07-expansion (Raising levels and reviewing metaphysics)

[Darksmash]

To get the right idea of the universe, you have to watch the original. If you can't understand it, then...

I will use the official translation unless you can prove that it's been mistranslated with scans and citations.

He wrote Revright from the beginning, and was personally given a separate route, which wasn't even in the plans when he started writing it

So Ryukishi the gigachad stopped Rewrite's release, rewrote everything because he could and inserted his own route because he felt like it? Man you are good at making fanfiction. The text you posted literally said Ryukishi was allowed to write for them and his text could be rewritten if they didn't like it.

If needed, I will provide many concepts from the 07-expansion, which were applied in the Rewrite itself

Similar concepts have nothing to do with canonicity. Otherwise 80% western tier 1 verses will be canon to each other.

 

[Guardian_Doge]

Would you be willing to help out here please?

Ofc ofc, busy with some chores so in a bit.

 

[BlueText]

I will use the official translation unless you can prove that it's been mistranslated with scans and citations.

The Eastern language is trivially impossible to translate normally into Western languages. At least the meaning is almost impossible to convey without the original

So Ryukishi the gigachad stopped Rewrite's release, rewrote everything because he could and inserted his own route because he felt like it? Man you are good at making fanfiction. The text you posted literally said Ryukishi was allowed to write for them and his text could be rewritten if they didn't like it.

He didn't rewrite anything. He originally co-wrote Rewrite. It was just his initiative to later introduce a new route, which he wrote himself. Actually, unlike the other part of the piece, he was free to work in it.

The actual text could have been rewritten, but everything remained as it is now.

Similar concepts have nothing to do with canonicity. Otherwise 80% western tier 1 verses will be canon to each other.

By similar concepts, I mean literally the same ones. Starting with a concept like (カケラ), which is not spelt like (欠片), manifests as a feeling in the human world and is part of some world above (If you have read my thread, you will know what I mean). Ending with the fact that rising is tantamount to losing one's own self

Again, I pointed out the most notable, and there are many more things that explicitly use the concepts of 07-expansion

By the way, as in the case of Stain;GAte x Higurashi, between Key and 07-expansion, there is its own piece Higurashi When They Cry Mei X Clannad, which indicates a link between at least these works

 

[ÆONS]

@Promestein @Bro-Kai @The_real_cal_howard @Ovy7 @Udlmaster @CrimsonStarFallen @First_Witch @Zencha9 @ZERO7772 @Infinity_Shun @MrKerf @ÆONS @Guardian_Doge @catzlaflame @Elizhaa @Roachman40 @The_Element_Kirbies

Would you be willing to help out here please?

I'll monitor the thread, but I won't make any comments on the matter until near the end.

 

[Vexzito]

Would be nice if you translated the interviews but from the interviews I read a while ago, I'd still disagree since he's only wrote a single route.

Only wrote a single route in ReWrite which wasn't even the Kakera route where conceptual ladder comes from.
https://07th-expansion.fandom.com/wiki/Ryukishi07_Interviews_(Epitanime_2012)

23/ You were contacted by Konami to write the scenario of Ookamikakushi and by Key to write the scenario of a Route in Rewrite. How did it affect your original schedule?
For the summer Comiket, he works from April to August, for the winter Comiket, he works from September to December. So at that time, he had 3 months in between when he didn’t have much to do. That’s when he was contacted by Konami. Working with them made him learn many things and it was also an opportunity to work in a much relaxed environment than usual.

And more times confirming that he wrote a single route, which isn't the conceptual ladder route, also he quite literally says he had to write in a different manner to Umineko and Higurashi due to not having control over it.

Ryukishi wrote the Lucia Route which Ryukishi didn't have full control over either.
https://rewrite.fandom.com/wiki/Lucia_Route https://07th-expansion.fandom.com/wiki/08/03/2015_Interview

You worked on Rewrite’s Lucia route, which was a collaboration with many other people. Was it harder to write it without any feedback from fans?
In the case of Higurashi and Umineko, it was my own work so I could do whatever I wanted. In Rewrite, it was Key Visual Arts’ work so I had to respect that, and it made me really nervous to write in a very different style and thought process.

I don't see a reason to continue since Ryukishi didn't even write the conceptual ladder route but he's even more proof that he didn't have control over the Lucia route that he helped with.

Characters and world setting were already made, he just expanded on it.

When you did the Lucia route, did you have to write more “business” type than “passion” type than you usually do? How did it make your work with Key more or less difficult?
For me, when I could write anything I wanted, it was harder to come up with things. With Rewrite, there’s already a world and setting set up for me, as well as a character. It’s actually easier to write and expand that world. It was fun.

Did you write the route knowing the ending ahead of time, or not?
Rewrite itself is by Romeo Tanaka, and I couldn’t change that–there was already an initial setting for Lucia. But the direction of the story was up to me, as long as it was possible in that world. The ending was mine.

Again, Ryukishi not completely writing for ReWrite as he was in the middle of writing Umineko.

https://07th-expansion.fandom.com/wiki/LOOPERS_Interview
And after this masked interview and the job offer, you were in charge of Konohana Lucia in Rewrite.
At that time I was releasing a piece twice a year... I believe the offer came as I was in the middle of writing Umineko no Naku Koro ni, so I would not be able to write very much for other projects. But there’s an 8 month gap between winter and summer Comiket. I said I could join for the first half of that, so January through April.

As for the four Japanese quotes you posted as proof for Ryuksihi having control over ReWrite, the first one says he had to write with setting materials given to him, I think that's quite contrary to Ryukishi having control.

The second says he was the first to start writing ReWrite? That's what Google Translate says... But that doesn't mean he wrote the entire thing, just that he started it.

And the third... Ryukishi literally says the writers at Key would change what he wrote if they didn't like it

Idk why the fourth is there.

 

[BlueText]

Would be nice if you translated the interviews but from the interviews I read a while ago, I'd still disagree since he's only wrote a single route.

The Lucia route was not added immediately. Initially it was not in the project at all. Ryu was the one who suggested it and that's when it was added

I’d like to hear just a bit more about Rewrite. So the heroine routes were in progress, but surely there was a true route, right?

R07: That’s right. In the beginning there wasn’t going to be a Lucia. It was just Kotori, Akane, Chihaya, and Shizuru, but then Gaia would have two while Guardian only had one. I suggested adding one more, so that’s why I got to write Lucia and why I had a lot of freedom with her.


Ehh! You were the first to start writing on Rewrite?

Yes, but I had accepted the task, so I had to finish it. Being Rewrite, I was told that material could be rewritten if something came up, so I just started to write. When I finished the manuscript, I thought “I finished a job for a company I adore. I have no regrets in this life!” So after passing through the pearly gates, I’m back and get to write a new kinetic novel, so I’m doubly happy.

Ryukishi wrote the Lucia Route which Ryukishi didn't have full control over either.

Rewrite's original intent is not the 'Horror' that Ryu is so used to writing. Naturally, he had to change his train of thought


Overall what was your experience like as a collaborator? What did you like and what would you change?

Before Rewrite, I only wrote mystery, murders, suspense…it was the first time I wrote a love story. I found a lot of new things about my writing style. It was a good experience.

Characters and world setting were already made, he just expanded on it.

That said, the moment he started reading the manuscripts, they were not fully written...


Do you have any special memories or stories from the production period?

R07: I thought I would start by reading the manuscript for one of Tanaka Romeo’s heroines. But by the time I needed to get to work, those hadn’t been finished. In the end, I sat down with the setting reference material and had no choice but to start writing.

As for the four Japanese quotes you posted as proof for Ryuksihi having control over ReWrite, the first one says he had to write with setting materials given to him, I think that's quite contrary to Ryukishi having control.

The second says he was the first to start writing ReWrite? That's what Google Translate says... But that doesn't mean he wrote the entire thing, just that he started it.

And the third... Ryukishi literally says the writers at Key would change what he wrote if they didn't like it

He was supposed to write using the materials provided to him, but these materials were not even finished by then, he said

And so says the website you linked to

That's also what the website you linked to says.
He broke the basic plot of Rewrite by adding Lucia originally with his suggestions.

And the third... Ryukishi literally says the writers at Key would change what he wrote if they didn't like it

But that's just how it turned out. Namely a work that has similar concepts and terms from the metaphysics of 07-expansion

 

[BlueText]

As for the four Japanese quotes you posted as proof for Ryuksihi having control over ReWrite, the first one says he had to write with setting materials given to him, I think that's quite contrary to Ryukishi having control.

He was simply told that the material could be rewritten if necessary

Ehh! You were the first to start writing on Rewrite?

Yes, but I had accepted the task, so I had to finish it. Being Rewrite, I was told that material could be rewritten if something came up, so I just started to write. When I finished the manuscript, I thought “I finished a job for a company I adore. I have no regrets in this life!” So after passing through the pearly gates, I’m back and get to write a new kinetic novel, so I’m doubly happy.

He did not say a word about the framework he was given. The only thing he said was that he was nervous because it wasn't his job and he should respect that

You worked on Rewrite’s Lucia route, which was a collaboration with many other people. Was it harder to write it without any feedback from fans?

In the case of Higurashi and Umineko, it was my own work so I could do whatever I wanted. In Rewrite, it was Key Visual Arts’ work so I had to respect that, and it made me really nervous to write in a very different style and thought process.



As I mentioned before. 07-expansion and Key have already combined their work into one. Actually it's When They Cry Mei X Clannad

 

[ÆONS]

I'll monitor the thread, but I won't make any comments on the matter until near the end.

Actually, forget it, I'm leaving. Good luck everyone.

 

[Zencha9]

Ryukishi hijacked Rewrite and took full control of the writing development, was't restricted whatsoever and and held another writer at gunpoint to write his umi metaphysics in that one route he didn't write
sasuga

 

[Darksmash]

The Eastern language is trivially impossible to translate normally into Western languages. At least the meaning is almost impossible to convey without the original

JAPANESE IS A TRANSCENDENT LANGUAGE THAT CAN NEVER BE TRANSLATED INTO PLEB ENGLISH TRUST ME DUDE

He didn't rewrite anything. He originally co-wrote Rewrite. It was just his initiative to later introduce a new route, which he wrote himself. Actually, unlike the other part of the piece, he was free to work in it.

The actual text could have been rewritten, but everything remained as it is now.

Literally none of this matters because Ryukishi directly says that Rewrite is key's work, not his.

By similar concepts, I mean literally the same ones. Starting with a concept like (カケラ), which is not spelt like (欠片), manifests as a feeling in the human world and is part of some world above (If you have read my thread, you will know what I mean). Ending with the fact that rising is tantamount to losing one's own self

Again, I pointed out the most notable, and there are many more things that explicitly use the concepts of 07-expansion

Yea and? Taking inspiration from some concept doesn't make them canon to each other. Otherwise DC is canon to SCP because both have an overvoid.

By the way, as in the case of Stain;GAte x Higurashi, between Key and 07-expansion, there is its own piece Higurashi When They Cry Mei X Clannad, which indicates a link between at least these works

My brother in Christ collaborations don't make two verses canon to each other. Otherwise Marvel and DC would have been the same verse.

 

[BlueText]

JAPANESE IS A TRANSCENDENT LANGUAGE THAT CAN NEVER BE TRANSLATED INTO PLEB ENGLISH TRUST ME DUDE

Jesus. I can give a trivial example even with my own tongue. While in English "dimensional" is a polysemous word, in mine there is a word for every such meaning. What about Japanese

Yea and? Taking inspiration from some concept doesn't make them canon to each other. Otherwise DC is canon to SCP because both have an overvoid.

Inspiration is one thing, applying terms from another work that mean nothing beyond it is another

Yea and? Taking inspiration from some concept doesn't make them canon to each other. Otherwise DC is canon to SCP because both have an overvoid.

You have strange comparisons. There, even Kagari, who is Miracle, supports a primary force with the suspicious name of Aurora

My brother in Christ collaborations don't make two verses canon to each other. Otherwise Marvel and DC would have been the same vers

It describes everything that happens as just two different timelines

 

[BlueText]

Ryukishi hijacked Rewrite and took full control of the writing development, was't restricted whatsoever and and held another writer at gunpoint to write his umi metaphysics in that one route he didn't write
sasuga

That's the way it was

 

[Darksmash]

Jesus. I can give a trivial example even with my own tongue. While in English "dimensional" is a polysemous word, in mine there is a word for every such meaning. What about Japanese

If you insist that accurate translation is impossible then you cannot tier it on an English wiki. Go to japanese vswiki or something.

Inspiration is one thing, applying terms from another work that mean nothing beyond it is another

There is no difference between the two. Some authors have been inspired to the point of directly using the same terminology from one verse in another. And of ******* course they would be inspired by Ryukishi because they literally worked with him.

You have strange comparisons. There, even Kagari, who is Miracle, supports a primary force with the suspicious name of Aurora

Again with the dumb name drops. Rewrite Aurora has jack shit to do with Featherine Augustus Aurora. Literally a completely different thing. Same as DC overvoid having jack shit to do with overvoid lurk in SCP.

It describes everything that happens as just two different timelines

No Marvel and DC are two seperate verses. Also if you use dumbass crossover arguments then Umineko is also canon to Marvel and DC because of Higurashi x PUBG crossover chain

 

[Antvasima]

So what are the conclusions here so far?

 

[Ovy7]

I get the feeling that this thread will become a meme. . .

 

[Zencha9]

it is already going through that phase

 

[BlueText]

If you insist that accurate translation is impossible then you cannot tier it on an English wiki. Go to japanese vswiki or something.

There is no difference between the two. Some authors have been inspired to the point of directly using the same terminology from one verse in another. And of ******* course they would be inspired by Ryukishi because they literally worked with him.


Again with the dumb name drops. Rewrite Aurora has jack shit to do with Featherine Augustus Aurora. Literally a completely different thing. Same as DC overvoid having jack shit to do with overvoid lurk in SCP.


No Marvel and DC are two seperate verses. Also if you use dumbass crossover arguments then Umineko is also canon to Marvel and DC because of Higurashi x PUBG crossover chain

I give up. Rewrite has no connection to 07-expansion. And even if it does, I don't have enough arguments and evidence to defend it.

In any case, the power levels of this CRT do not come from it. The 07-expansion is due to other things

 

[BlueText]

If you insist that accurate translation is impossible then you cannot tier it on an English wiki. Go to japanese vswiki or something.

I see no problem in using the English wiki

 

[Antvasima]

I get the feeling that this thread will become a meme. . .

So you strongly disagree with it then? Can you elaborate please?

 

[Ovy7]

So you strongly disagree with it then? Can you elaborate please?

I disagree with ReWrite being part of the 07th Expansion series, but it seems that OP had dropped that point now.

I'm indiferent on the rest of the thread. As I've said above, I think it's too early for a tier-change CRT for the series. There's multiple story threads going right now, and we are still need to get the 2nd phase of the new entry in the main series.

My take on CRTs? I think this should be close and post-ponned to a later date, it's too early for one.

 

[BlueText]

I'm indiferent on the rest of the thread. As I've said above, I think it's too early for a tier-change CRT for the series. There's multiple story threads going right now, and we are still need to get the 2nd phase of the new entry in the main series.

This is largely nothing new. Rather a reinterpretation of the old. I doubt that its impossible to raise his force levels in the current realities

 

[Antvasima]

I disagree with ReWrite being part of the 07th Expansion series, but it seems that OP had dropped that point now.

I'm indiferent on the rest of the thread. As I've said above, I think it's too early for a tier-change CRT for the series. There's multiple story threads going right now, and we are still need to get the 2nd phase of the new entry in the main series.

My take on CRTs? I think this should be close and post-ponned to a later date, it's too early for one.

Okay. It seems fine to me if we close this thread, and you or some other knowledgeable member brings it up later instead then.

 

[Ovy7]

Yeah, something like that.

. . . tho I might highjack this thread later today or in the weekend to do some upgrades (small ones tho), but to the Higurashi characters not Umineko ones.

I guess you can live this open a bit more, and I'll either contact you or another mod to close it otherwise.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Feel free to ask another moderator to close it soon then.

 

[Zencha9]

i share the same views as ovy

 

[Darksmash]

Since the rewrite stuff is out of the way I will check out the OP

There is also a certain area between these worlds in which such concepts as "space" and "time" do not exist.

Saying that the underside of the chessboard is part of the human domain is kinda misleading imo as it utilizes an analogy explicitly based upon the witch domain's perspective(That is being the underside of the chessboard), but regardless this is a minor detail.

2. The power of the mirror (to erect all worlds an infinite number of times) and the infinite magic of Beatrice are in conflict with each other
3 Cleaning of mirrors is mandatory, otherwise neighboring worlds will be contaminated. Kinzo knows this and cleans the mirrors.

How are you reaching the conclusion that the mirror is the same as mirrors in Higanbana? Based on what exactly? Where do parallel worlds even come from?

It is also worth bearing in mind that within the world of Beatrice there are many other layers that overlap

The beings of the "Witches' Domain" are also able to bind shards and create hierarchies from them

Three issues:
1) Don't the 3 worlds in Trianthology form a full cycle? Like A views B as fiction, B views C as fiction and C views A as fiction? Assuming this to be true, this would be a very violent form of contradictory paradox that would oppose any notion of this "hierarchy" being ontological.
2) Don't we also see the kakeras of the 3 worlds side by side independent of each other? That would also contradict the idea of ontological difference as if the worlds were inside one another their kakeras(Which are stated to be the worlds themselves in Umineko) would not appear side by side, but instead inside one another.
3) Even if we entertain the idea that the hierarchy is indeed ontological it would be vaguely unquantifiable as its useless for concrete tiering assuming the cycle thing is true.

What do we have in the end?

high 1-B - Human Domain

Absolutely not. I have read through the whole post and you brought nothing that wasnt already known on the wiki, except the trianthology thing which hasnt been discussed on site but has been discussed before offsite.

low 1-A - the lowest layer of the Domain of witches
1-A (1-A high in the theory) - for any witches (due to the possibility of forming complex structures containing infinite hierarchies)
1-A high - For Voyagers (the City of Books is also part of the "Witches Domain", and therefore it itself is contained in a sea of shards)

0 - For Creator and Fezarin (for the fact of being in the 3rd domain). The difference between "Creator" and "Gods" I pointed out above

I feel like nothing you said has any correlation to the tiers you have suggested. You might need to elaborate upon the reasonings for the tiers.

 

[BlueText]

Saying that the underside of the chessboard is part of the human domain is kinda misleading imo as it utilizes an analogy explicitly based upon the witch domain's perspective(That is being the underside of the chessboard), but regardless this is a minor detail.

This argument is based on the fact that the Ryuns, due to phase transition, travel independently of space, time and opportunity. The description of the reverse side of the chessboard fits well with this concept

How are you reaching the conclusion that the mirror is the same as mirrors in Higanbana? Based on what exactly? Where do parallel worlds even come from?

I think I've written this in CRT before
1) These mirrors have a connection with the spirits of Akujikishima (Yokayami)
2) They interfere with Beatrice's endless magic
3) The procedure of cleaning the mirrors that Kinzo did (the same procedure that Kyo did in Higanbana)
4) Same name in Japanese

Three issues:
1) Don't the 3 worlds in Trianthology form a full cycle? Like A views B as fiction, B views C as fiction and C views A as fiction? Assuming this to be true, this would be a very violent form of contradictory paradox that would oppose any notion of this "hierarchy" being ontological.
2) Don't we also see the kakeras of the 3 worlds side by side independent of each other? That would also contradict the idea of ontological difference as if the worlds were inside one another their kakeras(Which are stated to be the worlds themselves in Umineko) would not appear side by side, but instead inside one another.
3) Even if we entertain the idea that the hierarchy is indeed ontological it would be vaguely unquantifiable as its useless for concrete tiering assuming the cycle thing is true.

1 - 2) They do form a cycle. It's not the Kakers themselves, but rather the worlds in them that are linked hierarchically. This can be seen as a portal of some sort, as well as a hierarchy. In general, Kakers can exist within each other and this hierarchy can stretch all the way to the Human Domain, where they will manifest as emotions.
3) The purpose of this point is to demonstrate how not the strongest witches can bind these shards

Absolutely not. I have read through the whole post and you brought nothing that wasnt already known on the wiki, except the trianthology thing which hasnt been discussed on site but has been discussed before offsite.

I feel like nothing you said has any correlation to the tiers you have suggested. You might need to elaborate upon the reasonings for the tiers.

high 1-B comes out due to the fact that these mirrors do not simply lead to parallel worlds, but create an infinite hierarchy. And the properties of this hierarchy meet these criteria

(Characters who can universally affect, create and/or destroy structures whose size is equivalent to a countably infinite number of qualitative dimensions above a universal model, usually represented in fiction by endless hierarchies of layers of existence, each succeeding one completely trivializing the previous into insignificance, or more generally a space with countably infinite dimensions.)

low 1-A comes out at the expense of the Witches' Domain being superior to the Human Domain. You cannot enter the Witches' Domain without an invitation in principle

The Witch Domain, by the way, is already an infinite hierarchy

1-A is high 1-A theoretical. Out comes at the expense of Beatrice's ability to unfold hierarchies of mirrors at a higher level. Not only that, but in her world there are more layers on top of them
1-A high in Voyagers due to the fact that not even their true forms travel in a sea of shards. The true forms, on the other hand, are obviously higher up

0 to the Creator, for being superior to all 07-expansion

With Fezarin it's debatable. Although she was partially able to be in the third domain, it is only partially

 

[Darksmash]

I think I've written this in CRT before
1) These mirrors have a connection with the spirits of Akujikishima (Yokayami)
2) They interfere with Beatrice's endless magic
3) The procedure of cleaning the mirrors that Kinzo did (the same procedure that Kyo did in Higanbana)
4) Same name in Japanese

None of them really lead to the conclusion about the mirrors leading to parallel worlds. Classic non sequitur.

1 - 2) They do form a cycle. It's not the Kakers themselves, but rather the worlds in them that are linked hierarchically. This can be seen as a portal of some sort, as well as a hierarchy. In general, Kakers can exist within each other and this hierarchy can stretch all the way to the Human Domain, where they will manifest as emotions.
3) The purpose of this point is to demonstrate how not the strongest witches can bind these shards

That heavily implies the "hierarchy" isnt one of ontology though. So that is pretty much useless as such a hierarchy does not satisfy the criteria for tier 1.

high 1-B comes out due to the fact that these mirrors do not simply lead to parallel worlds, but create an infinite hierarchy. And the properties of this hierarchy meet these criteria

Well firstly the mirrors lead to parallel worlds, not infinitesimal worlds. Secondly, even considering the other idea it would be a downward hierarchy which would be tier 11. So no, this is not high 1-B.

low 1-A comes out at the expense of the Witches' Domain being superior to the Human Domain. You cannot enter the Witches' Domain without an invitation in principle

Since I already refuted the high 1-B part this low 1-A reduces to low 1-C.

1-A is high 1-A theoretical. Out comes at the expense of Beatrice's ability to unfold hierarchies of mirrors at a higher level. Not only that, but in her world there are more layers on top of them

???
This not only depends on the assumption that everything in the witch domain variation of Rokkenjima works the same way it worked in the human world(objectively false as the world has different rules) but also doesnt work because the argument about the human world having Higanbana style mirrors was also a non sequitur. Lastly, even if this was true it would be a downward hierarchy so it wouldnt grant any boost to the cosmology. We are still at low 1-C so far.

1-A high in Voyagers due to the fact that not even their true forms travel in a sea of shards. The true forms, on the other hand, are obviously higher up

This doesnt mean anything as Lambdadelta explicitly says she is still climbing the ladder. So her true form is just on a higher layer of the hierarchy. We are somewhere in 1-B right now.

0 to the Creator, for being superior to all 07-expansion

With Fezarin it's debatable. Although she was partially able to be in the third domain, it is only partially

And that leads up to baseline 1-A, which aligns with the current interpretation of the cosmology on the wiki.

 

[BlueText]

None of them really lead to the conclusion about the mirrors leading to parallel worlds. Classic non sequitur.

If points 1, 2, 4 prove that these mirrors are trivially the same as those in Higanban, then point 2 makes it clear that the mirrors have the same functionality. If the owner of the magic of miracles always knows what number will fall out when playing dice, then the infinite magic of Beatrice keeps those dice out of hand. If the worlds behind these mirrors are infinitely many, then the fork and soup contradiction appears

Well firstly the mirrors lead to parallel worlds, not infinitesimal worlds. Secondly, even considering the other idea it would be a downward hierarchy which would be tier 11. So no, this is not high 1-B.

It would be one thing if they were just parallel worlds. In our case Kyo himself claims that if the mirror gets dirty on the outside, then the whole world on the other side of the mirror gets dirty too

He also described the world behind the mirrors as "Dreams". Not to be confused with the definition of some worlds between these mirrors

Since I already refuted the high 1-B part this low 1-A reduces to low 1-C.

Or they just don't understand how they work

???
This not only depends on the assumption that everything in the witch domain variation of Rokkenjima works the same way it worked in the human world(objectively false as the world has different rules) but also doesnt work because the argument about the human world having Higanbana style mirrors was also a non sequitur. Lastly, even if this was true it would be a downward hierarchy so it wouldnt grant any boost to the cosmology. We are still at low 1-C so far.

Above explained how these mirrors work in the human world and in the witch world

 

[Darksmash]

If points 1, 2, 4 prove that these mirrors are trivially the same as those in Higanban, then point 2 makes it clear that the mirrors have the same functionality.

Except the first part isnt true. You cant say that two things are the same just because they match in some properties. That's not how evidence works.

If the owner of the magic of miracles always knows what number will fall out when playing dice, then the infinite magic of Beatrice keeps those dice out of hand. If the worlds behind these mirrors are infinitely many, then the fork and soup contradiction appears

No clue what your point is but the fork and soup analogy was used in context of the witch's powers, not parallel worlds.

It would be one thing if they were just parallel worlds. In our case Kyo himself claims that if the mirror gets dirty on the outside, then the whole world on the other side of the mirror gets dirty too

That doesnt mean anything important. All that tells us is that the worlds are dependent on the mirrors in some way. We know that when Kyou and Marie went into the mirror world they remained the same size and had the same powers, same with the Marie of the other side when she came into the first world. There is no visible transcendental hierarchy here.

He also described the world behind the mirrors as "Dreams". Not to be confused with the definition of some worlds between these mirrors

Again doesnt mean anything because we know for a fact that they are not dreams. So its meaningless terminology.

 

[MrKerf]

Not bad work you did here. I am a bit busy right now, celebrating my birthday, but reading this over I don't see anything drastically wrong. "Creator" is debatable as usual, but in a long run it doesn't change as much.

Also, yes, Rewrite is absolutely part of Rukishi's world. Here's his tweet of Okonogi being the same. With direct reference of Osamu Tezuka’s system he likes so much. Check his iterviews. It's not an easter egg, he doesn't do those.

"...I have a huge unified world in my mind, but it’s just a framework in my brain, not something that is clearly depicted in the story. It’s like Osamu Tezuka’s Phoenix. While the stories are independent of each other, Phoenix and Saruta appear in most of the stories, don’t they? So you don’t necessarily need to know Umineko no Naku Koro ni to enjoy Higurashi."

Just like with Bern, etc, etc. It's not debatable in any way. I was going to write a blog for that, but got lazy a long time ago -_-

 

[BlueText]

Not bad work you did here. I am a bit busy right now, celebrating my birthday, but reading this over I don't see anything drastically wrong. "Creator" is debatable as usual, but in a long run it doesn't change as much.

Also, yes, Rewrite is absolutely part of Rukishi's world. Here's his tweet of Okonogi being the same. With direct reference of Osamu Tezuka’s system he likes so much. Check his iterviews. It's not an easter egg, he doesn't do those.

"...I have a huge unified world in my mind, but it’s just a framework in my brain, not something that is clearly depicted in the story. It’s like Osamu Tezuka’s Phoenix. While the stories are independent of each other, Phoenix and Saruta appear in most of the stories, don’t they? So you don’t necessarily need to know Umineko no Naku Koro ni to enjoy Higurashi."

Just like with Bern, etc, etc. It's not debatable in any way. I was going to write a blog for that, but got lazy a long time ago -_-

I haven't seen this interview. I'll probably read it in about five hours

 

[MrKerf]

I haven't seen this interview. I'll probably read it in about five hours

The quote above is from this GOU interview.

Also this one should probably be of help.

"Ryukishi sees his characters as actors and compared using the above characters in Umineko as being similar to Harrison Ford playing both Han Solo and Indiana Jones, in that the person behind the role is the same, but the character they are playing in each movie, or in this case game, is very different."

Good luck mate. Last time I talked with Ovy about it, he said that he'll approve Rewrite only if Xeno Goku will be approved as 1-C, hehe.

 

[Darksmash]

Also, yes, Rewrite is absolutely part of Rukishi's world. Here's his tweet of Okonogi being the same. With direct reference of Osamu Tezuka’s system he likes so much. Check his iterviews. It's not an easter egg, he doesn't do those.

I am not sure what that tweet is supposed to prove. Canonical information takes priority anyway. Rewrite Okonogi explicitly has a different surname. Also lmao so he can't reference the "Osamu Tezuka" system for an Easter egg? This such a trash argument for canonicity. So any fanfiction variant of Superman out there is canon to DC?

"...I have a huge unified world in my mind, but it’s just a framework in my brain, not something that is clearly depicted in the story. It’s like Osamu Tezuka’s Phoenix. While the stories are independent of each other, Phoenix and Saruta appear in most of the stories, don’t they? So you don’t necessarily need to know Umineko no Naku Koro ni to enjoy Higurashi."

Except Umineko and Higurashi ARE his works. Unlike Rewrite which is Key's work. It's literally what the man himself says.

 

[Ovy7]

Last time I talked with Ovy about it, he said that he'll approve Rewrite only if Xeno Goku will be approved as 1-C, hehe.

Uh, I don't remember that

Lol

 

[MrKerf]

Uh, I don't remember that

Lol

Come on, don't you remember me linking fc/oc's Xeno Goku, which was 1-C at that time?

 

[Ovy7]

Come on, don't you remember me linking fc/oc's Xeno Goku, which was 1-C at that time?

I had a pretty busy year, so I'm sorry

 

[BlueText]

Good luck mate. Last time I talked with Ovy about it, he said that he'll approve Rewrite only if Xeno Goku will be approved as 1-C, hehe

Let's see. In principle, my first priority was to revise the power levels without using Rewrite. Which is actually what the CRT says above

Given this, everyone is not so keen to support these levels or refute

 

[BlueText]

Sorry it took me so long to reply, didn't see your message

Except the first part isnt true. You cant say that two things are the same just because they match in some properties. That's not how evidence works.

They do not match in some properties, but in all of those described in the Higanbane

No clue what your point is but the fork and soup analogy was used in context of the witch's powers, not parallel worlds

Beatrice's ability to keep the dice in check. But there is nothing in the 07-expansion that equals 0 (excluding the Creator). So these mirrors duplicate worlds and thus increase the probability that she will still let those dice out of her hands (because the probability never equals 0)

That doesnt mean anything important. All that tells us is that the worlds are dependent on the mirrors in some way. We know that when Kyou and Marie went into the mirror world they remained the same size and had the same powers, same with the Marie of the other side when she came into the first world. There is no visible transcendental hierarchy here..

Both the mary from the mirror world and the mary from the original world could only pass through these mirrors at the expense of Kyo, who is originally described as a being beyond the variability of the mirrors, for he is their guardian. The worlds can in principle only be navigated by Kyo

This does not invalidate the existence of a hierarchy

Again doesnt mean anything because we know for a fact that they are not dreams. So its meaningless terminology.

In any case, what you wrote above does not invalidate the existence of a hierarchy

 

[Duragoji123]

Intrigued..