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Tatsumaki (OPM) vs Merlin (NNT)

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Kachon123 said:
qMkDItM.png


Drop a scan of Merlin's resistance to getting crushed instantly
Click to expand...
Here
 
Kachon123 said:
You're creating a limit to Tatsumaki's ability that's never been shown. Unless it's stated that Tatsumaki's proficiency with the esper abilities is better when using hand gestures, this point is null.
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No I'm not. I'm going off feats. She has used TK crush on monsters both thought based and with gesture. The former was not instant so why would i assume it suddenly is?
 
JustANormalPerson01 said:
This is getting ridiculous. Tatsumaki crushed 3/4 of Orochi's body with sight, only stopping because she wanted her to live. Saying she can't crush someone's body entirely is stupid
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That's still not instant TK crush. Like do you think I'm doubting tats can use thought based TK.

You all are arguing for a specific thing. Instantly crushing someone down to the cellular level. Basically dangerously close to deconstruction.. now the only time I've seen this done instantly is with hand gesture.
When i see her use it with thought she has never once instantly crushed someone down to a cellular level..all I ask is for this scan
 
Maybe someone said it is not me. Seems we have different opinions on this. I'm gonna drop my one vote for Merlin and move on
 
Phoenks said:
Okay this guy is genuinely just trolling. He just posted scans of her doing TK with thoughts only.

Psychic power is based on the mind anyway. The hand gestures do not even matter. They are just for show.

I don't know why this is an argument. If this is seriously your best counter then please concede.
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Yeah, It's fully based on mind. Though sometimes they seem to control/coordinate the energy with their hands

anyway Tatsumaki FRA. or inconclusive?
 
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karo_senpaii said:
That's still not instant TK crush. Like do you think I'm doubting tats can use thought based TK.

You all are arguing for a specific thing. Instantly crushing someone down to the cellular level. Basically dangerously close to deconstruction.. now the only time I've seen this done instantly is with hand gesture.
When i see her use it with thought she has never once instantly crushed someone down to a cellular level..all I ask is for this scan
Click to expand...
You think a hand gesture really means anything to the abilities of espers, which is literally controlling things with their mind (as shown countless time on this thread)? As I said, this is silly. I'm stopping answering until a worth counter argument is brought, not just "espers can't do something that involves only their mind without using their hands"
 
This match is objectively a Tatsumaki victory.

The Merlin supporters already dug their own grave by providing multiple first moves for Merlin which the majority of are not instant win conditions. Thus she loses majority of the time to Tatsumaki's singular win condition.

It's not really debatable at this point. Merlin voters seem very clearly biased.
 
Merlin's BFR doesn't even surpass Tatsumaki's range. She's scales above her hyper-casual feats and Psykorochi's range due to having superior Psychic output. Merlin only scales also above her own calculations, which are 299 km, aka less than Tatsumaki's max range.

Her P&A state that her teleportation can send people to locations "thousands of miles distant," but it has no scans to support it so it doesn't actually apply to what she's able to do.
 
Lots of bad faith arguments from the NNN side here, Tatsumaki just TK crushes her as its her first move idk what were all these mental gymnastics to pretend she doesn't for...

Also, hand movements? Really? It's apparent those are for the sake of flair these are mind powers ffs of course they're thought based.

Tatsu FRA if I wasn't clear
 
We have brought up 1 wincons and 1 counter measure which is spammable BFR+ Infinity and Teleporting away constantly while prepping her next moves whilst teleporting

The first being a wincon she can’t escape and while Merlin can simply wait it out, the second instantly negates Tats wincon

I have already brought up Balor’s eye which I’m planning on responding to y’all last rebuttal which includes the likes of “she tries to…” which she doesn’t try to or “she doesn’t have enhanced senses” when on her profile she has extrasensory perception with a range of at least 299km
 
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Majinere566 said:
Spammable BFR+ Infinity or Teleporting away constantly while prepping her next moves whilst teleporting
Click to expand...
Kachon123 said:
Merlin's BFR doesn't even surpass Tatsumaki's range. She's scales above her hyper-casual feats and Psykorochi's range due to having superior Psychic output. Merlin only scales also above her own calculations, which are 299 km, aka less than Tatsumaki's max range.

Her P&A state that her teleportation can send people to locations "thousands of miles distant," but it has no scans to support it so it doesn't actually apply to what she's able to do.
Click to expand...
 
Difference between range and being caught in an endless teleportation loop spell buddy.

Plus sba dictates that the battle takes place in Central Park. Is tats willing enough to use destructive range attacks potentially fatally harming people? Genuine question
 
Majinere566 said:
Difference between range and being caught in an endless teleportation loop spell buddy.
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Even if she's hit with the first teleportation, Tatsumaki would still land her hit before the second teleportation occurs due to Merlin still being within her range and the crushing being instant.
 
Majinere566 said:
We have brought up 2 wincons, none of which tats has a direct counter to

Spammable BFR+ Infinity or Teleporting away constantly while prepping her next moves whilst teleporting

The first being a wincon she can’t escape and while Merlin can simply wait it out, the second instantly negates Tats wincon

I have already brought up Balor’s eye which I’m planning on responding to y’all last rebuttal which includes the likes of “she tries to…” which she doesn’t try to or “she doesn’t have enhanced senses” when on her profile she has extrasensory perception with a range of at least 299km
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Didn't we go over this? She just crushes her before being teleported

If to you this is a matter of who acts first then just vote incon but not for Merlin lol
 
Majinere566 said:
We have brought up 1 wincons and 1 counter measure which is spammable BFR+ Infinity and Teleporting away constantly while prepping her next moves whilst teleporting

The first being a wincon she can’t escape and while Merlin can simply wait it out, the second instantly negates Tats wincon

I have already brought up Balor’s eye which I’m planning on responding to y’all last rebuttal which includes the likes of “she tries to…” which she doesn’t try to or “she doesn’t have enhanced senses” when on her profile she has extrasensory perception with a range of at least 299km
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Wincon =/= First Move

You have discussed various first moves for Merlin. Not all of them are wincons.

I don't know how many times I have to say it.

Thought-based TK requires a thought-based win condition countermeasure, in order to get a draw.

So if Merlin does not use her thought-based win condition right off the bat 100% of the time, she loses the match.

If she does, it results in a draw, since Tatsumaki's first move stays the same 100% of the time.


What are you not understanding?

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that Merlin has 2 separate first moves. (You have discussed more than this but I want to keep it simple so you can understand)

1. She tries reading Tatsumaki's mind
2. She BFRs Tatsumaki to another dimension


Tatsumaki has 1 first move.

1. Thought-based TK crush


Let's run the data.

Reading Tatsumaki's mind VS Tatsumaki TK crush results in a Tatsumaki victory.

BFR to another dimension VS Thought-based TK crush is a drawn result since they are both thought based win conditions.

Thus, Tatsumaki wins a total of 75% of the time in this scenario.

Add on more Merlin first moves and the odds become more and more in Tatsumaki's favor.
 
Should the Merlin votes even count? They're objectively wrong until proven otherwise.
 
You know what my rebuttal is gonna be long asf and I doubt yall don’t even wanna see that nor do I care enough to write it so I’m done.

My vote still remains with Merlin
 
Majinere566 said:
You know what my rebuttal is gonna be long asf and I doubt yall don’t even wanna see that nor do I care enough to write it so I’m done.

My vote still remains with Merlin
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Objectively wrong based on everything said so far.
 
Recon1511 said:
Didn't we go over this? She just crushes her before being teleported

If to you this is a matter of who acts first then just vote incon but not for Merlin lol
Click to expand...
Merlin Teleportation is thought based also the thousands of kilometres comes from the fact that Vivian was sent to different time zones which is actually accepted by Byashura himself. Merlin teleportation can outpace faster opponents as shown with DK Zeldris as you can she with her reaction rating.
 
speedster352 said:
This is going nowhere here are the win conditions.
Merlin’s thought based BFR which is thousands of kilometres and first move.
Tatsumaki thought based telekinesis.
Arguments that where not addressed
If Merlin sends Tatsumaki 1000+ kilometres away how does she respond?
Click to expand...
No one has addressed this you can’t just ignore something on a characters profiles just to vote for your character. Also Merlin has some healing beads so if she takes non life threatening injuries she can just heal herself.
 
Whatever passive mind reading via Balor’s eyes is called I really don’t care enough to continue this back and forth
 
At this point I think we should add a standard tactics for every character in the wiki, to evade things like this thread, in which every of NNT supporters says that Merlin starts with an entirely different move.
 
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