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Tier 2 Requirements and Examples Revision

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Reiner said:
Just to realise that non of the text above relate to what I said.
Click to expand...
What you said is simply place a restriction of less than infinite on 3-A, and I am just trying to explain why High 3-A is still a part of 3-A but just the extreme end of it
 
Reiner said:
Just to realise that non of the text above relate to what I said.
Click to expand...
All members including me know that 3-A and high 3-A difference is finite and infinite. Maybe it is confusing for new members, but this is being dealt with right now. Even if a dimension is way greater than ours, it will still be 3-A if it is not infinite.
 
if it is not infinite.
Click to expand...
This is what I was saying to add that "regardless how large it is from observable universe sized dimension" but it is not infinite.
As infinite > observable universe.

Dread said:
3-A and high 3-A difference is finite and infinite
Click to expand...
Yes, infact all the tiers from tier 3 to boundless from vs battle is in my brain, I barely need to look over it again. I don't personally care for low tiers tho.
Anyway subject has ended drop it.
 
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Well, we still need to wait for DontTalk, Qawsedf234, Agnaa, and Ultima.
 
Ultima_Reality said:
I have no issues with it. Regardless, though, what were the conclusions made in this thread, exactly?
Click to expand...
Hi, welcome back. Here they are.
1. Distinctions between Big bang and it needs to be stated to create time for it to qualify for tier 2, else it's just 3-A.

And what ant linked and you replied to
And now we are are creating a new thread to apply/discuss this
Pain_to12 said:
Well here are some people's view, if i project anyone wrongly please let me know
For @Ultima_Reality
For something to qualify as tier 2, it must be explicitly stated to be such, i.e. "For something to be a space-time continuum, it has to be explicitly referred to as such"
Then he said for supporting arguments things like
1. Time was destroyed
2. You cannot travel to the past of a destroyed universe
Can be used as supporting evidences

For @DontTalkDT been a long time he was here so I cannot really say his stance

For @Agnaa
Pretty much what Ultima said and also he agreed with what DT said sometime back which translates to "Two separate space-time continuums may share the same physical space, if the space between them is a 5-D space". So essentially unless the space between the universes was stated to be a 5-D space, physically traveling among them should not be possible.
In a bit easier term, in a verse where traveling among universes is possible physically, for the verse to qualify for tier 2, there must be
1. A larger space containing all the universes/space-times
2. There must be proof the space is a 5-D space or higher.

For @KingPin0422 agrees with DT posts and also added that branching timelines are not large enough to qualify for tier 2, since there was a point in time that they were the same timeline/space.

For @Pain_to12 Well I agree with everyone of them except Ultima saying there must be an explicit statement as I cannot think of any verse would would do that to begin with. What they do is drop statements and feats here and there and we piece it together, it is rare for it to be straightforward like "each Universe in this Multiverse is its own space-time continuum"
And also I will like to add that time flowing differently (Faster and slower) in two different universes is not enough to say they are of different timelines.

And this will be all the stances, there are no disagreement with these from what I know
Click to expand...
 
Antvasima said:
We still need your help here.
Click to expand...
If you mean this
Firestorm808 said:
3-A - All Matter in an at least observable universe / At least observable universe sized Pocket Dimension

High 3-A - All Matter in an infinitely sized universe / Infinite sized Pocket Dimension

3-A - A Moment of Time + At least observable universe sized Space

High 3-A - A Moment of Time + Infinite Space

Low 2-C - An Entire Timeline + At least observable universe sized Space

Low 2-C - An Entire Timeline + Infinite Space
Click to expand...
Then yeah I think it works.

Though moment in time is going to cause some questions down the line probably.
 
Proposed Changes

3-A: Universe level​

Characters who can create or destroy all celestial bodies within a finite 3-D space at least equivalent in size to the observable universe via an omnidirectional explosion, alternately create or significantly affect[1] a finite 3-D universe or a pocket dimension of comparable size, which does not involve the destruction and/or creation of space-time.

High 3-A: High Universe level​

Characters who demonstrate an infinite amount of energy on a 3-D scale, such as creating or destroying infinite mass, or those who can affect an infinite 3-D space. This extends to an infinite number of finite or infinite-sized 3-D universes or pocket dimensions when not accounting for higher dimensions or time. Large numbers of infinite 3-D universes, unless causally closed from one another by a separate spacetime or existence, only count for a higher level of this tier. Being “infinitely” stronger than this level, unless uncountably so, does not qualify for any higher tier.
 
KLOL506 said:
All of past, present and future.
Click to expand...
Doesn't inevitably mean infinite? Since the default requirement for low 2-C is the timeline should be infinite if I am not misidentified, that's what I heard from Pain in one of the staff threads.
 
This thread is only concluded for non time related stuff, any time related stuff either moment in time or entire time/default infinite, will be discussed in fresh thread.
 
Dread said:
Doesn't inevitably mean infinite? Since the default requirement for low 2-C is the timeline should be infinite if I am not misidentified, that's what I heard from Pain in one of the staff threads.
Click to expand...
You misread them

What they mean is, blowing up the entire timeline leads to destroying an uncountably infinite number of snapshots of said physical universe across every point in time.

Whereas blowing up just a small portion of time means you're destroying a countably infinite number of snapshots of said physical universe, which is still unquantifiably higher than normal infinite 3-D space High 3-A is. Though the latter part is a subject of debate, the snapshot parts are sort of set in stone here, but they're not really required, they're just an example of what happens when you destroy all of space and time itself (AKA blowing up all of the past, present and future).

Also we're not handling time-related stuff here anymore. Just 3-D aspects.
 
@Antvasima
@Qawsedf234
Firestorm808 said:
Proposed Changes

3-A: Universe level​

Characters who can create or destroy all celestial bodies within a finite 3-D space at least equivalent in size to the observable universe via an omnidirectional explosion, alternately create or significantly affect[1] a finite 3-D universe or a pocket dimension of comparable size, which does not involve the destruction and/or creation of space-time.

High 3-A: High Universe level​

Characters who demonstrate an infinite amount of energy on a 3-D scale, such as creating or destroying infinite mass, or those who can affect an infinite 3-D space. This extends to an infinite number of finite or infinite-sized 3-D universes or pocket dimensions when not accounting for higher dimensions or time. Large numbers of infinite 3-D universes, unless causally closed from one another by a separate spacetime or existence, only count for a higher level of this tier. Being “infinitely” stronger than this level, unless uncountably so, does not qualify for any higher tier.
Click to expand...
Can someone please unlock the Tiering page if my proposed revision is acceptable?
 
KLOL506 said:
You misread them

What they mean is, blowing up the entire timeline leads to destroying an uncountably infinite number of snapshots of said physical universe across every point in time.

Whereas blowing up just a small portion of time means you're destroying a countably infinite number of snapshots of said physical universe, which is still unquantifiably higher than normal infinite 3-D space High 3-A is. Though the latter part is a subject of debate, the snapshot parts are sort of set in stone here, but they're not really required, they're just an example of what happens when you destroy all of space and time itself (AKA blowing up all of the past, present and future).

Also we're not handling time-related stuff here anymore. Just 3-D aspects.
Click to expand...
Alright, I will rephrase my question once again, “entire timeline” = infinite in low 2-C or not? Or just the default timeline (past --> present --> future)
It is somehow fundamental to discuss because once you are in low 2-C, your timeline is infinite by default.

I am not disagreeing with the suggestion, but clarification is appreciated.
 
KingPin0422 said:
How about this?

3-A: Universe level​

Characters who can create or destroy all celestial bodies within a 3-D space at least equivalent in size to the observable universe via an omnidirectional explosion that covers the entire space, alternatively those who can significantly affect[1] a 3-D universe or pocket dimension of comparable size without also affecting time.

High 3-A: High Universe level​

Characters who demonstrate an infinite amount of energy on a 3-D scale, such as creating or destroying infinite mass, affecting an infinite 3-D space, or affecting an infinite number of finite or infinite-sized 3-D universes or pocket dimensions when not accounting for any higher dimensions or time. Large numbers of infinite 3-D universes, unless causally closed from one another by separate spacetime continuums, only count for a higher level of this tier. Being “infinitely” stronger than this level, unless uncountably so, does not qualify for any higher tier.
Click to expand...
I still prefer this for 3-A and High 3-A as it's more concise and covers all bases.
 
Firestorm808 said:
Proposed Changes

3-A: Universe level​

Characters who can create or destroy all celestial bodies within a finite 3-D space at least equivalent in size to the observable universe via an omnidirectional explosion, alternately create or significantly affect[1] a finite 3-D universe or a pocket dimension of comparable size, which does not involve the destruction and/or creation of space-time.

High 3-A: High Universe level​

Characters who demonstrate an infinite amount of energy on a 3-D scale, such as creating or destroying infinite mass, or those who can affect an infinite 3-D space. This extends to an infinite number of finite or infinite-sized 3-D universes or pocket dimensions when not accounting for higher dimensions or time. Large numbers of infinite 3-D universes, unless causally closed from one another by a separate spacetime or existence, only count for a higher level of this tier. Being “infinitely” stronger than this level, unless uncountably so, does not qualify for any higher tier.
Click to expand...

These are the current proposed changes.
KingPin0422 said:
How about this?

3-A: Universe level​

Characters who can create or destroy all celestial bodies within a 3-D space at least equivalent in size to the observable universe via an omnidirectional explosion that covers the entire space, alternatively those who can significantly affect[1] a 3-D universe or pocket dimension of comparable size without also affecting time.

High 3-A: High Universe level​

Characters who demonstrate an infinite amount of energy on a 3-D scale, such as creating or destroying infinite mass, affecting an infinite 3-D space, or affecting an infinite number of finite or infinite-sized 3-D universes or pocket dimensions when not accounting for any higher dimensions or time. Large numbers of infinite 3-D universes, unless causally closed from one another by separate spacetime continuums, only count for a higher level of this tier. Being “infinitely” stronger than this level, unless uncountably so, does not qualify for any higher tier.
Click to expand...


Although on a personal level, I wouldn’t mind Kingpin’s proposed revisions.

Anyway, here are the proposed revisions regarding Tier 3A
 
Firestorm808's version:

3-A: Universe level​

Characters who can create or destroy all celestial bodies within a finite 3-D space at least equivalent in size to the observable universe via an omnidirectional explosion, alternately create or significantly affect[1] a finite 3-D universe or a pocket dimension of comparable size, which does not involve the destruction and/or creation of space-time.

High 3-A: High Universe level​

Characters who demonstrate an infinite amount of energy on a 3-D scale, such as creating or destroying infinite mass, or those who can affect an infinite 3-D space. This extends to an infinite number of finite or infinite-sized 3-D universes or pocket dimensions when not accounting for higher dimensions or time. Large numbers of infinite 3-D universes, unless causally closed from one another by a separate spacetime or existence, only count for a higher level of this tier. Being “infinitely” stronger than this level, unless uncountably so, does not qualify for any higher tier.


KingPin0422's version:

3-A: Universe level​

Characters who can create or destroy all celestial bodies within a 3-D space at least equivalent in size to the observable universe via an omnidirectional explosion that covers the entire space, alternatively those who can significantly affect[1] a 3-D universe or pocket dimension of comparable size without also affecting time.

High 3-A: High Universe level​

Characters who demonstrate an infinite amount of energy on a 3-D scale, such as creating or destroying infinite mass, affecting an infinite 3-D space, or affecting an infinite number of finite or infinite-sized 3-D universes or pocket dimensions when not accounting for any higher dimensions or time. Large numbers of infinite 3-D universes, unless causally closed from one another by separate spacetime continuums, only count for a higher level of this tier. Being “infinitely” stronger than this level, unless uncountably so, does not qualify for any higher tier.


Can somebody clarify the specific differences in their respective consequences please?
 
Current:

Characters who can destroy all celestial bodies within a volume at least equivalent to the observable universe via an omnidirectional explosion, alternately create or significantly affect[1] a universe of comparable size, which does not involve the destruction and/or creation of space-time.

Characters who demonstrate an infinite amount of energy on a 3-D scale, or those who can affect an infinite 3-D area or an infinite number of finite or infinite universes when not accounting for any higher dimensions or time, or more generally any realm of comparable size. Large numbers of infinite universes, unless causally closed from one another by a separate spacetime or existence, only count for a higher level of this tier. Being “infinitely” stronger than this level, unless uncountably so, does not qualify for any higher tier.

Firestorm808:

Characters who can create or destroy all celestial bodies within a finite 3-D space at least equivalent in size to the observable universe via an omnidirectional explosion, alternately create or significantly affect[1] a finite 3-D universe or a pocket dimension of comparable size, which does not involve the destruction and/or creation of space-time.

Characters who demonstrate an infinite amount of energy on a 3-D scale, such as creating or destroying infinite mass, or those who can affect an infinite 3-D space. This extends to an infinite number of finite or infinite-sized 3-D universes or pocket dimensions when not accounting for higher dimensions or time. Large numbers of infinite 3-D universes, unless causally closed from one another by a separate spacetime or existence, only count for a higher level of this tier. Being “infinitely” stronger than this level, unless uncountably so, does not qualify for any higher tier.

KingPin0422's version:

Characters who can create or destroy all celestial bodies within a 3-D space at least equivalent in size to the observable universe via an omnidirectional explosion that covers the entire space, alternatively those who can significantly affect[1] a 3-D universe or pocket dimension of comparable size without also affecting time.

Characters who demonstrate an infinite amount of energy on a 3-D scale, such as creating or destroying infinite mass, affecting an infinite 3-D space, or affecting an infinite number of finite or infinite-sized 3-D universes or pocket dimensions when not accounting for any higher dimensions or time. Large numbers of infinite 3-D universes, unless causally closed from one another by separate spacetime continuums, only count for a higher level of this tier. Being “infinitely” stronger than this level, unless uncountably so, does not qualify for any higher tier.
 
Last edited:
Okay, and are there any practical consequences for the distinctions between your and KingPin's versions?
 
Antvasima said:
Okay, and are there any practical consequences for the distinctions between your and KingPin's versions?
Click to expand...
In firestorm's version distinction between 3a and high 3a has been established by limiting 3a to be finite.

In kingpin version of 3a it has been established that regardless of how much matter is present in the observable sized dimension, destroying it wouldn't get you to 3a but through a explosion that covers that entire space.

Other then these 2 there is no practical difference.

Both have something good that should be combined into one ig.
 
Reiner said:
In firestorm's version distinction between 3a and high 3a has been established by limiting 3a to be finite.

In kingpin version of 3a it has been established that regardless of how much matter is present in the observable sized dimension, destroying it wouldn't get you to 3a but through a explosion that covers that entire space.

Other then these 2 there is no practical difference.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the clarifications.
Reiner said:
Both have something good that should be combined into one ig.
Click to expand...
I agree with this conclusion.

Would you be willing to handle it, @Firestorm808 ?
 
Firestorm808 said:
Proposed Changes

3-A: Universe level​

Characters who can create or destroy all celestial bodies within a finite 3-D space at least equivalent in size to the observable universe via an omnidirectional explosion that covers the entire space, alternately create or significantly affect[1] a finite 3-D universe or a pocket dimension of comparable size, which does not involve the destruction and/or creation of space-time.

High 3-A: High Universe level​

Characters who demonstrate an infinite amount of energy on a 3-D scale, such as creating or destroying infinite mass, or those who can affect an infinite 3-D space. This extends to an infinite number of finite or infinite-sized 3-D universes or pocket dimensions when not accounting for higher dimensions or time. Large numbers of infinite 3-D universes, unless causally closed from one another by a separate spacetime or existence, only count for a higher level of this tier. Being “infinitely” stronger than this level, unless uncountably so, does not qualify for any higher tier.
Click to expand...
@Firestorm808 I added it, just addition of "that covers the entire space" was only thing that was different.
 

-Firestorm's and kingpin's combined version.​


3-A: Universe level​

Characters who can create or destroy all celestial bodies within a finite 3-D space at least equivalent in size to the observable universe via an omnidirectional explosion that covers the entire space, alternately create or significantly affect[1] a finite 3-D universe or a pocket dimension of comparable size, which does not involve the destruction and/or creation of space-time continuum.

High 3-A: High Universe level​

Characters who demonstrate an infinite amount of energy on a 3-D scale, such as creating or destroying infinite mass, or those who can affect an infinite 3-D space. This extends to an infinite number of finite or infinite-sized 3-D universes or pocket dimensions when not accounting for any higher dimensions or time. Large numbers of infinite universes or infinite numbers of finite universes, unless causally closed from one another by a separate spacetime or existence, only count for a higher level of this tier. Being “infinitely” stronger than this level, unless uncountably so, does not qualify for any higher tier.

Note: I just removed "3D" from the line "large numbers of infinite 3D universes" because of some reasons and changed it to the line in current definition we have.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
@Antvasima

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Tiering System

The following is a comprehensive overview of the hierarchical system the VS Battles Wiki utilizes to properly categorize and index fictional characters, entities, and objects based on the scale of their feats and the varying scopes that they can affect or create/destroy. Though Destructive...
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