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Gremmy Thoumeaux vs Ji Ning - Battle for 4th Strongest High 6-A (Non-Smurf)

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Purgy said:
What is Ji Ning's first move?
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Soul hax is one of the most common, as it is thought based and Ning isn't the type to rush unknown enemies.

But he also has his conceptual lock which is even more useful for him to use than his soul hax and is much better at actually testing the strength of his opponents by his verse standards, so he may use it first.
 
Gremmy's first move (at least offensively) would be EE'ing Ji Ning from existence, similar to what he did against Lee, this would erase his body, mind, soul and fundamental information on a deeper level than what NEP (Nature: Type 1) could erase. Which is something that i don't believe Ji Ning resist's nor can he regenerate from.
 
Two things to note

Is Gremmy even eligible for this role given he‘s only this tier with clones?

Gremmy beating ning when Yhwach can’t is funny.
 
Deceived3596 said:
Gremmy's first move (at least offensively) would be EE'ing Ji Ning from existence, similar to what he did against Lee, this would erase his body, mind, soul and fundamental information on a deeper level than what NEP (Nature: Type 1) could erase. Which is something that i don't believe Ji Ning resist's nor can he regenerate from.
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Gremmy didn't do that against Rose, Kensei, Yachiru or Kenpachi.

He likely only did that against Lee because he's his own creation, and not something he typically does against every opponent he comes across.
 
Damage3245 said:
Gremmy didn't do that against Rose, Kensei, Yachiru or Kenpachi.
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So? he it did against Lee, which was his first offensive usage of the ability. Stop bringing up distinctions without proving why said distinctions matter. This is like, the third time today i heard this argument and i always respond with the same argument.

Damage3245 said:
He likely only did that against Lee because he's his own creation, and not something he typically does against every opponent he comes across.
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Cool assumption.
 
Well, if this is an instant-win for Gremmy like you say it is then this is a stomp-match and shouldn't go on the profiles. Fun thread.
 
Does he really start with EE? In all his fights, did he always/most of the time start with EE?

If so, and if it's thought-based, then he likely wins.
 
It isn't supposed to go onto the profiles, it's for placing on the non-smurf list, which is why i made sure to state within the name of the thread itself it's specifically for that list.

These types of threads aren't made to go onto the profiles, they're made to gain placements on that list.
 
Rikimarox2 said:
Does he really start with EE? In all his fights, did he always/ or most of the time start with EE?

If so, and if it's thought-based, then he likely wins.
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He only fights once in the manga and he starts that fight by EE'ing someone. It's quite literally his first offensive usage of his ability. So yes, he really does start with EE.
 
Gremmy used EE as his first move once even assuming it wasn’t a special case (it was), he overwhelmingly does not start with EE, Also this is actually a fight and Gremmy has never used EE in a direct fight (or at all outside of that showing)
 
theultimate5105 said:
Gremmy used EE as his first move once even assuming it wasn’t a special case (it was), he overwhelmingly does not start with EE, Also this is actually a fight and Gremmy has never used EE in a direct fight (or at all outside of that showing)
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Cool concession, also claiming it to be a special case doesn't mean it is until you can actually prove why it's a special case, this isn't how burden of proof works.

He overwhelmingly does start with EE, because he quite literally did against Lee. To act like he doesn't would just be blatantly dishonest. He also does use his EE in a direct fight, he uses against Kenpachi to erase some rubble which was thrown at him. You shouldn't be talking about things you aren't knowledgeable on.
 
To be honest we don't actually know when Gremmy killed the Captains in relation to EEing Guenael, all we know is that they were already dead by the time he's shown, you could claim that his first move is death manip.

Though wouldn't bloodlusting both of them solve this issue? Or is that not allowed?
 
The amount of assumptions that people are making in this thread so Gremmy doesn't start out with EE is ******* absurd, it's literally his first offensive action in the series, why would this situation be any different from said interaction.

And don't say "muh creation" because you can't prove why said distinction actually matters, so it's meaningless to bring it up.
 
Deceived3596 said:
Cool concession, also claiming it to be a special case doesn't mean it is until you can actually prove why it's a special case, this isn't how burden of proof works.
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It is literally his own creation, nobody else that he uses it on is his own creation and surprise surprise he doesn’t use it on them
Deceived3596 said:
He overwhelmingly does start with EE, because he quite literally did against Lee. To act like he doesn't would just be blatantly dishonest. He also does use his EE in a direct fight, he uses against Kenpachi to erase some rubble which was thrown at him. You shouldn't be talking about things you aren't knowledgeable on.
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And what did he use in every other scene and fight he was in, definitely not EE, Erasing rubble does not mean anything to erasing someone directly.
Also Ji Ning as I recall starts with thought based offensive hax so at best it is incon
 
theultimate5105 said:
It is literally his own creation, nobody else that he uses it on is his own creation and surprise surprise he doesn’t use it on them
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That's literally an assumption on your part, saying "it is literally his own creation" doesn't prove anything, you're just restating the obvious and acting like proves anything, it doesn't. Google what burden of proof is.

The lack of him EE'ing anybody else isn't innate evidence for your claim dude, especially when it's directly shown he can erase things which aren't his creations. Actually read his profile.

theultimate5105 said:
And what did he use in every other scene and fight he was in, definitely not EE, Erasing rubble does not mean anything to erasing someone directly.
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It does, it means he can erase things which aren't his creation, and since the fact EE is one of his go to offensive usages of his ability he'd be able to erase Ji Ning just like he does Lee and the rubble.

theultimate5105 said:
Also Ji Ning as I recall starts with thought based offensive hax so at best it is incon
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No it doesn't, because Ji Ning's thought-based stuff is dependent on him having higher Soul Manipulation layers than Gremmy, which hasn't been discussed yet. The only thing that Gremmy doesn't currently resist is the Conceptual Lock, but it wouldn't matter because Ji Ning would be erased from existence or imagined dead by Gremmy.
 
Ning started with conceptual lock in this key on at least two separate occasions and the times he didn't do this was against opponents he knew beforehand weren't gonna be affected.

Also like, if this guy has been in more than one fight and has only started with EE once, idk if I'd call it an opening move. Course, if this is proven then it'd be a stomp for Gremmy I suppose.
 
Deceived3596 said:
It does, it means he can erase things which aren't his creation, and since the fact EE is one of his go to offensive usages of his ability he'd be able to erase Ji Ning just like he does Lee and the rubble.
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Isn't the rubble that he erased from the stage that Gremmy created?
 
Planck69 said:
Ning started with conceptual lock in this key on at least two separate occasions and the times he didn't do this was against opponents he knew beforehand weren't gonna be affected.

Also like, if this guy has been in more than one fight and has only started with EE once, idk if I'd call it an opening move.
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He's only been in one fight and used EE twice, once to erase a character and once to erase rubble.
 
Planck69 said:
Also like, if this guy has been in more than one fight and has only started with EE once, idk if I'd call it an opening move.
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He only has one fight, that's was against Kenpachi, and there's plot reasons why he didn't use his more haxxy abilities, which explains why he didn't instantly erase Kenpachi from existence or imagine him dying.

The others where just interactions he had leading up to that fight, what i'm arguing is that during these interactions, which is when he first used the offensive capabilities of his ability, he erased Lee from existence and death manip'd Rose and Love. And i'm saying why would this fight be any different from these interactions he had?.
 
So, he's killed one dude with it and done cleanup. Does he do anything else in the entire manga or is it just this?
 
This whole argument is stupid and shows people didn't really understand Gremmy V Kenpachi.

Gremmy normally haxes people into oblivion with his more powerful things like EE. Gremmy didn't do this to Kenpachi only because Kenpachi through his brutish strength made Gremmy want to prove his strength. That's the entire narrative of their fight. There is no reason Gremmy wouldn't hax **** through things like EE, which he did to everyone but Kenpachi for plot specific reasons.
Damage3245 said:
He's been in three on-screen fights.
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He used EE in two of them and started with EE in one. Only reason he didn't against kenny I explained.
 
Also like, he's locked down afterwards and Ning's Primaltwin is still alive to finish him anyway while he's immobile. So does this even matter?
 
Purgy said:
Yes

I wouldn't call those fights, he only really fought Kenpachi in an actual battle.
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Well if you say he's only had "one" fight and that was against Kenpachi, then he didn't use EE as an opening move in that fight then...

Either way, I'd call all three of thsoe fights.
 
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