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Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

NGL people might have to change me from big subsonic to big superhuman. I'd say superhuman is consistent even with the projection sorcery punch barrages being slow as f*ck, yet they're still relevant to even someone like "physically gifted" Maki

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Hanami's Retrosonic Buds

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Consistent with those metas, and slower than I remembered. Feels bad but JJK was even slower than I thought the second time around. Bros' are just slow as f*ck
 
Duedate8898 said:
And finally, we do see that pixel effect with Yorozu. In fact, we see it in a situation just like when Mai creates the SSK. When Yorozu creates Supreme Martial Solution for Sukuna.
Click to expand...
lewissaunderson38-lewissaunderson.gif

Call it Kamutoke 😕
 
Guacamolefletcher said:
I'm saying like worst case scenario, this could explain how he can dodge it at close range while being subsonic.

He just amps himself to temporarily nigh-PB speed while having subsonic combat speeds. Considering this, I probably downgrade my personal scaling of JJK characters' speeds to like superhuman+ to around 100 m/s subsonic combat speeds for the top tiers, with only people like Sukuna or Gojo reaching Supersonic speeds and Mach 3 Naoya as a god tier, which can only be tagged by his predictable straight-line, no maneuverability, low reactions and combat speed but high attack speed movement.

I'd say superhuman grade 1s is consistent with the .01 second delay shit, and consistent with the buds from Hanami being around 55 m/s using the .01s timeframe

In fact, I'd say it's possible mach 3 > Sukuna and Gojo's combat speed
Click to expand...
Megumi will have to use Mahoraga against me
 
Guacamolefletcher said:
NGL people might have to change me from big subsonic to big superhuman. I'd say superhuman is consistent even with the projection sorcery punch barrages being slow as f*ck, yet they're still relevant to even someone like "physically gifted" Maki

vsbattles.fandom.com

Hanami's Retrosonic Buds

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Consistent with those metas, and slower than I remembered. Feels bad but JJK was even slower than I thought the second time around. Bros' are just slow as f*ck
Click to expand...
i hope you get banned from JJK discussion <3
 
Rosa said:
i hope you get banned from JJK discussion <3
Click to expand...
I'm sorry but I've reanalyzed the evidence and that's simply how it is

The reaction time for how long it took Kenjaku to react to PB is around like 30 m/s ish. Even if you chose mach 2 PB, you get below 100 m/s
 
Guacamolefletcher said:
NGL people might have to change me from big subsonic to big superhuman. I'd say superhuman is consistent even with the projection sorcery punch barrages being slow as f*ck, yet they're still relevant to even someone like "physically gifted" Maki

vsbattles.fandom.com

Hanami's Retrosonic Buds

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Consistent with those metas, and slower than I remembered. Feels bad but JJK was even slower than I thought the second time around. Bros' are just slow as f*ck
Click to expand...
The fact that in a few weeks you went from pushing the MHS meta to the superhuman meta is both kind off admirable and really funny
 
Guacamolefletcher said:
I'm saying like worst case scenario, this could explain how he can dodge it at close range while being subsonic.

He just amps himself to temporarily nigh-PB speed while having subsonic combat speeds. Considering this, I probably downgrade my personal scaling of JJK characters' speeds to like superhuman+ to around 100 m/s subsonic combat speeds for the top tiers, with only people like Sukuna or Gojo reaching Supersonic speeds and Mach 3 Naoya as a god tier, which can only be tagged by his predictable straight-line, no maneuverability, low reactions and combat speed but high attack speed movement.

I'd say superhuman grade 1s is consistent with the .01 second delay shit, and consistent with the buds from Hanami being around 55 m/s using the .01s timeframe

In fact, I'd say it's possible mach 3 > Sukuna and Gojo's combat speed
Click to expand...
Guacamolefletcher said:
NGL people might have to change me from big subsonic to big superhuman. I'd say superhuman is consistent even with the projection sorcery punch barrages being slow as f*ck, yet they're still relevant to even someone like "physically gifted" Maki

vsbattles.fandom.com

Hanami's Retrosonic Buds

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Consistent with those metas, and slower than I remembered. Feels bad but JJK was even slower than I thought the second time around. Bros' are just slow as f*ck
Click to expand...
jujutsu-kaisen-nanami-kento.gif
 
Giannysmag said:
The fact that in a few weeks you went from pushing the MHS meta to the superhuman meta is both kind off admirable and really funny
Click to expand...
trust me it's just bias. Eva only started reading JJK so he could debunk arguments, then he ended up liking it and was solid in his opinions of it for awhile, but then he got the Naoya scaling and just started glazing Naoya non-stop. Now he's just been on this rapid downward spiral for speed scaling where every time the conclusion is "and that's why Naoya is top tier and / or best in the verse for speed, and so far above everyone else!" It's nothing but agenda scaling, and it's obvious.
 
Guacamolefletcher said:
NGL people might have to change me from big subsonic to big superhuman. I'd say superhuman is consistent even with the projection sorcery punch barrages being slow as f*ck, yet they're still relevant to even someone like "physically gifted" Maki

vsbattles.fandom.com

Hanami's Retrosonic Buds

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Consistent with those metas, and slower than I remembered. Feels bad but JJK was even slower than I thought the second time around. Bros' are just slow as f*ck
Click to expand...
Subsonic to Supersonic I can take because I think Gege actually does try and be down to earth when giving numbers for anything. Even if I think they have a habit of showing stuff that pushes things above those speeds.

And while I don't really agree with you a lot of the time, I do think at the end of the day your logic and understanding of the series is evolving and solid from your point of view.

All of that said, just putting these characters around superhuman is absolute dogshit and nonsensical. I need you to explain this one
 
Rosa said:
trust me it's just bias. Eva only started reading JJK so he could debunk arguments, then he ended up liking it and was solid in his opinions of it for awhile, but then he got the Naoya scaling and just started glazing Naoya non-stop. Now he's just been on this rapid downward spiral for speed scaling where every time the conclusion is "and that's why Naoya is top tier and / or best in the verse for speed, and so far above everyone else!" It's nothing but agenda scaling, and it's obvious.
Click to expand...
I dont trust anyone who's main agenda is Nayoa
Sir_Marvulous said:
Sorcery fight tier translation
Click to expand...
Warlock Squabble
 
I just did a rough calc for this feat:

Naoya is punching at Maki. Each punch is happening in 1/24th of a second, and the entire move is moving from fully extending his arm to punch to bringing it back to his right shoulder, kinda like this


So somoene's wing span = their height, roughly.
Arm length and shoulder to shoulder length are all roughly 1/3 of wing span, so 1/3 of height roughly.

Naoya is about as tall as Choso, so 1.74 m height.

Assuming this is what he's doing, Naoya is roughly moving the green line here in 1/24th of a second, as that is what projection sorcery does:


So he's roughly moving his fist through 2/3 of his height. Sice it's an arc motion, **** it, lets highball it to 4/5ths of his height. That distance is crossed in exactly 1/24th of a second, so the math is:

Speed = (4/5 {percentage of his height each punch hypothetically moved} * 1.74 m) / (1/24) = 33.408 m/s

So being generous, eyeballing, we get Naoya's attack speed vs Maki here at 33.408 m/s, and this can't even be debated because we know that the timeframe is exactly 1/24th of a second.

TLDR: Naoya Zen'in saw it OK to attack Maki, who he already knew wiped out the rest of the Hei filled with capable semi-grade 1 to grade 1 sorcerers with generously Superhuman+ speeds.

That is just absurd, and consistent with other things in the series, like those Hanami retrosonic bud calcs. Also I'm not saying this should be everyone, but like your average grade 1 shouldn't break past 200 m/s considering this. It's my explanation @Duedate8898.

Also the idea would be that anytime anyone reacts to a supersonic attack, the thing is moving predictably in a straight line, and the preson who dodges or reacts to said supersonic attack is doing so from a distance, and temporarily uses reinforcement to amp their movement speed to be capable of dodging said object, while normally having attack speed and reactions far inferior, staying consistent with this terrible attack speed being relevant to grade 1s.

Like Kenjaku's feats of reacting to PB, they're from about 10 meters way. So the reaction time to react to that is around 343 / 10 or about 34 m/s reaction times, but that's still enough to temporarily amp oneself to near transonic movement speed in time to dodge, while just having those 34 m/s reaction and combat speeds. I concede this is very like theory-esque territory, and you could say the superhuman speeds shit is just outliers or something, but I'd say it's an OK personal offsite interpretation. As for the other feats, like Maki reacting to rubber bullets, the rubber bullets could be as slow as you want, and Gege said the feats were exaggerated anyways so we probably shouldn't drwa the most conclusions from this stuff.

Also stuff like Maki tagging mach 3 fits into this because once she knew the mach 3 speeds were coming at a straight line, super predictably, she could unleash an unusually fast punch since she knew the mach 3 speeds were coming and where they were coming, as to not say it's inconsistent panneling which is valid too.
 
Last edited:
Guacamolefletcher said:
I'm saying like worst case scenario, this could explain how he can dodge it at close range while being subsonic.

He just amps himself to temporarily nigh-PB speed while having subsonic combat speeds. Considering this, I probably downgrade my personal scaling of JJK characters' speeds to like superhuman+ to around 100 m/s subsonic combat speeds for the top tiers, with only people like Sukuna or Gojo reaching Supersonic speeds and Mach 3 Naoya as a god tier, which can only be tagged by his predictable straight-line, no maneuverability, low reactions and combat speed but high attack speed movement.

I'd say superhuman grade 1s is consistent with the .01 second delay shit, and consistent with the buds from Hanami being around 55 m/s using the .01s timeframe

In fact, I'd say it's possible mach 3 > Sukuna and Gojo's combat speed
Click to expand...
You gotta let this go dude
Gojo and Sukuna might not be ftl or mhs+, but they are definitely not below mach 3
 
Guacamolefletcher said:
I just did a rough calc for this feat:

Naoya is punching at Maki. Each punch is happening in 1/24th of a second, and the entire move is moving from fully extending his arm to punch to bringing it back to his right shoulder, kinda like this


So somoene's wing span = their height, roughly.
Arm length and shoulder to shoulder length are all roughly 1/3 of wing span, so 1/3 of height roughly.

Naoya is about as tall as Choso, so 1.74 m height.

Assuming this is what he's doing, Naoya is roughly moving the green line here in 1/24th of a second, as that is what projection sorcery does:


So he's roughly moving his fist through 2/3 of his height. Sice it's an arc motion, **** it, lets highball it to 4/5ths of his height. That distance is crossed in exactly 1/24th of a second, so the math is:

Speed = (4/5 {percentage of his height each punch hypothetically moved} * 1.74 m) / (1/24) = 33.408 m/s

So being generous, eyeballing, we get Naoya's attack speed vs Maki here at 33.408 m/s, and this can't even be debated because we know that the timeframe is exactly 1/24th of a second.

TLDR: Naoya Zen'in saw it OK to attack Maki, who he already knew wiped out the rest of the Hei filled with capable semi-grade 1 to grade 1 sorcerers with generously Superhuman+ speeds.

That is just absurd, and consistent with other things in the series, like those Hanami retrosonic bud calcs. Also I'm not saying this should be everyone, but like your average grade 1 shouldn't break past 200 m/s considering this. It's my explanation @Duedate8898.

Also the idea would be that anytime anyone reacts to a supersonic attack, the thing is moving predictably in a straight line, and the preson who dodges or reacts to said supersonic attack is doing so from a distance, and temporarily uses reinforcement to amp their movement speed to be capable of dodging said object, while normally having attack speed and reactions far inferior, staying consistent with this terrible attack speed being relevant to grade 1s.

Like Kenjaku's feats of reacting to PB, they're from about 10 meters way. So the reaction time to react to that is around 343 / 10 or about 34 m/s reaction times, but that's still enough to temporarily amp oneself to near transonic movement speed in time to dodge, while just having those 34 m/s reaction and combat speeds. I concede this is very like theory-esque territory, and you could say the superhuman speeds shit is just outliers or something, but I'd say it's an OK personal offsite interpretation. As for the other feats, like Maki reacting to rubber bullets, the rubber bullets could be as slow as you want, and Gege said the feats were exaggerated anyways so we probably shouldn't drwa the most conclusions from this stuff.

Also stuff like Maki tagging mach 3 fits into this because once she knew the mach 3 speeds were coming at a straight line, super predictably, she could unleash an unusually fast punch since she knew the mach 3 speeds were coming and where they were coming, as to not say it's inconsistent panneling which is valid too.
Click to expand...

xenopixels-geometry-defense-gdf.gif
 
Guacamolefletcher said:
I just did a rough calc for this feat:

Naoya is punching at Maki. Each punch is happening in 1/24th of a second, and the entire move is moving from fully extending his arm to punch to bringing it back to his right shoulder, kinda like this


So somoene's wing span = their height, roughly.
Arm length and shoulder to shoulder length are all roughly 1/3 of wing span, so 1/3 of height roughly.

Naoya is about as tall as Choso, so 1.74 m height.

Assuming this is what he's doing, Naoya is roughly moving the green line here in 1/24th of a second, as that is what projection sorcery does:


So he's roughly moving his fist through 2/3 of his height. Sice it's an arc motion, **** it, lets highball it to 4/5ths of his height. That distance is crossed in exactly 1/24th of a second, so the math is:

Speed = (4/5 {percentage of his height each punch hypothetically moved} * 1.74 m) / (1/24) = 33.408 m/s

So being generous, eyeballing, we get Naoya's attack speed vs Maki here at 33.408 m/s, and this can't even be debated because we know that the timeframe is exactly 1/24th of a second.

TLDR: Naoya Zen'in saw it OK to attack Maki, who he already knew wiped out the rest of the Hei filled with capable semi-grade 1 to grade 1 sorcerers with generously Superhuman+ speeds.
Click to expand...

dude the average punch speed of an MMA fighter is 18,01 m/s are you really gonna claim that mr 24 times amp to speed is not even twice the average? Like really?
 
Last edited:
I remember I was gonna make a big blog for the scaling metas to see which are more accurate but then Sukuna got hit by sound, Kashimo died, and Kenjaku just said bye and after that I became hard locked in supersonic
 
Projection sorcery allowing a sorcerer to move in 24 frame increments doesn't mean that each punch needs to be within a singular frame given we don't know how it's restricting / defining "movement", so when we see them send a barrage of punches it's perfectly consistent for several punches to be within a single frame - not each punch is moving within the time frame of 0.042 seconds.

Furthermore, let's assume it is the case it's a punch per 0.042 seconds, you'd be disregarding NUMEROUS accepted calcs and feats for sub-Toji tiers being above superhuman speeds for the sake of a single calc? How is this any better logically founded than the FTL JJK meta you hate so much? If anything yours is worse given Maki isn't even tagged by these punches, it's not even a necessary anti-feat. So what's more likely, for a verse to have a mountain of outliers and have its speed scaling decided by 1 calc or for Naoya to miscalculate his speed? Once again, this is all assuming the foundations of your calc are true.
 
Rosa said:
No evidence of this
Click to expand...
Naoya makes 24 movements every second.

Maki was punching each movement, and if you count the number of punches he was making, it matches up with what she was counting at the time

- This explains why once he makes a movement, he needs to use a long-ass distance to correct his course, because the maximum distance he can cross in every movement is 343 m/s * (1/24) s or 14.29 meters
When projection sorcery is explained in Shibuya, it's explained that you have to pre-trace movements in 24fps:

- This is why it makes sense that when someone wants to move super fast, they use longer movements to still abide by the 24fps rule. Throwing 25 punches in 1 second doesn't abide by that 24fps rule. Neither does 1000 punches per second
Consistent with how long he moves each time:

- Like, yeah, just eyeballing the distance he moved once he slapped Maki, it looks like he moved 7 meters behind her and was moving 7 meters back, and all of that would fit into the 24fps rule

Rosa said:
Furthermore, let's assume it is the case it's a punch per 0.042 seconds, you'd be disregarding NUMEROUS accepted calcs and feats for sub-Toji tiers being above superhuman speeds for the sake of a single calc?
Click to expand...
It's not even just a single calc. it's the case for any punch baragge with projection jujutsu, which by lore happens in the series. in order to be, let's say 100% the speed of sound with a baragge of punches, each punch needs to cross 14 meters. This doesn't happen because Naoya and Naobito aren't that tall. In fact, now that I think about it the reason Naobito was faster than Naoya was probably that he's taller since it would allow him to cross more distance with each movement, though this might be too headcanon.
 
Arkenis said:
Jokes he says.... as if Sub rel Toji, and FTL purple weren't being calced and argued just three years ago
Click to expand...
dude some people argued for Rel bullets in another verse, there are always gonna be weird fellas, the main meta is.

low tiers: superhuman to low sub
mid tiers: sub to sub+
top tiers: sub+ to supersonic+
god tiers: hypersonic to hypersonic+
 
Sir_sun_man said:
dude some people argued for Rel bullets in another verse, there are always gonna be weird fellas, the main meta is.

low tiers: superhuman to low sub
mid tiers: sub to sub+
top tiers: sub+ to supersonic+
god tiers: hypersonic to hypersonic+
Click to expand...
Respectable. Now wheres your meta on power
 
Guacamolefletcher said:
Naoya makes 24 movements every second.

Maki was punching each movement, and if you count the number of punches he was making, it matches up with what she was counting at the time

- This explains why once he makes a movement, he needs to use a long-ass distance to correct his course, because the maximum distance he can cross in every movement is 343 m/s * (1/24) s or 14.29 meters
When projection sorcery is explained in Shibuya, it's explained that you have to pre-trace movements in 24fps:

- This is why it makes sense that when someone wants to move super fast, they use longer movements to still abide by the 24fps rule. Throwing 25 punches in 1 second doesn't abide by that 24fps rule. Neither does 1000 punches per second
Consistent with how long he moves each time:

- Like, yeah, just eyeballing the distance he moved once he slapped Maki, it looks like he moved 7 meters behind her and was moving 7 meters back, and all of that would fit into the 24fps rule


It's not even just a single calc. it's the case for any punch baragge with projection jujutsu, which by lore happens in the series. in order to be, let's say 100% the speed of sound with a baragge of punches, each punch needs to cross 14 meters. This doesn't happen because Naoya and Naobito aren't that tall. In fact, now that I think about it the reason Naobito was faster than Naoya was probably that he's taller since it would allow him to cross more distance with each movement, though this might be too headcanon.
Click to expand...

yea I already precogged this response and wrote a debunk
 
Sir_sun_man said:
dude the average punch speed of an MMA fighter is 11,01 m/s are you really gonna claim that mr 24 times amp to speed is barely 3 times the average? Like really?
Click to expand...
It's never been a 24 times amp. Also the reaction times for the MMA fighters are still around .2 - .1 seconds, and considering how long it takes for them to accelerate to that speed because they're just humans at the end of the day, it's entirely reasonable.

Rosa said:
yea I already precogged this response and wrote a debunk
Click to expand...
Your consistency argument doesn't work because I already adressed the counters. Someone can physically push themselves to move faster than they can react in 1 meter (combat speed definition), while having speeds below that.

Calcs are based on assumptions while this meta is the most correct, being based upon lore itself

Sir_sun_man said:
oh an btw a kick from a professional fighter comes out to around 27 m/s

Naoya is barely kick speed confirmed.
Click to expand...
This is the peak speed of said professional fighters though. It doesn't work out for their average speed, which is way lower. Also again, not my fault that Gege made it so that someone who's super fast animates their movement in a frame rate where even gaming is hard for normal humans.

I can't play csgo at 24fps. Not my fault that Gege made movement that is possible to be animated in 24fps can be pre-planned to be capable of reaching superhuman speeds and keep up with grade 1s
 
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