the spaces and times of all universes. It can also be flowery anyway as that's what people do and this statement is a personal take given outside the game. And why the heck is "both" in bold there?

And I've already explained how it being "just aimed at space and time and not the spaces and times" is not the case here.

Space is referring to the number of universes and the very being who represents it is known as the creator of parallel universes, which also refers to the number of universes. It being "just aimed" at the space and time of the worlds has no basis and makes no sense.

"as it's directly explaining the space-time relationship in the verse"

Doesn't make it less poetic than any poetic claim made to directly explain relationships and other things that matter a lot.

Its outright saying infinite. There's nothing poetic about it. Especially when used together with the rest of the given supporting evidence.

"speaking about the roles the god tiers have in the verse's cosmology"

As before.

"and is giving explicit context and information about the cosmology"

As before.

And see above too.

"And the basis for this is from WoG, giving the T.C.G. statement and especially Lucian's statement (which is coming from Lore in Canalave Library and not something he just conjured up on the fly) a strong leg to stand on"

As before, and again, it has no reason to refer to all spaces in all universes and all times in all universes, but space and time, which end as the universe ends or at best don't end if they're really infinite, making a universe of that size, but not making infinite of them.

And see above too. Your point is from incredulity and has absolutely no reason to refer to the size of the worlds instead of the outright numbers of them, which I prove is what its referring to in my blog far more than your baseless alternate head canon.

The text given below Masuda's quote saying why it has to refer to infinite universes "in this context" is another case where I find that that the logic used doesn't make sense, like saying a lot of random words and then finishing with "therefore the sky is red", the multiverse has a lot of universes and time and space are infinite therefore there are infinite universes?

No, that's putting my actual point from the blog as a understatement.

The point is that time and space, which is being cited as infinite, refers to the number of universes in the Multiverse. Not simply because the Multiverse has a vast amount of universes. And because they refer to number, and are cited as infinite, it brings us to infinite universes. Extremely simple.

And is given far more support than whatever baseless scenario you're trying to conjure up.

So time and space aren't infinite in size but infinite in amounts of them, and that's literally not the information given to us.

It literally is information given to us.

 

[Zencha9]

tbh i was hesitant at first but after reading the blog it actually convinced me
so me agree

 

[Garchomp777]

And I've already explained how it being "just aimed at space and time and not the spaces and times" is not the case here.

Space is referring to the number of universes and the very being who represents it is known as the creator of parallel universes, which also refers to the number of universes. It being "just aimed" at the space and time of the worlds has no basis and makes no sense.

Its outright saying infinite. There's nothing poetic about it. Especially when used together with the rest of the given supporting evidence.

And see above too.

And see above too. Your point is from incredulity and has absolutely no reason to refer to the size of the worlds instead of the outright numbers of them, which I prove is what its referring to in my blog far more than your baseless alternate head canon.

No, that's putting my actual point from the blog as a understatement.

The point is that time and space, which is being cited as infinite, refers to the number of universes in the Multiverse. Not simply because the Multiverse has a vast amount of universes. And because they refer to number, and are cited as infinite, it brings us to infinite universes. Extremely simple.

And is given far more support than whatever baseless scenario you're trying to conjure up.

It literally is information given to us.

Fax

 

[Oleggator]

Ok, that's actually cool.
Also agreeing.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Agreeing:

26 Non-staff: (Oleggator, Zencha9, GohanBlanko, The_Axiom_of_Virgo, Starsprite53, GlaceonGamez471, Asriel77, Lord_JJJ, Greenshifter, Greatlskander, Shmooply, ShadowWarrior, Planck69, Psychomaster35, Crimson_Shadow101, StrymULTRA, ShadowGamerOmega, Bobsican, Half_Shiny, TheQuirkyBoy, Rikimarox2, PlozAlcachaz, Sadistic_Sleuth, theultimate5105, deonment, Hasty12345)

2 Staff (DarkDragonmedus, KieranH10)

In total: 28 in favor.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Agreeing:

26 Non-staff: (Oleggator, Zencha9, GohanBlanko, The_Axiom_of_Virgo, Starsprite53, GlaceonGamez471, Asriel77, Lord_JJJ, Greenshifter, Greatlskander, Shmooply, ShadowWarrior, Planck69, Psychomaster35, Crimson_Shadow101, StrymULTRA, ShadowGamerOmega, Bobsican, Half_Shiny, TheQuirkyBoy, Rikimarox2, PlozAlcachaz, Sadistic_Sleuth, theultimate5105, deonment, Hasty12345)

2 Staff (DarkDragonmedus, KieranH10)

In total: 28 in favor.

I also agree with the OP so put me there to

 

[Planck69]

Shouldn't the staff be prompted? We already have more than enough non-staff support. Now it's time for them to decide.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I also agree with the OP so put me there to

You were counted.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Shouldn't the staff be prompted? We already have more than enough non-staff support. Now it's time for them to decide.

Oh I know that. We're definitely waiting. Im just keeping up with the total agreeing tally.

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

I agree with the OP. This should have been a thing long time ago tbh

 

[The_Pink_God]

i dunno if im too late
but i agree with it

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

This makes sense

 

[Rikimarox2]

Didn't think anything will convince me of 2-A Pokemon.

I was wrong.

I agree with the upgrade.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Agreeing:

30 Non-staff: (Rikimarox2, Adam_Warlock69, Pink999999, Ottavio, Oleggator, Zencha9, GohanBlanko, The_Axiom_of_Virgo, Starsprite53, GlaceonGamez471, Asriel77, Lord_JJJ, Greenshifter, Greatlskander, Shmooply, ShadowWarrior, Planck69, Psychomaster35, Crimson_Shadow101, StrymULTRA, ShadowGamerOmega, Bobsican, Half_Shiny, TheQuirkyBoy, Rikimarox2, PlozAlcachaz, Sadistic_Sleuth, theultimate5105, deonment, Hasty12345)

2 Staff (DarkDragonmedus, KieranH10)

In total: 32 in favor.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Didn't think anything will convince me of 2-A Pokemon.

I was wrong.

Well that is a Professors job after all

 

[Thelastmlg]

Space = palkia and alternate universes, so an infinite amount of space is the same as calling palkia and the alternate universes infinite.

Same deal with dialga, so i agree.

If not, this would upgrade every universe related feat there into high 3-A (and give infinite speed if there is any feat like that)

So win-win

 

[Planck69]

Space = palkia and alternate universes, so an infinite amount of space is the same as calling palkia and the alternate universes infinite.

Same deal with dialga, so i agree.

If not, this would upgrade every universe related feat there into high 3-A (and give infinite speed if there is any feat like that)

So win-win

What's funny is that taking it to just mean a single universe is both 2-A via MWI and still upgrades all universe feats to High 3-A. Of course, the current stance is solid enough.

 

[Thelastmlg]

What's MWI again?

yo on second thought, i think it just means one universe, totally don't wanna upgrade 2 types of feats.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

What's MWI again?

Many-Worlds Interpretation.

 

[StrawHatArslan]

I am in favor of this upgrade. Definitely makes sense.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Agreeing:

32 Non-staff: (StrawHatArslan, Thelastmlg, Rikimarox2, Adam_Warlock69, Pink999999, Ottavio, Oleggator, Zencha9, GohanBlanko, The_Axiom_of_Virgo, Starsprite53, GlaceonGamez471, Asriel77, Lord_JJJ, Greenshifter, Greatlskander, Shmooply, ShadowWarrior, Planck69, Psychomaster35, Crimson_Shadow101, StrymULTRA, ShadowGamerOmega, Bobsican, Half_Shiny, TheQuirkyBoy, Rikimarox2, PlozAlcachaz, Sadistic_Sleuth, theultimate5105, deonment, Hasty12345)

2 Staff (DarkDragonmedus, KieranH10)

In total: 34 in favor.

 

[StrawHatArslan]

Also, nice thread, you took a good amount of time to make the upgrade revisions.

 

[Peppypony]

Wow, I remember when Arceus beat Bill Cipher when we had him at 2-A and I said Adventure Time was more powerful than Pokémon.

Now Arceus probably solos all of Western Animation.

 

[TheShieldToronto76]

I agree with OP

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Wow, I remember when Arceus beat Bill Cipher when we had him at 2-A and I said Adventure Time was more powerful than Pokémon.

Now Arceus probably solos all of Western Animation.

Whats your takeaway on this?

 

[Bobsican]

Okay, I've bothered reading everything as this is not something to be taken lightly and all as usual, and I have to agree with the ideas proposed by the OP, the context supports the usage of "infinities" in a way that match up what to us is 2-A and all.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Agreeing:

34 Non-staff: (Bobsican, MikeBro25, StrawHatArslan, Thelastmlg, Rikimarox2, Adam_Warlock69, Pink999999, Ottavio, Oleggator, Zencha9, GohanBlanko, The_Axiom_of_Virgo, Starsprite53, GlaceonGamez471, Asriel77, Lord_JJJ, Greenshifter, Greatlskander, Shmooply, ShadowWarrior, Planck69, Psychomaster35, Crimson_Shadow101, StrymULTRA, ShadowGamerOmega, Bobsican, Half_Shiny, TheQuirkyBoy, Rikimarox2, PlozAlcachaz, Sadistic_Sleuth, theultimate5105, deonment, Hasty12345)

2 Staff (DarkDragonmedus, KieranH10)

In total: 36 in favor.

 

[SomebodyData]

You should also be writing down who disagrees, imo.

Also, not sure why everyone rejected it being flowery language:

The relationship between all these Pokemon is the key element. I wanted to express the importance of the balance between substance — Dialga, the ruler of Time, and Palkia, the ruler of Space — and spirit — Uxie, Mesprit, Azelf. If the substance becomes too large, the balance of the spirit collapses. I wanted Dialga and Palkia to become counterparts for a sense of balance. Infinite time and infinite space — that to me is the ‘ultimate.'"

He is being pretty straightforward that he's talking about the idea of Dialga, Palkia, and the spirit trio; not their actual tiering or anything.

 

[StrymULTRA]

You should also be writing down who disagrees, imo.

Also, not sure why everyone rejected it being flowery language:

The relationship between all these Pokemon is the key element. I wanted to express the importance of the balance between substance — Dialga, the ruler of Time, and Palkia, the ruler of Space — and spirit — Uxie, Mesprit, Azelf. If the substance becomes too large, the balance of the spirit collapses. I wanted Dialga and Palkia to become counterparts for a sense of balance. Infinite time and infinite space — that to me is the ‘ultimate.'"

He is being pretty straightforward that he's talking about the idea of Dialga, Palkia, and the spirit trio; not their actual tiering or anything.

It actually is, Space being Infinite is stated from also other sources, not just him

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

You should also be writing down who disagrees, imo.

I didn't because the disagreeing arguments hardly have any reasoning or points to them, and the bits that are mentioned I already countered in the blog.

Also, not sure why everyone rejected it being flowery language:

The relationship between all these Pokemon is the key element. I wanted to express the importance of the balance between substance — Dialga, the ruler of Time, and Palkia, the ruler of Space — and spirit — Uxie, Mesprit, Azelf. If the substance becomes too large, the balance of the spirit collapses. I wanted Dialga and Palkia to become counterparts for a sense of balance. Infinite time and infinite space — that to me is the ‘ultimate.'"

He is being pretty straightforward that he's talking about the idea of Dialga, Palkia, and the spirit trio; not their actual tiering or anything.

What you bolded out has absolutely nothing to do with the scale of what he's specifying time and space as being. Which is infinite.

 

[StrymULTRA]

What you bolded out has absolutely nothing to do with the scale of what he's specifying time and space as being. Which is infinite.

^
Also WoG can't be flowery if it's supporting things claimed from also a lore fact (Lucian) and an actual description (TCG)

Plus there's the whole Reflection Cave, and what Space means in context.

As told before, Space = All the parallel dimensions, make 2 + 2 and you got Infinite.

 

[SomebodyData]

Professor The scale of flowery language is still a part of the flowery language.

Strym That's not how flowery language works. Flowery language can be consistent with other aspects (it'd be weirder if it wasn't) but still be flowery.

Flowery language doesn't depend on the context of the verse, since it's not a vs debating term or the like. It's just a language trope, so you have to prove it's not flowery language from within the response itself.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Professor The scale of flowery language is still flowery language.

Strym That's not how flowery language works. Flowery language can be consistent with other aspects (it'd be weirder if it wasn't) but still be flowery.

Flowery language doesn't depend on the context of the verse, since it's not a vs debating term or the like. It's just a language trope, so you have to prove it's not flowery language from within the response itself.

Oh my god are you fr?

How's that flowery if he's describing the roles of the PokeGods

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Professor The scale of flowery language is still flowery language.

Strym That's not how flowery language works. Flowery language can be consistent with other aspects (it'd be weirder if it wasn't) but still be flowery.

Then its a good thing there's nothing flowery about it, and what you tried pointing out doesn't equate to that.

 

[SomebodyData]

Styrm

"I wanted to express the importance of the balance between substance — Dialga, the ruler of Time, and Palkia, the ruler of Space — and spirit — Uxie, Mesprit, Azelf."

He acknowledges their actual roles and puts them in context within the themes Strym, if you're not being sarcastic with your response(?) Not to mention the rest of the paragraph is also just him talking about the theme he focused on when developing the game.

Professor

You're telling me, you don't see how the flowery language? I mean, the entire paragraph from beginning to end is literally about what he wanted the game to come across as, this seems more like denial by the majority than anything.

 

[M2B3]

OP has it a little bit backwards. It's his interpretation that is """flowery""", not the actual concrete meaning of infinite space = actual infinite space.

With that said, not a single instance of usage of the word space, as presented in the google doc, is even remotely referring to parallel universes whatsoever. In fact, in some of the cases provided it's not even remotely dubious yet they are misrepresented to mean parallel universes instead anyways.