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As the one who proposed the "branching timelines should not be separate spacetimes" thing, let me clear a few things up.
First of all, I never said a multiverse in which timelines branch off of each other isn't tier 2. I simply said that without some good context, such a multiverse should not...
I'm gonna keep an eye on this thread and wait for any interesting points to be raised. For now, I'll just reiterate that I hard disagree with the idea that affecting two or more universes is inherently tier 2 and has to be proven otherwise, much for the same reasons as destroying the universe...
The first thing seems closer to High-Mid, IMO. The second thing... yeah, that's not regeneration at all. Not sure what it is, but it absolutely isn't that.
Again, that doesn't mean Frisk can recover from any amount of physical damage whatsoever, up to and including complete physical erasure...
I'd like to know what feats the Amalgamates have for their regen, because none of their profiles justify it beyond "well, they have a lot of Determination, so I guess they'd be at this level," which isn't helpful.
As for the other thing, regenerating from your soul being shattered ≠...
If it wasn't obvious in my previous comment, I don't think workload is the problem at all. We've tackled far bigger revisions than this with no issues (such as adding more detailed tier categories to nearly every page on the site), and the bulk of this change can be handled by an automated...
Supernatural Willpower for Asriel and Chara is fine. Undyne probably could have it too, but if so, we'd need to make a note of that her body will melt if she's too Determined.
Low/Mid-Godly Regen is... eh. As far as I understand, Refusal is just treated as Frisk's soul literally re-fusing...
I've thought about it a lot in the time I've been gone, and honestly... I don't think an outright fusion is needed anymore. I mean, I won't protest if it goes through (unlikely as it is at this point), and I admit there is logic to such a change (precedents in the merge of High 2-A with Low 1-C...
I don't know if you've noticed, but we've been suggesting to enforce specifying the maximum number of universes that characters can destroy in their AP description to go along with this tier fusion. You know, like what we already do for 1-B and the number of levels of transcendence in many...
I agree with the changes, but while we're talking about Sans revisions, I'd like to request an addition of my own in case it isn't already noted on the profile.
As I found out through this blog post, the flavor text at the beginning of each turn changes depending on how high your KARMA is...
I... don't have the full context for this. Are our standards that stopping time is assumed to affect the entire universe, but other forms of time manipulation are not? Because if so, that does seem pretty wacky.
In lack of better options, I'm willing to settle for Firestorm's draft. I'd like to make a thread addressing tier 11 sometime after all this is over with, preferably sooner rather than later.
I really don't see how that's necessary. I already linked to the FAQ saying that higher-dimensional beings are not infinitely stronger than lower-dimensional ones by default, which Ultima has already said is not wrong or outdated. That's all the confirmation we need as far as I'm concerned.
Tier 11 doesn't need to be removed. Characters who are levels of R>F beneath the baseline reality do exist, they just aren't necessarily lower-dimensional nor does being lower-dimensional inherently make you infinitely lesser than 3-D beings. Any changes that should be made to it (such as...
Incorrect. Energy isn't divided into arbitrarily many units for each number of dimensions like volume is. That is to say, there's no 1-energy, 2-energy, 3-energy, etc., just a single unit of energy that applies equally to all n-dimensional spaces for any natural number n. Our own Tiering System...
Here we go again:
3-A: Universe level
Characters who can create or destroy the entirety of a universe or pocket dimension of at least equivalent mass to the observable universe without also affecting time.
High 3-A: High Universe level
Characters who demonstrate an infinite amount of energy...
Why are we in such a rush to get this thread closed? Besides Ultima still having stuff to address, I wanna throw in my own two cents as well, especially since I was called here by Ant earlier.
Regardless, arguing from Ultima's perspective, the Player seeing the world of Undertale, an infinite...
To be more specific, one can say that lower-D stuff (mainly 2-D and 1-D) at an infinite scale is also High 3-A if there's no reason to think that infinite 2-D things are beneath finite 3-D things just because they're lower-dimensional. That's something I do wanna touch on as I feel that how we...
I wanted to use a term that could encapsulate both "universe" and "pocket dimension" in one, for which I thought "space" was best. As for why 3-D specifically, Ultima and other experts have directly told me that infinite spaces which are spatially 4-D or more qualify for tiers above High 3-A, so...
3-A: Universe level
Characters who can create or destroy all celestial bodies within a finite 3-D space at least equivalent in size to the observable universe via an omnidirectional explosion that covers the entire space. More generally, those who can significantly affect[1] a 3-D universe or...
If you wanna talk baselines, then "creating the concept of space" would default to 3-A unless more context is given to support tiering it higher than that. I assume by "concept" you mean "thing that defines reality," but even then, our standards dictate that we limit that to what actually exists...
I think you're just nitpicking at this point. Anyone should be able to tell that an infinite 3-D size falls under High 3-A and not just 3-A by looking at the definitions for both. In fact, High 3-A essentially is a type of 3-A to begin with - I mean, it literally is the high end of 3-A by its...
How about this?
3-A: Universe level
Characters who can create or destroy all celestial bodies within a 3-D space at least equivalent in size to the observable universe via an omnidirectional explosion that covers the entire space, alternatively those who can significantly affect[1] a 3-D...
I'd be careful with saying "create or destroy all celestial bodies within a 3-D space at least equivalent in size to the observable universe," since I recall that we consider all the mass in the observable universe to only be 4-A. I think we should specify somewhere (even if just as a note) that...
In terms of volume, one infinite timeline has the same 4-volume as an infinite number of finite timelines, yes. In fact, it also has the same 4-volume as an infinite number of infinite timelines. It's hard to explain without getting into complex mathematical details, but essentially, if you...
I don't like that interpretation because it doesn't adequately explain how resets work, especially true resets, if you end up in a given timeline twice in a row. In fact, I don't know if we even should consider Fun values at all - or if we do, how their existence points to multiple timelines...
Hmm... yeah, you got me there. I looked at Flowey's dialogue, and he does indeed suggest that everything will be reset. There's more evidence in favor of that, too:
The Sans dialogue I posted up there has him talk about "timelines jumping left and right, stopping and starting... until suddenly...
Thank you. I pretty much agree with all of them, but I will note that Ultima wasn't saying that different universes have to be called different spacetimes to be counted as such, just that that's the most straightforward way to do it.
I think I would also stress the importance of the "traveling...
Actually, I'd like to add something real quick:
I'm not so sure about this one. For one, Flowey clearly notes there that this is the same power he tried to use as Asriel, indicating that what Asriel was going to do was exactly what Flowey says you can do now: rip everyone out of the current...