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Top 15 Strongest Characters for Every Tier

G33kedzinx said:
That’s a lot compared to elder scrolls, I think they’re just 2 layers. Also should it not be infinite layers for the mystery and countless for the never queen ?
Click to expand...
Actually, Ultima wrote the following:

TL;DR Marvel's meta-cosmology consists of six stacked realms, each transcending the previous one: The Neutral Zone (Malkuth), The Far Shore, The Beyond (Yesod), The White-Hot Room (Tiferet), Da'at and The House of Ideas (Kether). The relationship between them is as follows:

House of Ideas = The realm of pure oneness where only The One Above All exists, transcending all else. It is from here that infinite stories are born, but they are still only ideas, and have to go through several stages before they can become a world.

Da'at = The realm containing all possibility and impossibility. Here, God starts to consider ways in which his creation could be, as well as the ones in which it could not be.

White Hot-Room = The realm of the fires of creation, which forge the possibilities of Da'at into actuality. Here, God says "Let there be light," and the surge of energy that follows is the Big Bang thet gives birth to the cosmos.

Beyond = The foundation on which the world to come will rest. Here, the creative energies produced in the White-Hot Room are harnessed and start being organized and solidified into something concrete. Whereas the White-Hot Room precedes the birth of form, Yesod is the place in which the shape of creation is sketched out, beginning to exist in idea, but not in actuality.

The Far Shore = The pathway between The Neutral Zone and the Beyond, above space, time, life, death and self.

The Neutral Zone = The lowest world. The omniverse as a whole.

So, long story short, The One Above All is 8 levels above baseline High 1-A. There are infinite layers of emanation above them, and a nebulous, unknowable "Godhead" above them all.
Click to expand...
 
Eseseso said:
Marvel Comics High 1-A layers go like this:

Superflow (baseline) < Omniversal Eternity (1 layer) < Beyond Realm (2 layers) < White Hot Room (3 layers) < Land of Couldn't Be, Shouldn't Be (4 layers) < Land of Can Be, Shall Be (5 layers) < House of Ideas (6 layers)

The One Above All resides in the House of Ideas.
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Soooo

The White Phoenix is above Eternity? What about the other Cosmos that came before Eternity, where would they be in this scaling?
 
Oliver_de_jesus said:
I think that quote refers to the infinite unknown levels in cosmology, cuz there are still things above TOAA
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Maybe, but the marvel cosmology blog is outdated and will hopefully be updated soon because I don’t think that's what defenders beyond was trying to depict.
 
XDragnoir said:
Soooo

The White Phoenix is above Eternity?
Click to expand...
Indeed.

The White Hot Room is a layer above the Beyond Realm, which in turn is a layer above Eternity.

Btw, The True Phoenix and everything on an equal or higher plane to it is Type 5 Acausal.
XDragnoir said:
What about the other Cosmos that came before Eternity, where would they be in this scaling?
Click to expand...
They should all be the same as Omniversal Eternity, especially as the First Firmament, aka the First Cosmos, overpowered a weakened Omniversal Eternity.
 
Robo432343 said:
where should we put this dude
vsbattles.fandom.com

Kamen Rider Oma Zi-O

Sougo Tokiwa (常磐ソウゴ Tokiwa Sōgo) is the future version of his present day self who rules the Earth in 2068 as Oma Zi-O (オーマジオウ Ōma Jiō), alternatively spelled Ohma Zi-O, and also referred to as the Demon King (魔王 Ma Ō) by the characters of the series. Tier: At least Low 1-C, likely higher Name...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
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Darkseid got fodderized by another Kamen Rider that Oma stomp, and he would have all of that guy ability because Oma.
 
Nicetoderp said:
Kamen Rider Zi-O over Ji Ning in 1-C, he passively delete all of Ji Ning Abilities on Type 1 Conceptual level.
Click to expand...
With the CRT that is about to go through, Ning resists quite a few layers of type 1 concept hax and several different ways to apply it (essentially everything he does is conceptual in nature and so is everything he resists).

His ability to fuse with these type 1 concepts (which have layered Transduality, mind you) as well as his ability to create a black hole that absorbs or ablates all abilities that try to hit him are his best defensive abilities (after his layered resistances, that is).

Offensively, he can instantly kill/erase all the aspects of someone with layered 8D resistances to type 1 concept death hax.

All of this applies to Ning's 3A key, I am not even talking about the 1C ones yet. Can Zi-O do anything against this?

Edit: Now that I think about it, how strong is Kingprotea? Is she an 1A smurf or anything above 8D?
 
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XDragnoir said:
With the CRT that is about to go through, Ning resists quite a few layers of type 1 concept hax and several different ways to apply it (essentially everything he does is conceptual in nature and so is everything he resists).
Click to expand...
How many layers are we talking? If it's 3 layers then he doesn't resist it. Lower then he'll shrug it off. However, he can increase his layers by making new ability.
XDragnoir said:
His ability to fuse with these type 1 concepts (which have layered Transduality, mind you) as well as his ability to create a black hole that absorbs or ablates all abilities that try to hit him are his best defensive abilities (after his layered resistances, that is).

Offensively, he can instantly kill/erase all the aspects of someone with layered 8D resistances to type 1 concept death hax.
Click to expand...
Oma resist Fusionism. And resist layered conceptual powernull and resist resistance neg as well. He has interact with Type 2 non-dual via bodied Zi-O 2 but not sure if he can interact with layered transdual.

Oma have High Godly Conceptual, History, Plot regen.

How good is his plot hax resistances?
 
Nicetoderp said:
How many layers are we talking? If it's 3 layers then he doesn't resist it. Lower then he'll shrug it off. However, he can increase his layers by making new ability.
Click to expand...
For his 3A key it would already be something in the 2, maybe 3 layers, the actual 1C key would be more (4 or 5 at the bare minimum).

Nicetoderp said:
Oma resist Fusionism.
Click to expand...
I think you misunderstood, Ning uses fusionism on himself so that others can't sense or affect him (unless you have the feats for destroying type 1 concepts that have layered Transduality, that is).

Nicetoderp said:
And resist layered conceptual powernull and resist resistance neg as well.
Click to expand...
How many layers for each of these are we talking about? Again, most if not all of Ning's powers are somewhere from 4 to 5 layers in 8D.

Nicetoderp said:
He has interact with Type 2 non-dual via bodied Zi-O 2 but not sure if he can interact with layered transdual.
Click to expand...
Ning could deal with baseline type 2 Transduality by his 4B key (which is before he got it himself, mind you), so that doesn't seem to be enough.

Nicetoderp said:
Oma have High Godly Conceptual, History, Plot regen.

How good is his plot hax resistances?
Click to expand...
Sadly, Ning doesn't have plot hax, is Oma's plot hax passive? What could he do with it against Ning?
 
XDragnoir said:
Sadly, Ning doesn't have plot hax, is Oma's plot hax passive? What could he do with it against Ning?
Click to expand...
It isn't passive. However, he can do just about anything with it. If he think you get punch and die then you will, in fact, get punch and die.
 
Nicetoderp said:
It isn't passive. However, he can do just about anything with it. If he think you get punch and die then you will, in fact, get punch and die.
Click to expand...
That's... a NLF at its best.

Unless he has killed someone with Transduality on Ning's level, he's not killing him with it at all.
 
XDragnoir said:
That's... a NLF at its best.

Unless he has killed someone with Transduality on Ning's level, he's not killing him with it at all.
Click to expand...
No? Transduality only applies to the specific dualities that are transcended, if plot is not among them, the NLF is saying that the plot manipulation will be resisted.
On the other hand, characters with transduality exist outside and independently of the logical systems that they're nondual regarding while also possessing qualitative superiority to them. Besides immunizing them against the dualities in question, this power also immunizes them against attempts to apply those dualities to them, as they would transcend the scope of the haxes that could do so.
Click to expand...
 
Lynieryz said:
No? Transduality only applies to the specific dualities that are transcended, if plot is not among them, the NLF is saying that the plot manipulation will be resisted.
Click to expand...
I am not saying Ning will resist Plot hax, indeed, where did I ever imply he would?

The deal is, what can he actually do with that plot hax that can defeat Ning? Killing him isn't an option as death is among the dualities he transcends, that's akin to saying you're going to punch a NEP 2 character to death without having feats of interacting with one, just change NEP2 for TD2.
 
XDragnoir said:
I am not saying Ning will resist Plot hax, indeed, where did I ever imply he would?

The deal is, what can he actually do with that plot hax that can defeat Ning? Killing him isn't an option as death is among the dualities he transcends, that's akin to saying you're going to punch a NEP 2 character to death without having feats of interacting with one, just change NEP2 for TD2.
Click to expand...
Literally anything, you have to have very little creativity to think that there is nothing else that can be done.

Oma can decide that Ji Ning has to go away and win by BFR.

Oma can decide that Ji Ning will do nothing and win by incap.

And between these two Wincons that exist, there are infinite possibilities of what Oma can do to reach them.
 
Lynieryz said:
Literally anything, you have to have very little creativity to think that there is nothing else that can be done.

Oma can decide that Ji Ning has to go away and win by BFR.

Oma can decide that Ji Ning will do nothing and win by incap.

And between these two Wincons that exist, there are infinite possibilities of what Oma can do to reach them.
Click to expand...
And which of these things has he ever done in character before? At which point would he try them?

Ning needs little more than a thought to kill or permanently incap Oma with layered hax that he doesn't resist (alongside passive future sight and info analysis to know what would be better to do).
 
XDragnoir said:
And which of these things has he ever done in character before? At which point would he try them?
Click to expand...
Oma in character finds any fight that is not personally related to himself a nuisance and wants to end them as quickly as possible, he will simply look into the future and see what is the most efficient way to end the fight.
XDragnoir said:
Ning needs little more than a thought to kill or permanently incap Oma with layered hax that he doesn't resist
Click to expand...
You have to be much more specific than that, Oma literally has all types of immortality and countless hax to get out of incap or not even be affected in the first place.
XDragnoir said:
(alongside passive future sight and info analysis to know what would be better to do).
Click to expand...
Aca2, Aca4 and transcendent in relation to the duality of space-time.
 
Last edited:
Lynieryz said:
Oma in character finds any fight that is not personally related to himself a nuisance and wants to end them as quickly as possible, he will simply look into the future and see what is the most efficient way to end the fight.
Click to expand...
Ning has layered type 4 acausality and layered transcendence of the duality of space and time himself, with his time related powers (future sight, time stop, etc) all affecting characters with these same abilities + there are 2 time dimensions in the DE cosmology, the default one and a higher one, so his time stuff is inherently better than Oma's unless he has this as well.

Lynieryz said:
You have to be much more specific than that, Oma literally has all types of immortality and countless hax to get out of incap or not even be affected in the first place.
Click to expand...
Again, as Nicetoderp already said Oma's layers are below Ning's, in his own words Oma can't resist 3 layers, Ning is at 4 with every single hax at the bare minimum and would be well aware in the case of him being unable to kill Oma and would instantly go for incap using any hax he has that Oma can't resist.

Also, I didn't know Transduality over Life and Death gave type 5 immortality, Ning should have that as well LMAO.

Lynieryz said:
Aca2, Aca4 and transcendent in relation to the duality of space-time.
Click to expand...
Read above.
 
XDragnoir said:
Ning has layered type 4 acausality and layered transcendence of the duality of space and time himself, with his time related powers (future sight, time stop, etc) all affecting characters with these same abilities + there are 2 time dimensions in the DE cosmology, the default one and a higher one, so his time stuff is inherently better than Oma's unless he has this as well.
Click to expand...
Valid in Aca4 and the additional temporal dimension means nothing if it doesn't add anything beyond the dimensional scale that Ji Ning is already in because dimensionality in general already results in the same.
XDragnoir said:
Again, as Nicetoderp already said Oma's layers are below Ning's, in his own words Oma can't resist 3 layers, Ning is at 4 with every single hax at the bare minimum and would be well aware in the case of him being unable to kill Oma and would instantly go for incap using any hax he has that Oma can't resist.
Click to expand...
You have to be more specific, my comment was never about Oma resisting, but rather in the sense of hax interaction, Oma has hax that takes him out of incon depending on the hax's functionality that's why I need to know what you're talking about, can you explain what incap are you talking about and how it works?
 
Lynieryz said:
Valid in Aca4 and the additional temporal dimension means nothing if it doesn't add anything beyond the dimensional scale that Ji Ning is already in because dimensionality in general already results in the same.
Click to expand...
I am pretty sure I've seen a few threads where a character having an extra temporal dimension allowed them to affect/resist others.

I think Digimon has this up to this day, as the Digital World has its own higher temporal dimension.

Lynieryz said:
You have to be more specific, my comment was never about Oma resisting, but rather in the sense of hax interaction, Oma has hax that takes him out of incon depending on the hax's functionality that's why I need to know what you're talking about, can you explain what incap are you talking about and how it works?
Click to expand...
He can trap Oma in illusions, stop his time, erase his memories of Ning or just overall mind control and just like how Oma can set the plot so that Ning will do this or that, Ning can do the same thing through fate.

And just to be sure, but can plot hax affect someone at a higher dimensional level than the user?
 
XDragnoir said:
I am pretty sure I've seen a few threads where a character having an extra temporal dimension allowed them to affect/resist others.

I think Digimon has this up to this day, as the Digital World has its own higher temporal dimension.


He can trap Oma in illusions, stop his time, erase his memories of Ning or just overall mind control and just like how Oma can set the plot so that Ning will do this or that, Ning can do the same thing through fate.

And just to be sure, but can plot hax affect someone at a higher dimensional level than the user?
Click to expand...
Calm down, I'm confused, I was arguing about Oma until now but I just realized that Oma doesn't have a key in 1-C, The person Nicetoderp nominated was Zi-O, I was discussing the wrong character...
 
Lou Bai should be above the doctor, if I remember correctly his bs luck is only 11-D, instead of 1-B, and even if all of his hax were 1-B, he still gets memed by DT bullcrap
 
Livinmeme said:
Lou Bai should be above the doctor, if I remember correctly his bs luck is only 11-D, instead of 1-B, and even if all of his hax were 1-B, he still gets memed by DT bullcrap
Click to expand...

Sure, the doctor is outdated and I'm too lazy to update him.

However, it is possible that even the Low 1-C keys will become 1-B (which was technically accepted in the 1.0 CRT, I think were like over 30 dimensions) or high 1-B (this is new information post-1.0 CRT), if the next revision of Asura 1.5 is accepted, which is taking ages.
 
Oliver_de_jesus said:
Sure, the doctor is outdated and I'm too lazy to update him.

However, it is possible that even the Low 1-C keys will become 1-B (which was technically accepted in the 1.0 CRT, I think were like over 30 dimensions) or high 1-B (this is new information post-1.0 CRT), if the next revision of Asura 1.5 is accepted, which is taking ages.
Click to expand...
I doubt that it could beat DT, even with all of the upgrades, considering DT is arguably one, if not the most haxed verse in the wiki...Apart from WOD (I think?). But good luck with your CRT, I know how it is to make a CRT, and be forced to bump it for months
 
I just checked and thankfully it doesn't change essentially anything other than everything about Zi-O being 8D.
XDragnoir said:
He can trap Oma in illusions, stop his time, erase his memories of Ning or just overall mind control and just like how Oma can set the plot so that Ning will do this or that, Ning can do the same thing through fate.
Click to expand...
Zi-O time-stop resistance is at 4 layers, ironically Zi-O's memories have type 8 immortality dependent on the inhabitants of the real world[yes, his memories have hax🤷], the only ones that would work would be mind control and illusions, can you explain how they both work?

And Zi-O will most likely start with plot manipulation because unlike Oma he is against killing and that would be the most effective way for neither of them to get hurt.
 
Livinmeme said:
I doubt that it could beat DT, even with all of the upgrades, considering DT is arguably one, if not the most haxed verse in the wiki...Apart from WOD (I think?).
Click to expand...
eh, tier 1-B/High 1-B probably has Low 1-A/1-A level hax, the N-Space (main universe) Peak in 1-B/High 1-B, being the baseline for feats that involve the entirety of a single universe, anything that directly affects two or the multiverse is likely to be Low 1-A/1-A or very high level in High 1-B

Livinmeme said:
But good luck with your CRT, I know how it is to make a CRT, and be forced to bump it for months
Click to expand...
Thanks
 
Lynieryz said:
Zi-O time-stop resistance is at 4 layers, ironically Zi-O's memories have type 8 immortality dependent on the inhabitants of the real world[yes, his memories have hax🤷], the only ones that would work would be mind control and illusions, can you explain how they both work?
Click to expand...
As I said in the other post, 4 to 5 layers is the bare minimum.

As for the mind/illusion hax, his profile has scans explaining it (mainly illusion hax, there aren't many regarding his mind manipulation in his second profile).

Lynieryz said:
And Zi-O will most likely start with plot manipulation because unlike Oma he is against killing and that would be the most effective way for neither of them to get hurt.
Click to expand...
Again, has it ever affected another 8D or a 9D character? Is it passive?
 
vsbattles.fandom.com

Khadgar

Khadgar is perhaps the most accomplished of all living wizards[6] and one of the most powerful magi in Azerothian history.[7] Khadgar currently acts as the leader of the Kirin Tor. He was an apprentice to the Guardian Medivh, until he helped defeat his possessed master.[4] Though he was...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

Khadgar for 7th 7-A.

ignoring his wall of hax and being a character who in all practical senses is 5-B, he stomps Test into the dirt casually

and before it is asked, yes, Khadgar would ******* DUMPSTER Death Knight Arthas in a fight.
 
Ji Ning's CRT passed so currently;
  • His Lord of Chaos key is 9-D.
  • He has Type 2 NEP and Plurality.
  • He has Type 1 CM.

He should handily beat out Zi-O now.
 
Planck69 said:
Ji Ning's CRT passed so currently;
  • His Lord of Chaos key is 9-D.
  • He has Type 2 NEP and Plurality.
  • He has Type 1 CM.

He should handily beat out Zi-O now.
Click to expand...
The only thing that matters there is 9D, does Autarch Omega Daos apply to all of his hax or just a specific number of them?
 
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