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Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

Guacamolefletcher said:
I just did a rough calc for this feat:

Naoya is punching at Maki. Each punch is happening in 1/24th of a second, and the entire move is moving from fully extending his arm to punch to bringing it back to his right shoulder, kinda like this


So somoene's wing span = their height, roughly.
Arm length and shoulder to shoulder length are all roughly 1/3 of wing span, so 1/3 of height roughly.

Naoya is about as tall as Choso, so 1.74 m height.

Assuming this is what he's doing, Naoya is roughly moving the green line here in 1/24th of a second, as that is what projection sorcery does:


So he's roughly moving his fist through 2/3 of his height. Sice it's an arc motion, **** it, lets highball it to 4/5ths of his height. That distance is crossed in exactly 1/24th of a second, so the math is:

Speed = (4/5 {percentage of his height each punch hypothetically moved} * 1.74 m) / (1/24) = 33.408 m/s

So being generous, eyeballing, we get Naoya's attack speed vs Maki here at 33.408 m/s, and this can't even be debated because we know that the timeframe is exactly 1/24th of a second.

TLDR: Naoya Zen'in saw it OK to attack Maki, who he already knew wiped out the rest of the Hei filled with capable semi-grade 1 to grade 1 sorcerers with generously Superhuman+ speeds.
Click to expand...

dude the average punch speed of an MMA fighter is 18,01 m/s are you really gonna claim that mr 24 times amp to speed is not even twice the average? Like really?
 
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I remember I was gonna make a big blog for the scaling metas to see which are more accurate but then Sukuna got hit by sound, Kashimo died, and Kenjaku just said bye and after that I became hard locked in supersonic
 
Projection sorcery allowing a sorcerer to move in 24 frame increments doesn't mean that each punch needs to be within a singular frame given we don't know how it's restricting / defining "movement", so when we see them send a barrage of punches it's perfectly consistent for several punches to be within a single frame - not each punch is moving within the time frame of 0.042 seconds.

Furthermore, let's assume it is the case it's a punch per 0.042 seconds, you'd be disregarding NUMEROUS accepted calcs and feats for sub-Toji tiers being above superhuman speeds for the sake of a single calc? How is this any better logically founded than the FTL JJK meta you hate so much? If anything yours is worse given Maki isn't even tagged by these punches, it's not even a necessary anti-feat. So what's more likely, for a verse to have a mountain of outliers and have its speed scaling decided by 1 calc or for Naoya to miscalculate his speed? Once again, this is all assuming the foundations of your calc are true.
 
Rosa said:
No evidence of this
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Naoya makes 24 movements every second.

Maki was punching each movement, and if you count the number of punches he was making, it matches up with what she was counting at the time

- This explains why once he makes a movement, he needs to use a long-ass distance to correct his course, because the maximum distance he can cross in every movement is 343 m/s * (1/24) s or 14.29 meters
When projection sorcery is explained in Shibuya, it's explained that you have to pre-trace movements in 24fps:

- This is why it makes sense that when someone wants to move super fast, they use longer movements to still abide by the 24fps rule. Throwing 25 punches in 1 second doesn't abide by that 24fps rule. Neither does 1000 punches per second
Consistent with how long he moves each time:

- Like, yeah, just eyeballing the distance he moved once he slapped Maki, it looks like he moved 7 meters behind her and was moving 7 meters back, and all of that would fit into the 24fps rule

Rosa said:
Furthermore, let's assume it is the case it's a punch per 0.042 seconds, you'd be disregarding NUMEROUS accepted calcs and feats for sub-Toji tiers being above superhuman speeds for the sake of a single calc?
Click to expand...
It's not even just a single calc. it's the case for any punch baragge with projection jujutsu, which by lore happens in the series. in order to be, let's say 100% the speed of sound with a baragge of punches, each punch needs to cross 14 meters. This doesn't happen because Naoya and Naobito aren't that tall. In fact, now that I think about it the reason Naobito was faster than Naoya was probably that he's taller since it would allow him to cross more distance with each movement, though this might be too headcanon.
 
Arkenis said:
Jokes he says.... as if Sub rel Toji, and FTL purple weren't being calced and argued just three years ago
Click to expand...
dude some people argued for Rel bullets in another verse, there are always gonna be weird fellas, the main meta is.

low tiers: superhuman to low sub
mid tiers: sub to sub+
top tiers: sub+ to supersonic+
god tiers: hypersonic to hypersonic+
 
Guacamolefletcher said:
Naoya makes 24 movements every second.

Maki was punching each movement, and if you count the number of punches he was making, it matches up with what she was counting at the time

- This explains why once he makes a movement, he needs to use a long-ass distance to correct his course, because the maximum distance he can cross in every movement is 343 m/s * (1/24) s or 14.29 meters
When projection sorcery is explained in Shibuya, it's explained that you have to pre-trace movements in 24fps:

- This is why it makes sense that when someone wants to move super fast, they use longer movements to still abide by the 24fps rule. Throwing 25 punches in 1 second doesn't abide by that 24fps rule. Neither does 1000 punches per second
Consistent with how long he moves each time:

- Like, yeah, just eyeballing the distance he moved once he slapped Maki, it looks like he moved 7 meters behind her and was moving 7 meters back, and all of that would fit into the 24fps rule


It's not even just a single calc. it's the case for any punch baragge with projection jujutsu, which by lore happens in the series. in order to be, let's say 100% the speed of sound with a baragge of punches, each punch needs to cross 14 meters. This doesn't happen because Naoya and Naobito aren't that tall. In fact, now that I think about it the reason Naobito was faster than Naoya was probably that he's taller since it would allow him to cross more distance with each movement, though this might be too headcanon.
Click to expand...

yea I already precogged this response and wrote a debunk
 
Sir_sun_man said:
dude the average punch speed of an MMA fighter is 11,01 m/s are you really gonna claim that mr 24 times amp to speed is barely 3 times the average? Like really?
Click to expand...
It's never been a 24 times amp. Also the reaction times for the MMA fighters are still around .2 - .1 seconds, and considering how long it takes for them to accelerate to that speed because they're just humans at the end of the day, it's entirely reasonable.

Rosa said:
yea I already precogged this response and wrote a debunk
Click to expand...
Your consistency argument doesn't work because I already adressed the counters. Someone can physically push themselves to move faster than they can react in 1 meter (combat speed definition), while having speeds below that.

Calcs are based on assumptions while this meta is the most correct, being based upon lore itself

Sir_sun_man said:
oh an btw a kick from a professional fighter comes out to around 27 m/s

Naoya is barely kick speed confirmed.
Click to expand...
This is the peak speed of said professional fighters though. It doesn't work out for their average speed, which is way lower. Also again, not my fault that Gege made it so that someone who's super fast animates their movement in a frame rate where even gaming is hard for normal humans.

I can't play csgo at 24fps. Not my fault that Gege made movement that is possible to be animated in 24fps can be pre-planned to be capable of reaching superhuman speeds and keep up with grade 1s
 
Guacamolefletcher said:
It's never been a 24 times amp. Also the reaction times for the MMA fighters are still around .2 - .1 seconds, and considering how long it takes for them to accelerate to that speed because they're just humans at the end of the day, it's entirely reasonable.
Click to expand...
24 movements in a single second, 24 punches, in a single second. MY MAN! THAT IS NOT 33 M/S STOP WITH THE SPEED BRAIN ROT FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
Naoya making 24 moves in a second ≠ he is only moving 24m/s
Click to expand...
Look how I didn't claim 24 m/s in the calc. I was generous and arrived at around 33. I don't agree that it'd just be one meter for Naoya's punches here because he's moving from extending his arm completely to moving his fist to his left shoulder here

Idk where these people getting moves = Meters 😭
Click to expand...
Dude, to punch twice it's at least two movements. To do that in 2 / 24ths of a second, or 1/12th of a second, and move super fsat you need to move a huge distance. if you're physically static, just punching from moving your shoulder it's not gonna be fast
 
Guacamolefletcher said:
Your consistency argument doesn't work because I already adressed the counters. Someone can physically push themselves to move faster than they can react in 1 meter (combat speed definition), while having speeds below that.
Click to expand...
This doesn't address it at all.

Your entire response was presupposing that by them having 24fps movement that must mean each punch is registered as it's own separate "movement" and therefore bound by fps, but you could never prove that it doesn't consider 20 punches a separate movement. Then your argument where you counted the punches, you literally just miscounted, there's blurred fists on the screen which you just neglected to make it seem like Maki was counting the punches lmfaooo
 
Rosa said:
This doesn't address it at all.

Your entire response was presupposing that by them having 24fps movement that must mean each punch is registered as it's own separate "movement" and therefore bound by fps, but you could never prove that it doesn't consider 20 punches a separate movement. Then your argument where you counted the punches, you literally just miscounted, there's blurred fists on the screen which you just neglected to make it seem like Maki was counting the punches lmfaooo
Click to expand...
This is literally what that means, and we're shown this by Maki's counting bro.

20 punches are more than 1 movement, so it can't possibly be more than 1 punch in each 1/24th of a second interval

You can't do this in projection sorcery all in 1/24th of a second since it violates the rule
 
Undylan said:
If Yuji does use a domain expansion eventually. What you think its power would be and what would it look like?
Click to expand...
eeehhhh

soul bullshit I guess? or blood? or cleave and dismant- YOU KNOW WHAT!? **** IT! HE GETS ALL THOSE SURE HITS AT ONCE

He'll throw out dismantles that will enter your blood stream destroying your cells while also ripping apart your soul while their at it.
 
Guacamolefletcher said:
This is literally what that means, and we're shown this by Maki's counting bro.

20 punches are more than 1 movement, so it can't possibly be more than 1 punch in each 1/24th of a second interval
Click to expand...
how are you defining "1 movement"? Show scans of the series ever defining the limits of what can be considered a singular movement, because it never does. "1 movement" is incredibly vague and can be used to prescribe any value of distance travelled, there's not a hard line here which demands us to think 1 punch = 1 movement.
 
Undylan said:
If Yuji does use a domain expansion eventually. What you think its power would be and what would it look like?
Click to expand...
It would just be either Blood Manipulation based with an endless amount of blood to draw from to further facilitate blood manipulation or based in malevolent shrine which I honestly don't know for how Yuji would focus his domain to be more his than Sukuna's in that case.
 
Rosa said:
how are you defining "1 movement"? Show scans of the series ever defining the limits of what can be considered a singular movement, because it never does. "1 movement" is incredibly vague and can be used to prescribe any value of distance travelled, there's not a hard line here which demands us to think 1 punch = 1 movement.
Click to expand...

It's literally explained in my post. Maki says 24 movements. 20 movements (punches) in 1/24th of a second is more than what's allowed.

How are you gonna claim that 20 punches would count as one movemnet when you need to move forwards and retract your arm, and that needs to be traced by each frame. You can't trace that in one frame without smearing, which isn't allowed by projection sorcery. Also you couldn't display the order of said punches which is necessary for projection jujutsu, so it has to be at most 1 punch per frame. Also this explains why people get caught in the 1 second frozen. It's because their movements are too complicated to be animated in 24fps
 
Guacamolefletcher said:

It's literally explained in my post. Maki says 24 movements. 20 movements (punches) in 1/24th of a second is more than what's allowed.
Click to expand...

I already addressed this, not only do we not see the movements which led up to this, the panel of Maki blocking shows her hands rising from her waist so you can't stack on the punches from the 2 panels as they're depicting the same scene from different angles, and also there's a lot of blurred lines conveying there's more punches than what can be cleanly counted. It's just a stretch to say Maki is counting individual punches as individual movements as you're assuming so much about the scene for it to be true.

Although, I could grant this entire point because again asserting this as an anti-feat doesn't make sense given she's catching the blows casually whilst injured and fatigued + has a mountain of feats above 30 m/s.
Guacamolefletcher said:
How are you gonna claim that 20 punches would count as one movemnet when you need to move forwards and retract your arm, and that needs to be traced by each frame.
Click to expand...
Because moving your arm out and in several times doesn't contradiction the boundaries of "one movement" as there's no definition or limit to what's considered "one movement" in verse.
 
Ped2018 said:
I thought Guaca was so cool when he only did Bleach, but these JJK discussions revelead him as a fraud
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I’m not, never been, and never will be a JJK debater. I discuss it unseriously because it’s fun to somewhat be a part of the JJK community as it’s still ongoing, and it’s something where the entire community joins together to read leaks and whatnot, while bleach is a seasonal series right now.

Also because I have IRL friends that read JJK. My jjk scaling isn’t reflective of my bleach scaling because I also haven’t reread the series fully from start to finish, which I think is necessary for me to have a solidified opinion. At the end of the day, it’s subjective and hence I said that’s my personal view of the series and not something I would force upon anyone on-site or offsite (even if I was super solid on it I wouldn’t “force” it, lol, but the point is it’s all very subject to change)
 
Duedate8898 said:
It would just be either Blood Manipulation based with an endless amount of blood to draw from to further facilitate blood manipulation or based in malevolent shrine which I honestly don't know for how Yuji would focus his domain to be more his than Sukuna's in that case.
Click to expand...
Yuji should learn Blood Bending and its GG for Sukuna.
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
In a single Movement you can move several meters.
24 movements ≠ 24 meters.
Click to expand...
I never disagreed with this btw, because obviously it’s objective that using projection sorcery, he can move at transonic speeds. I just explained how each frame would have to be like 14+ meters away. You can’t be moving transonic and have each frame be 1 meter away from each other, or something like that. Considering this, in order to punch someone at transonic speeds with projection sorcery you need to be running while you punch
 
Ped2018 said:
I thought Guaca was so cool when he only did Bleach, but these JJK discussions revelead him as a fraud
Click to expand...
Bleach scaling tends to be sure of itself with all the more blatant supernatural feats being done and the characters tend to represent this as though what's happening is all wondrous in nature. Looking at it outside of the verse, it makes sense a lot of JJK scaling is all over the place, Gege makes so many feats happen that collide with others, and makes statements that end up putting down the verse. And when he wants to display his god tiers as superior, its never through insane feats, its usually through superior skill feats or better cursed techniques.
 
Arkenis said:
Bleach scaling tends to be sure of itself with all the more blatant supernatural feats being done and the characters tend to represent this as though what's happening is all wondrous in nature. Looking at it outside of the verse, it makes sense a lot of JJK scaling is all over the place, Gege makes so many feats happen that collide with others, and makes statements that end up putting down the verse. And when he wants to display his god tiers as superior, its never through insane feats, its usually through superior skill feats or better cursed techniques.
Click to expand...
Bleach scaling is a lot more straight forward because there stronger = higher AP, and bottom tiers to top tiers are literally heaven to earth away, and it’s constantly portrayed that there’s basically an impossible to cross barrier between low tiers and top tiers.

A lieutenant class character from the soul society arc can’t even react to or harm someone that’s captain level. They get their swords cut through with bare handed attacks and they get blitzed to the point where they can’t even tell what happened. Then thats chained like 30 times over with stated multipliers and consistently portrayed inverse scaling… just to reach base Aizen tier, with the god tiers shaking the universe itself and no one with anti feats having anything near their level

In JJK, it’s not as layered, and high-tier hyped feats are Mach 3, and you have to work around stuff like below Mach 3 speeds blitzing people who aren’t that drastically slower than other things, in a seemingly contradictory way. Also there’s less guidebooks and it’s not finished yet. The powercliffing in general isn't that insane. Yuji doesn't grow like Ichigo does. In one arc, in the span of a few hours, Ichigo grows insanely quantifiably stronger. Let's say the equivalent of growing from a grade 3 sorcerer to like Kenjaku level, while Yuji goes from grade 1 level in the Mahito arc to exactly grade 1 level in Shibuya. Ichigo goes from tier 6 and fighting privaron espadas to above shaking the universe itself in literally 3 months of training.
 
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Guacamolefletcher said:
Bleach scaling is a lot more straight forward because there stronger = higher AP, and bottom tiers to top tiers are literally heaven to earth away, and it’s constantly portrayed that there’s basically an impossible to cross barrier between low tiers and top tiers.

A lieutenant class character from the soul society arc can’t even react to or harm someone that’s captain level. They get their swords cut through with bare handed attacks and they get blitzed to the point where they can’t even tell what happened. Then thats chained like 30 times over with stated multipliers and consistently portrayed inverse scaling… just to reach base Aizen tier, with the god tiers shaking the universe itself and no one with anti feats having anything near their level

In JJK, it’s not as layered, and high-tier hyped feats are Mach 3, and you have to work around stuff like below Mach 3 speeds blitzing people who aren’t that drastically slower than other things, in a seemingly contradictory way. Also there’s less guidebooks and it’s not finished yet. The powercliffing in general isn't that insane. Yuji doesn't grow like Ichigo does. In one arc, in the span of a few hours, Ichigo grows insanely quantifiably stronger. Let's say the equivalent of growing from a grade 3 sorcerer to like Kenjaku level, while Yuji goes from grade 1 level in the Mahito arc to exactly grade 1 level in Shibuya. Ichigo goes from tier 6 and fighting privaron espadas to above shaking the universe itself in literally 3 months of training.
Click to expand...
Yeah mach 3 was just random considering how Naoya's ability works, I was hoping he'd do some cool fps concepts. I think a major aspect Gege should've added was a group that was simply superior, instead we have special grade curses who can lose to first grades, and special grade sorcerers end up doing nothing in terms of feats till the later half of the series and when they do its nothing amazing. And then removing his special grades sorcerers for most of the series to only show us Gojo and Sukuna, didn't help in representing them as a group either. Imagine if the Espada were kept lowkey and then its just Kenpachi or Mayuri who kill most of them off like Gege did with Yuki or Geto.
 
Ok, was just sent this thread, and I gotta say what the f*ck. I don't go as far as some of the stuff argued here, and there's a lot wrong with it
vsbattles.com

Jujutsu Kaisen Speed Upgrade

Thanks for @Amost6x calculations and got the permission to use this. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Amost6x/Hakari_dodge_lightning Both @DemonGodMitchAubin and @Dark-Carioca said the mach 547 end is fine. Kashimo lightning works as how Real life lightining works and has same...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com

Cursed womb Naoya is supersonic, not mach 1:

Human Naoya is transonic:


I also don't agree with downgrading people because they got blitzed by mach 1 Naoya. Calcer logic doesn't always work in fiction like that, and 1.5x differences in speed can make all the difference in fiction. Maki can blitz humans, she's not peak human. Like, even to a normie it's clear that she's drastically superhuman, and it's not because of nothing that the author sees the Anime where Toji f*cking teleports around faster than the animation can catch, and he doesn't go "wait, Toji is actually human level bro, make it so that he doesn't teleport around to people like Megumi"
 
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