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10-A Tournament Round 2, Match 13 (Dr. Kondraki VS Mr. Bigglesworth)

What simply stops Kondraki from blinding it with 515-ARC or fooling it with 408’s illusions?
 
Him starting in range to spam his ice attacks with an AP advantage, and unless 408 has shown a resistance to ice manipulation Bigglesworth was in Naxxramus for the longest time and will just blast those butterflies with ice, freezing their wings and dropping them to the floor, the illusions will fool Bigglesworth but when he has been around Abominations and about every scourge unit there is? But yeah eventually either Kondraki gets frozen to death or Bigglesworth gets burned to death
 
Wouldnt it be possible that the 408’s illusions would buy out time until Kondraki can blind it while its distracted? It has cat intelligence, after all.
 
Psychomaster35 said:
Wouldnt it be possible that the 427’s illusions would buy out time until Kondraki can blind it while its distracted? It has cat intelligence, after all.
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Depends on what the illusions look like, if its scary it will get ignored considering the scourge ranges from skeletons to sewed together woman and children whose souls still cry out in fear, repeating their last moments(Thaddius) to giant undead skeletal dragons, this cat has seen some shit, if not then probably
 
They can pretty much form anything with the illusions, and even turn Kondraki invisible
 
DaReaperMan said:
Him starting in range to spam his ice attacks with an AP advantage, and unless 408 has shown a resistance to ice manipulation Bigglesworth was in Naxxramus for the longest time and will just blast those butterflies with ice, freezing their wings and dropping them to the floor, the illusions will fool Bigglesworth but when he has been around Abominations and about every scourge unit there is? But yeah eventually either Kondraki gets frozen to death or Bigglesworth gets burned to death
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If they start in range for Ice spam to be a thing, Speed being Equalized means Kondraki isn't going to escape range, & the ice will encompass both Kondraki & the Butterflies, & Kondraki has no resistance to Ice Manipulation, then I imagine he gets frozen solid.
Not to mention, a camera will probably fail if ice gets on its circuit boards or in its wiring or such, & butterflies suck at flying when they have ice or water on their wings. Also, they need to fly into patterns to make their illusions.

Odds are, illusions become a non-option from the start if the butterflies are in the area of effect of Bigglesworth's attacks; The butterflies will either be too dead, wet or frozen to attack.
& the camera might not work at all, for similar reasons. (Not to mention, the camera's heating effects might melt ice, turning ice in the camera to water, & flash-boiling any frozen butterflies.)

Sure, Kondraki has options, too, but as a scientist & a fugitive. I assume an analytical approach may be more likely. & that's IF he doesn't realize Bigglesworth isn't a normal cat.

Yes, sure, Bigglesworth IS going to show he's not a normal cat within the first moment of the match, but that first moment is the moment that matters, & stopping to think about what to do or such probably costs Kondraki more time than he can spare, an issue of opportunity he probably won't know about UNTIL bigglesworth is already freezing all his stuff.
Not to mention, as said, unless Speed Equal lets them arrange an illusion fast enough, since the illusions are based on Butterfly arrangements, Bigglesworth can just kill the illusions; The magical cat sees a swarm of butterflies gathering, he shoots them before they form anything coherent, no illusions for Kondraki.

Sure, Kondraki COULD make an illusion at the very first moment. But at the very first moment, neither has done anything, so they don't know anything about each other. He just knows this is a cat, & he wants it defeated; Ergo, Kondraki's idea of a good illusion might be a big scary dog to scare the cat away.

Which presumably won't work because Bigglesworth regularly fights monsters scarier than barking dogs. Scary dog turns to dead butterflies, Kondraki's cover is blown, & whether he burns Bigglesworth with the camera or not, the doctor is turned to a human popsicle.


That sound about right?

Because that's my reason for voting Mr. Bigglesworth, currently.
 
Everyone has knowledge of each other, so they already know their abilities, but since this is a cat, I doubt it even understands the knowledge.

Has the range for his ice been AoE or single target? Because if its single target, then I’m pretty sure that Kondraki sets up 408 to use as his defenses before using 515-ARC to blind it so it would miss its attacks more if it lands.
 
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Psychomaster35 said:
Everyone has knowledge of each other, so they already know their abilities, but since this is a cat, I doubt it even understands the knowledge.
Click to expand...
Oh right, I forgot that. Still, I wonder if that would mean Bigglesworth knows that if he sees butterflies gathering, weird things he sees afterwards are illusions? Presumably, he'd know most weird things are butterflies, right?
 
Popted2 said:
what are bigglesworth and kondraki win conditions?
Click to expand...
Bigglesworth, apparently, in-character spams ice, due to him being a Magical beast familiar from WoW who does just that in canon. So presumably, his win con is just freezing solid/ice-shishkabob-ing the enemy until it's frozen solid &/or dead.
Kondraki's seems to be trying to get cover by either hiding in Central Park while using his butterflies to make illusions/cover & using his magical camera to burn/blind.

As I argued, the issue with Kondraki's is he's more likely to use time thinking, readying equipment or analyzing or ordering his butterflies.
Even with prior knowledge, doing any of those probably takes longer than it takes for Bigglesworth to kill the butterflies, disabling one of Kondraki's major defensive options, & since Bigglesworth is probably attacking from the start (Which, as said, is with ice IC.) Kondraki has that much less time to hide or such.

Not to mention, ice screws up butterflies (Condensed/frozen water ruins their abilities to fly even if they live or aren't fully exposed to the cold.) & probably breaks the camera. (Frozen buttons, frozen ice/water on potential circuitboards, etc.)

& trying to hide probably doesn't go well because, as his profile says Bigglesworth has Enhanced Senses for being a cat.
Smell:
Cats have more than 200 million odor sensors in their noses; humans have just 5 million. Their sense of smell is 14 times better than that of humans.
Hearing:
The feline sense of hearing is considerably more sensitive than dogs and humans (and many other mammals). A healthy cat's hearing ability is a true biological marvel. ... They can also “hear sounds at great distances – four or five times farther away than humans.”
A cat as far away as 3 feet from the origin of a sound can pinpoint its location to within a few inches in a mere six one-hundredths of a second. Cats also can hear sounds at great distances — four or five times farther away than humans!
Sight:
They have 6 to 8 times more rods than the human eye, giving cats the ability to see well in dim light and the ability to detect motion more accurately in the dark. Cats are nearsighted which means that what people can see clearly as far as 100 to 200 feet away, cats can only clearly see less than 20 feet away.
(A cat can see between 6 and 8 times more than people. They have a field of vision of 200 degrees, while that of humans is 180 and can detect the mood of its owner. Their whiskers are like sensors.) ( Domestic Cat )


& yes, cats are notedly nearsighted compared to humans, but they have better motion detection in dim light, as well as a larger field of vision, not to mention sense of smell & hearing.
So considering Bigglesworth's better sense of smell & hearing, equalized speed meaning equal travel speed (He's probably not getting more than 20 meters away if they start in that range.), & good motion detection for when Kondraki tries to run & hide, Kondraki can't hide very well here.

Also, yes he COULD try to blind Bigglesworth.
As nocturnal creatures, cats are more sensitive to light than humans. While they can't see in total darkness, cats require only one-sixth the amount of light as that of a person to see.
But that requires that Bigglesworth be facing the camera to see the light (If you're behind someone's back or to their side, they aren't facing the camera you hold.), which often works against the goal of hiding behind cover & using (butterfly based) illusions. (& many of the butterflies are probably dying ASAP.)
Also, it requires the camera work, which it might not if it's frozen, has ice or melted water gunking up its circuits, or if the camera has been implaed by an icicle.
 
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i think i vote for Kondraki if he blind him with the camera h could have enough time to hit him with the butterflies also yeah Kondraki could allways outsmat him
 
Popted2 said:
i think i vote for Kondraki if he blind him with the camera h could have enough time to hit him with the butterflies also yeah Kondraki could allways outsmat him
Click to expand...
As I already said: Sense of smell 14 times better than a human's, can hear sounds 4 or 5 times farther away, & a cat as far away as 3 feet from the origin of a sound can pinpoint its location to within a few inches in a mere six one-hundredths of a second.

Mr. Bigglesowrth DOESN'T NEED sight to find Kondraki; He can track him by hearing & follow.

Also, outsmart how? With which tactic? It's a cat spamming ice magic & chasing you; What's to outsmart, especially if you eliminate tricking its sense of sight from the equation?
(Though I do wish I had video footage of Bigglesworth attack animations. I think someone posted something like it in the previous thread?)
Plus, couldn't he just freeze Kondraki or his legs solid at the start? Or shoot the camera? (Multiple projectiles are a thing to help prevent Kondraki maneuver the camera away from being hit, & prior knowledge probably means light-&-sound-sensitive Bigglesworth would try to destroy the thing that he's been magically told makes sound & bright lights & burning pain.)

Also, even if Kondraki kills Bigglesworth....

Resurrection (Of himself, can only happen once before he is incapacitated), limited Invulnerability (When Mr. Bigglesworth resurrects himself he is invulnerable for a short time period)

Resurrected Bigglesworth probably isn't blinded or burned, & unlike Kondraki, probably isn't damaged.

Even if we equalized to the lowest travel speed (Kondraki's Average Human, which is at minimum, 5 meters per second, compared to Bigglesworth's 12.43 minimum Superhuman.), that's still several seconds where Bigglesworth is invulnerable, closing the distance, attacking, & Kondraki has probably lost his butterflies, taken damage, or lost his camera, or such.

& yes, Kondraki can TRY to run, since speed is equalized, but Bigglesworth has a wider field of view, better vision of motion, & eventually, Kondraki will start losing distance when he has to move around trees while dodging projectiles, or he will have to STOP running all together because of Central Park's huge body of water or a fence blocking his path.

Not to mention Bigglesworth is a cat in a place full of grass, trees, etc. At any time, Bigglesworth could be running, right, left or straight forward, or be in a tree;, or concealed by grass/plants, meaning Kondraki can easily lose track of what path he's being chased from.

After all, I'd presume Bigglesworth's ice projectiles DON'T necessarily spawn in from where Bigglesworth is, so knowing where the ice is coming from won't always tell you where the cat is.

& Blinding someone requires they see the light; If Kondraki doesn't know where the cat is, he doesn't know where to point his camera.

& as for the start of the match, Kondraki probably attacks later than Bigglesworth; Cat just has to cast a spell; Kondraki has to withdraw his camera, aim it at something far lower to the ground than himself (& moving.) & click.
 
Ice tomb is at first spawned from Bigglesworth's location before it hovers in the air for a few seconds and then yeets itself at the target, Howling Blast turns the air around the target to ice to deal Bigglesworth's AP in damage, Frost Nova is a big ass AOE that encompasses all of Bigglesworth's range to lock down anything caught in it with ice capable of trapping characters with Class 25 LS, and Ice Block puts a big ass wall of ice in front of Bigglesworth, he doesn't use it much anyway and he won't use it when he's chasing someone down
 
DaReaperMan said:
Ice tomb is at first spawned from Bigglesworth's location before it hovers in the air for a few seconds and then yeets itself at the target, Howling Blast turns the air around the target to ice to deal Bigglesworth's AP in damage, Frost Nova is a big ass AOE that encompasses all of Bigglesworth's range to lock down anything caught in it with ice capable of trapping characters with Class 25 LS, and Ice Block puts a big ass wall of ice in front of Bigglesworth, he doesn't use it much anyway and he won't use it when he's chasing someone down
Click to expand...
So he could just freeze Kondraki & his camera & Butterflies solid with Howling Blast or Frost Nova? (Freezing the air where the butterflies are would definitely disable them; Waterlogged flight is way harder, especially for bugs.)
 
By the way, small misconception, Bigglesworth never fought against any character from the scourge, they are all 9-B to 7-B to his 10-A/9-C, he has however been around them long enough to just be unbothered by something 100 times his size walking around and toward him, and he was unphazed by Naxxramus being invaded by 10-40 people
Imaginym said:
So he could just freeze Kondraki & his camera & Butterflies solid with Howling Blast or Frost Nova? (Freezing the air where the butterflies are would definitely disable them; Waterlogged flight is way harder, especially for bugs.)
Click to expand...
If Bigglesworth targets them, yes for the former and for the ladder it really doesn't matter where he uses it, if its in-range the AOE encompassing Bigglesworth's range does the rest.
 
DaReaperMan said:
By the way, small misconception, Bigglesworth never fought against any character from the scourge, they are all 9-B to 7-B to his 10-A/9-C, he has however been around them long enough to just be unbothered by something 100 times his size walking around and toward him, and he was unphazed by Naxxramus being invaded by 10-40 people

If Bigglesworth targets them, yes for the former and for the ladder it really doesn't matter where he uses it, if its in-range the AOE encompassing Bigglesworth's range does the rest.
Click to expand...
Keeping my vote as for Bigglesworth, then, given this (The 2nd line, especially.) as well as my lengthily-established reasoning above.
 
I mean kondraki would start with the camera before running severely burning the cat most likely before running.
 
Lou_change said:
I mean kondraki would start with the camera before running severely burning the cat most likely before running.
Click to expand...
& as I already said:

Speed is equalized, & Mr. Bigglesworth has incentive to pursue because not only is he hostile, but Kondraki is probably near the edge of his range; The cat wants this human defeated, & that probably means keeping his prey from escaping.
With speed equalized, Kondraki will have a hard time putting distance between them.

As for blinding, while it's possible it might work even if Bigglesworth isn't facing the camera's flash (Due to cat eyes being 6 times more light sensitive than human eyes.), blinding Bigglesworth probably won't help much because:

1. Cat sense of smell is roughly 14 times better than human sense of smell.
2. A cat as far away as 3 feet from the origin of a sound can pinpoint its location to within a few inches in a mere six one-hundredths of a second. Cats also can hear sounds at great distances — four or five times farther away than humans! (& Kondraki probably can be heard well, due to being at least 50 kg plus equipment & clothes running around.)
(Meaning Bigglesworth can still track Kondraki fairly well without his sight.)
3. Bigglesworth has a 1 time resurrection. Presumably, he'll come back with his sight in-tact. Not only that, this Resurrection grants temporary invulnerability.
4. Kondraki can't run forever; His path will start getting obstructed by trees, Central Park's bodies of water, or fences at some point. (Not to mention ice projectiles.)


Also, there's the start of the match. Prior knowledge means Bigglesworth knows Kondraki has a device that makes bright lights & skin-burning pain (The camera.) & just like an animal familiar with being shot at, it probably has incentive to get aggressive upon seeing it, meaning Bigglesworth would probably try to attack the camera. Freeze it solid, get ice in the internals, impale it, etc.
& odds are, Bigglesworth casting a spell is faster than Kondraki pulling out his camera, aiming it at something moving that's far lower to the ground, & pressing the button.

Not to mention he has ice that can just hit everything in his AoE, so aim isn't always a concern.

& of course, Bigglesworth is probably harder to track than Kondraki; He's a small animal in a place full of grass & trees, chasing a full grown man; He's both far below Kondraki's normal eye level, & probably has cover hear, not to mention the attacks Kondraki will have to deal with, & the possibility of Bigglesworth going ABOVE Kondraki's field of view by going into a tree.
If Kondraki loses sight of Bigglesworth, he could have a hard time keeping track of the dang cat, which is bad if he needs the cat to not be behind a tree to hit it with the camera, or he needs Bigglesworth looking into the lens to blind him.

There's also the question of if he even COULD burn Bigglesworth; If the cat wants to avoid high temperature, he could surround himself with the cold via his own AoE; Bigglesworth does have Resistance to Cold Temperatures; How does the camera flash's heat match up against Bigglesworth's cold? Can it burn through that? Would it thaw the ice? Warm Bigglesworth?

Better senses, being harder to track, the AoE ice (Which will ruin Kondraki's butterflies & camera.), & the 1-time Resurrection (That grants temporary invulnerability.) meaning Kondraki has to deal with a full HP, undamaged, likely unblinded Bigglesworth after killing the cat the first time (If he can.), possibly with damage or removal of his butterflies & camera, I don't think Kondraki can win long term. At least, not win the majority of the time.
 
Imaginym said:
Also, there's the start of the match. Prior knowledge means Bigglesworth knows Kondraki has a device that makes bright lights & skin-burning pain (The camera.) & just like an animal familiar with being shot at, it probably has incentive to get aggressive upon seeing it, meaning Bigglesworth would probably try to attack the camera. Freeze it solid, get ice in the internals, impale it, etc.
& odds are, Bigglesworth casting a spell is faster than Kondraki pulling out his camera, aiming it at something moving that's far lower to the ground, & pressing the button.
Click to expand...
A camera flash covers a lot of space in front of him and he wears it on his neck I think it is faster than the ice reaching him.

Imaginym said:
There's also the question of if he even COULD burn Bigglesworth; If the cat wants to avoid high temperature, he could surround himself with the cold via his own AoE; Bigglesworth does have Resistance to Cold Temperatures; How does the camera flash's heat match up against Bigglesworth's cold? Can it burn through that? Would it thaw the ice? Warm Bigglesworth?
Click to expand...
It's hot enough to cover clef in third burns given it takes 2 seconds for 150 degrees water to cause the same with skin contact and it did so in a camera flash, it likely burn him anyway also that gives kondraki time to get good stick. Also how hot does it have to be before grass burns?
 
Lou_change said:
A camera flash covers a lot of space in front of him and he wears it on his neck I think it is faster than the ice reaching him.


It's hot enough to cover clef in third burns given it takes 2 seconds for 150 degrees water to cause the same with skin contact and it did so in a camera flash, it likely burn him anyway also that gives kondraki time to get good stick. Also how hot does it have to be before grass burns?
Click to expand...
Howling Blast is near-instant as soon as Bigglesworth uses it and can't be dodged unless the character is faster then Bigglesworth, Ice Tomb can be dodged, and Frost Nova locks down characters who have Class 25 LS and it has a pretty fast AOE, Kondraki isnt dodging it.
 
Let's consider a possible start to the match:

If Bigglesworth leads with AoE & Kondraki leads with camera flash, the camera may not burn Bigglesworth because of the ice flash freezing everything.
If it only burns flesh, I'm not sure it's hot enough to overcome temperatures that flash freeze air & human bodies. & even then, being surrounded by cold temperatures means the heat Bigglesworth is exposed to will be severely reduced.
But the camera's flash doesn't go behind the camera, so Kondraki will still be exposed to the cold.
 
DaReaperMan said:
2 more till grace, Weekly is going to explode when he sees that Kondraki lost to this damn cat
Click to expand...
I hope he appreciates the Bigglesworth side of the argument enough not to be too upset. These are just for fun.

Anyway, 5? That's currently me (Imaginym), you (DaReaperMan), Oleggator, PopTed2 & Lou_Change voting Bigglesworth, 5 to 0, right?
 
Imaginym said:
I hope he appreciates the Bigglesworth side of the argument enough not to be too upset. These are just for fun.

Anyway, 5? That's currently me (Imaginym), you (DaReaperMan), Oleggator, PopTed2 & Lou_Change voting Bigglesworth, 5 to 0, right?
Click to expand...
he doesn't get upset at vs threads, its a joke that an SCP character just lost to an ice kitty

correct!
 
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