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I agree for AE.
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Tensura Web Novel Revision : Abstract Existence Type 1 For Rimuru
- Thread starter Sisyphusx
- Start date
- Status
donegbe
He/Him- 140
- 46
I agree
donegbe
He/Him- 140
- 46
Turn null is negative energy in the verse, the opposite of everything and should not be mixed with other energies.
The soul is mentioned as energy that surrounds the core, so yes it is abstract
- 1,802
- 5,310
agreed
- 18,393
- 14,323
I am sorry, but I don't see anywhere it says Energy is a made-up concept.
May I see the proof?
- 2,083
- 1,143
Great Spirits being concepts and masses of energy
- 18,393
- 14,323
No, it is stated they are masses of energy, masses of energy = concept =/= energy
- 4,299
- 2,800
Yes, which is what is being described in the scans mentioned.
Your leaving out the major factor listed in AA. It's not enough to just be incorporeal, but you actually have to be abstract and have reliable statements or feats that the character has immortality or regeneration stemming from being that concept. In this case, your just incorporeal, as there is no evidence provided that your an abstraction nor do they gain anything from existing as an abstraction.
- 18,393
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I just need “energy = abstract" evidence. That's it. The soul is already a lump of information that is abstract in verse. It is fine.
- 18,393
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This will result in AE type 2.
Peak
He/Him- 2,136
- 927
this makes no sense, the concept itself is a mass of energy, it is not a mass of energy that is linked to another concept, if a concept is described as being a mass of energy, then that energy theoretically should also be conceptual, at least I think so
- 18,393
- 14,323
Nope. You are misunderstanding something, the mass of energy is not energy itself.
Also embodying abstract is the textbook definition of AE type 2.
Peak
He/Him- 2,136
- 927
This is not abstract existence type 2, in fact I'm going to change what I mean
the great spirits are concepts and are an energy, so I ask again, is it possible to be a concept and not be abstract? This is not type 2 abstract existence because the great spirits are not dependent on other concepts, they are the concept itself, if concepts are abstract by nature, then great spirits would be abstract existence type 1 even if they are energy, that's what I meant, now if even though they are conceptual they are not considered abstract because they have energy, then they shouldn't even exist abstract type 2
but honestly, for me if a concept is formed by a concept then it is proof that the energy that shapes them are abstract too, that's my opinion, if energy is not abstract then abstract existence type 2 must be removed from all profiles, as they have this because they are dependent on the great spirits
Peak
He/Him- 2,136
- 927
Yes, energy composes non-physical things too, so I wouldn't see it as illogical to have abstract energy, especially since energy composes a concept
- 18,393
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That is my point. I have no clue how it is even abstract type 2 at all.
Hence, I asked if energy is indeed a concept, and yet no one brought the evidence.
Your question was if it is AE 1 to embody a mass of energy as abstract, and I said it is not. It is AE type 2 (look at the difference).
Peak
He/Him- 2,136
- 927
the evidence is in the OP
the great spirits are also formed by energy despite being concepts, energy is not an abstraction normally, but if verse specified that energy composes concepts, then that energy should also be abstract
yes i understood that and so i changed my question, if energy is part of a conceptual existence (again, it is not another existence that is conceptual, but the concept itself is formed by energy), doesn't that prove that energy is abstract? It is not type 2 because the great spirits are not dependent on a concept but are the concept itself
Peak
He/Him- 2,136
- 927
What is your opinion on this? Only the two of you disagree for now and as it has been shown that concepts are energy so maybe you may have changed your mind
Sisyphusx
He/Him- 418
- 150
- Thread starter
- #62
Uh? This is already in the OP but i'll mention it again
"The two were born as a conceptual existence with a pure energy body without a physical body"
"Demons are an existence like spirits or angels. It seemed to be an existence that received power from the spirit of Darkness, and specialized in the demonic attribute.
Similarly, the Angel specialized in the holy attribute of the spirit of Light, the exception to this seemed to be called a spirit."
the first para shows that they are AE and not just incorporeal it also says "Demons are an existence like spirits or angels" (the "pure energy" here is also abstract in nature)
for your other argument which says that demons and angles don't gain any ability (or immo/regen) from their respective concepts, it's stated in the 2nd para of OP itself that "received power from the spirit of Darkness, and specialized in the demonic attribute" "The Angel specialized in the holy attribute of the spirit of Light"
it clearly states that they recieve powers from their concept, are same existences as spirits and also mentions the word attribute that is "a quality or feature regarded as a characteristic or inherent part of someone or something."
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- 129
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Honestly there are more non-physical energy in Tensura than physical.
1. Negative energy - it is not physical but is the power in which the progress of the universe and time itself are retuned to beginning. (Is able to end the concept of time in a universe)
2. Positive energy - the opposite of negative energy in which the progress of the universe and time is increased
3. Primordial energy/Turn Null - energy that does not exist but can create concepts and Worlds
4. Power of the soul/Will power - energy that comes from the nucleus and surrounds the soul. possibly fuels Primitive Magic
5. energy that controls causality(?) - the energy that Dagruel talked about when battling Shion in Time stop when all physical energies were frozen.
power of the soul/will power, and primordial energy is honestly all you need to know energies in Tensura can abstract
1. Negative energy - it is not physical but is the power in which the progress of the universe and time itself are retuned to beginning. (Is able to end the concept of time in a universe)
2. Positive energy - the opposite of negative energy in which the progress of the universe and time is increased
3. Primordial energy/Turn Null - energy that does not exist but can create concepts and Worlds
4. Power of the soul/Will power - energy that comes from the nucleus and surrounds the soul. possibly fuels Primitive Magic
5. energy that controls causality(?) - the energy that Dagruel talked about when battling Shion in Time stop when all physical energies were frozen.
power of the soul/will power, and primordial energy is honestly all you need to know energies in Tensura can abstract
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I will stay neutral then. But as I see it, energy is indeed composing concepts that are abstract. But also, despite the fact that great spirits are formed by energy, demons are formed by the mass of energy.
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I still disagree, the only statement of being a "conceptual existence" is immediately contradicted by every other scan which calls them masses of energy or souls.
Peak
He/Him- 2,136
- 927
hmm I see, do you think limited abstract existence would solve this problem?
Peak
He/Him- 2,136
- 927
mass just means quantity, not that it is physical, if Fuse stated that concepts are made of energy, then this energy is also conceptual, and as bahaha said, there are several energy
but that's ok, we can wait for the moderators opinion
- 18,393
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I would give it possibly in my all honesty. The conceptual existence statement is still there, and it has been stated multiple times (ones, to spirits and one to demons).
Peak
He/Him- 2,136
- 927
I was actually corrected that only demons and angels are conceptual, spiritual life forms are not, they can achieve abstract existence through information, but they are not conceptual
anyway, let's wait for the moderators now
- 18,393
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Mhm, spiritual forms are indeed AE 1 since they are “abstract” through information, but about demons, I am really doubting tho. Seems possibly for me.
Peak
He/Him- 2,136
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valid, we need someone from the staff to judge this
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We are not talking about soul. We are talking about the mass of energy.
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Rimuru absorbed and analysed angels and demons, but is their any evidence that proves that he used said analysis to change his being into an abstract one like theirs?
Peak
He/Him- 2,136
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yes, this is in Rimuru's profile in the physiology part, but for some reason it only has type 2 abstract existence even though it is a conceptual existence
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Can I see scans instead of summaries that prove he can and did do this?
Lesser_Goddess_Alexia
She/Her- 705
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Any scans that show it's capable of copying something of the likes of Abstract Existence?
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